Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Muman, this is not an issue of "Sephardi vs. Ashkenazi, who's better" or "who's more accurate" .... Nobody is discrediting the Jewish mesorah (as a whole) of Ashkenazim or questioning the backgrounds or Jewish ancestry of any of these groups.
The fact remains, that the pronunciation of Hebrew by BOTH of these groups has it's problems. Notice, Sephardi Panther cited the TEYMANIM - These are the Yemenite Jews - who maintained a tradition of pronunciation unique from BOTH of the current Ashkenaz and Sephardi pronunciation, although in more ways similar to Sephardic. The bottom line is what is the correct way to speak our holy language. Not who is right or wrong or who is the best or closest. The point is, since the Hebrew language is the holy tongue and so important as it was crafted, let's try to adhere to its actual guidelines, be the masters of our own national language, and pronounce it properly as God intended.
Errors and mistakes crept into the mesorah for pronunciation by different groups in different areas, and this was a natural historical process, when people ended up in places where the common language had sounds that were different from Hebrew or didn't contain some of the unique sounds of Hebrew. This is why Ashkenazic Jews only pronounced waw as an undotted Bet, a bh or V sound, because in Ashkenaz and Europe they did not produce this sound W in the local languages, for x amount of time, enough that it passed out from the spoken dialect of the Jews in their prayers, etc. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging these mistakes and adjusting accordingly, and the work of linguists and grammaticists elucidates the proper Hebrew format. Chief among them is the great Grammarian and one of the greatest, most learned rabbis of all time, the Saadiah Gaon. He gave us explicit instructions and explanations regarding pronunciation that other later sources did not necessarily take time to explain. And given the early era he lived in, he can be relied upon for the bulk of this linguistic analysis.
muman613:
Yes, why would the Torah be read in Arabic? I don't know what Jewish communities would adopt such a language... Why not read it in Greek or Yiddish?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 13, 2009, 03:30:46 PM ---http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/Eng/print.asp?id=3240
Hebrew pronunciation
Rabbi Elchanan Lewis
Question:
I’ve been wondering for a long time about the correct accent to use when speaking hebrew and leining etc. on the on hand Ashkenaz differentiates between Patach and Kamatz etc. which would appear to be better but then I heard the Sefaradi is better because there are contraditions in certain songs with the Ashkenaz one and Sefaradi is used as speaking Hebrew in Israel and its more authentic....so which one is the best or most correct? I know this isn’t the most important aspect about davening etc. but I learnt that the Vilna Gaon was very particular about speaking properly and correctly and I feel that it would help me and that it is important to me to be able to speak in the best way possible.
Answer:
The Poskim can't reach an agreement on what is the best and most correct pronunciation (it seems the Yemenite Jews have the most accurate version), all however agree that one should not change his family tradition.
(See Igrot Moshe OC 3 5, Yabia Omer 6 11, Heichal Yitzchak OC 3)
--- End quote ---
Why not? In reality, there is no harm in doing so. And there is a choice between saying something a person knows is wrong, but to maintain a family tradition of saying it incorrectly, vs. adopting the correct way, which there is no sin or anything wrong in doing, in fact it has great merit because it is the true way of connecting to lashon hakodesh and bringing out the beauty of the language. People take on new chumrahs all the time that my grandfather never heard of, and that a person's family never kept, so the whole idea about "not changing family custom" is not entirely true.
--- Quote ---One should also note that an attempt to change a long practiced pronunciation may cause a Kavanah distraction which by all means is more important than the pronunciation itself.
--- End quote ---
I learned to pronounce the waw as a "vav" as a kid in hebrew school, yet I changed to a waw in my davening pronunciation, and find it is so much more natural and a more flowing way to speak and daven. I have never had a distraction in kavanah based on pronunciation.
--- Quote --- which all Rabbis agree is the best minhag to keep...
--- End quote ---
It is always a mistake to say "all rabbis" Muman, because that statement is not true. Rabbi Daweed Bar Hayim is a rabbi, and he does NOT agree that the best minhag to keep is a family tradition of mistaken pronunciation. But you are of course free to choose to say whatever you want, even if you insist on Ashkenazic pronunciation error like so many others do. Just don't mislead people into the idea that no rabbi on earth believes one should adopt proper pronunciation if he thinks one way is more correct than another.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 13, 2009, 06:58:59 PM ---Yes, why would the Torah be read in Arabic? I don't know what Jewish communities would adopt such a language... Why not read it in Greek or Yiddish?
--- End quote ---
Ones who lived in Arabic speaking areas of the Middle east. That of course includes Yemenites who lived in Yemen which is on the Arabian peninsula. Why would one read it in Yiddish except that that is the vernacular spoken by Jews in a given place? Well, same reason for Arabic. People knew and understood at least one if not all 3 of these languages.... And especially in Teyman, they were probably fluent in all 3, if they were literate, otherwise probably knew and could speak 2 of the 3 at least....
muman613:
Im sorry for saying "All Rabbis"... As always such a statement is an exaggeration. I meant to say that most Rabbis have said that keeping a family custom is important. The problem is that I enjoy davening with a minyan which sings some of the prayers, and if I was using this pronunciation it would be very distracting to others {I believe}. If this is the 'correct' pronunciation then some Rabbis should proclaim it as such and then the Jewish education system should be adapted to teach this correct pronunciation.
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