"I don't believe Nixon was a foaming at the mouth, rabid anti-Semite.
I'm quite sure he didn't like Jews as a whole, but I think alot of that was due to the fact that Jews as a whole were regarded (and still are) as leftists and irrevocable supporters of the Democrat party. In all honesty, it's hard to say he was unjustified in feeling that way. After all, groups like JTF are an exception to the rule, and dwarfed in magnitude by the multitude of leftist, self-hating Jewish organizations."
how the hell the fact that many jews in the usa vote for the democrats over him is a good reason not to like em just as any other people living in america?
after all , the jewish vote dont really turn the tide of votes in the usa, its one of the smallest miniorities in the usa ,if not the smallest
and why should the jews need to vote for him , if a democrat canidate was more proisrael then he was? jews in usa should first do aliyah but if they choose to stay then at least they should vote for what is good for jews, just like an italian should vote for whats good for italians etc.
all american many peoples do that , so why should he treated them any diffrence (with irrelvance to wheater they should have voted for the democrats or not)
"As far as the YK war goes:
If Nixon did indeed pressure Golda Meir not to launch a pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian islamonazis, "
come on ... of course he did , and they did it back in 67 as well , the only diffrence was , back then , israel didn't care what u.s goverment thougth was right to do (or to be more precise , THE WHOLE IDF HIGH COMMAND TOLD P.M LEVI ESHKOL THAT HE SHOULD START THE WAR OR ACCEPT THEIR RESIGNATION, to eshkol's credit, it must be said though , that after accepting their ultimatum and starting the war , he actually closed the phone to the white house begging to stop the war untill they punished syria and conquered the golan as well )
"that does NOT in any way absolve Meir's failure to have Israeli forces at the Suez Canal and the BarLev line on high alert and prepared to repel any Egyptian attempt to cross the canal."
there were some forces , unfurtunatly ,not as much as was needed .
"Israeli intelligence was also caught off guard. Although Meir was warned of Egyptian mobilization and the impending attack, the warning came late and the scope of the attack was underestimated."
in reality , all knew war was imminent ,it was the bad choice of listening to america and care for world opinion instead of common sense , on the part of israeli goverment
"Additionally, the IDF underestimated the capabilities of the Egyptian army to cross the canal and sustain an attack."
you can say their was a euphoria in the high command, but not understimate of the enemy , in fact , as you just mentioned , there was heavy fortifacations , and they even orgenised a plan to set the all canal on fire if the egyptians would try to cross it , which never came into action , unfurtunately
the army was well trained , the only problem was the absence of the majority of the forces from the war zones in the first critical hours
" The huge sand dunes constructed on the eastern side of the canal, which buffered the BarLev line, were thought to be impregnable. The Egyptian use of high pressure water cannons fed from the waters of the canal to dissolve the sand barriers came as a tactical surprise. One of the few examples of Muslims actually having brains."
one exemples of ONE muslim who uses his brains , more accuratley (it was an idea of young military student )
look , we didn't thought the arabs are incapable of thinking , or that they dont know how to fight ... that would be a lie ... the arabs knew how to fight well
its like when in your own country, majority of the people actually belive that the iraqi's in operation desert storm didn't knew how to fight .... thats wrong , they had good equipment , vaterance , and they trained for years , in the few battles in which american forces actually fougth face to face with iraqi troops , it was a bitter war ... but most people think they were just moving targets because thats how the show was "directed" by the media, and didn't realised the iraqi's was so "weak" because of electronic warfare screens and under the cover of those ,1000-1500 sorties per weak delivering tons upon tons of bombs over their heads .
we did not underestimate their capabilities , i often correct people who thougth the the arabs did not know how to fight , or thinks it was because they had lack of good equipment /knowlege on how to oparate it (Which is not true , unlike today , back then , they had better equipment ,and they were heavily trained )
in reality , our g-d helped us , and we destroyed very strong armies , some of the biggest armies the world ever knew ...
"Once Egyptian forces had successfully crossed the canal, the IDF and IAF were once again caught off guard by the effectiveness of the Egyptian attack. The Egyptian attack was better disciplined and more coordinated than one would have anticipated based on thier past performance."
its indeed was a surprise they could carry over so many tanks and troops to the sinai side ... because they 1. deceptively entered more troops without noticing in all the pre-war days 2. used modern soviet crossing bridges that apparentley no one really knew they had (the soviets went out of their way in giving them their best equipment for this one )
(even with this , it should be known that israel had developed its own "crossing bridge" which was supposed to , IF the actuall amount of forces was all their and
halting the egyptian attack , To allow tanks to move the bridge to the war zones and enter massive forces unto eygpt heartland ... and they even tried to use it to counter attack , But the phase of the war was much quicker then the slow moving of that behemoth steel bridge which was meant to be used as one of the many means thougth of to quickly grant us victory , IF WE WOULD ATTACKED FIRST )
" Most importantly, the protective 'umbrella' that the SAM batteries and TOW anti-tank munitions provided - against Israeli aerial and armored counter attacks - came as a HUGE surprise."
because of american pressure to cease fire and not continue to attack the eygptian forces and their soviet helps , during the war of attrition , WHICH IN FACT , GAVE them the ability to move them all there ,without israeli war planes destroying them before being deployed !
" Israeli armored and aerial counter-assaults to stem the tide and rescue the beseiged forces of the BarLev were thoroughly squashed. "
like i said , it was indeed like fighting the red army itself, they used many top-notch technologies and in great numbers
"The IDF was somewhat slow to adjust to these new battlefield innovations and developments. It was only after the Egyptians (at the behest of Assad and Syria) overextended their attack and left their protective SAM 'umbrella', that Israel was able to reverse the tide of battle."
the only reason for this was , that defeating the syrians was much more urgent Since they were at the gates of the heartland of israel ,while the eygptians were afraid to leave the protection of the sam batteries and were very far away from jewish cities and large pupulations . israel decided that it must concentrate efforts , and doing so , crushed the syrian attack(hence "reverse the tide of battle" , and only because of that the eygptian were so pressured to bring their own dustruction , because the eygptians was to be targeted soon after either way
in reality , it was the fact that israel actually entered through bloody battles and crossed the canal , when those sams were destroyed , Then when actually the eygptians really lost the war , cause from there on , they were sitting ducks for the iaf , and eventually , beseiged at their strongest point , And humilated by an advancing israeli army into their heartland (which caused the dismissal of their cheif of armed forces)
" By that time many Israeli tanks and planes had been destroyed and Jewish soldiers lost."
in the first day of the war , the egyptians only faced basically 436 soldirs ,56 tanks of the 14 hativa and 7 artilliery batteries (compared to their 5 infantry devisions and two field armies including 1700 tanks and 2000 artillery cannons , supported by many sams )
the first days of the war were indeed hard , but it should be noted , that a "defence" line was achieved , the extent of the egyptian forces crossing the canal and the sams was not known , that is what caused those losses in the first days
"The US airlift was crucial to replenish exhausted supplies and sustain Israel's fighting ability. It's importance should not be diminished, and Jews should be thankful it arrived. "
No one is saying that this precioues ammu's wasn't needed , However , we did have an alternative ... the americans did not want to give it at first , and kissinger went out of his way to keep it that way . make no mistake , if this wasn't sent , either we would get some elsewhere (we're talking about ammunition mainly, usa refused to give israel tanks , and i am not sure if new war planes was given in that time, +israel managaed already to build many israeli planes called nesher besides the american planes we used) and do whatever possible with what we manufactured ourselvs back then , and if that wasn't enough , we would have used nuclear and chimical weapons
"The airlift came quickly"
not true at all , they stalled it (some say untill the point israel started arming nukes)
" and it was huge. "
indeed , when it finally came
"Nixon undoubtably played a large role in making that happen. "
nixon only played a large role in stoping the stall of kissinger when it was crystal clear to the americans they do wanne do this
the egyptians and syrians did not have that problem , because the russians and the entire arab world (and even n.korea) supported them with cash and arms in a huge airlift of their own !
"No, Nixon didn't help save Israel out of a love for the Jewish State or the Jewish people."
unless he went and fougth himself , i wouldn't call that saving ,like i said , in many of those battle's , no "magic weapons" would do any diffrence , only strong will to win, bravery , and secreifise ...
and like i said , we had other alternatives
and with all due respact i am not sure how aware most americans including you , to the how big was the extent of the israeli role in bringing the soviet union down eventually
we should have recieved those arms much sooner , soley by that fact ... we helped the americans much more then their leaders were willing to admit , and most of what they knew of soviet tech , came from us , most of what their (and the british ,french and other westren) intelligence knew of russian codes and communication , even blunt intilligence recived due to the many spys israel had in the ussr ... came from us
in a way , the american goverment and military owed us those arms , and failed to deliver them when it was most needed because of lack of intrest , EVEN THOUGH THIS WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE THE PRODUCT THEIR REQUEST of the israeli goverment not to attack first ! and even then , when they took the right decsion ...they still stalled
AND AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND , if it was up to nixon , he would never sent it , the only reason he did , was because of the pressure he recived from u.s politicians who tried to make him realize what is at stake , yet he failed to listen for days !
" Rather, he did so because he viewed the Egyptians as a proxy of the USSR and was fearful of the negative geo-political ramifications an Israeli defeat would have for America in the Mideast and worldwide. "
the fact he didn't mind the russians entering the region in the first place in the war of attrition , just shows you how much he was willing to go in neglecting american intrests
"The YK war ended with the Egyptian 3rd army surrounded, on the brink of annihilation. The Soviets were threatening unilateral intervention if Israel didn't stop and Nixon responded by putting US forces worldwide on the highest possible alert. Too bad Israel didn't finish the job anyway. "
that is true that the u.s forces would be thrown to a war against the ussr , if it would go down that way , But you should know that if ussr attacked israel , their big cities was all leveled by nukes and the rest was chimically exposed by ballistic missiles who could get there (and we did have missiles capable of getting there , mainly , for dealing with that type of treat )
and the only time the ussr dared fighting the israeli's and intervine back in the war of attrition , their humilation was great
"So although Nixon can never be regarded as a great friend of the Jews, or even if he was an anti-Semite, he did wind up playing an important role in assisting Israel "
us airlift was importent , i'm not sure if nixon deserve the credit for it. he was against it
" whatever his motives might have been. Strange how history can work that way."
his motives was to save the arab world from total destruction (it only takes about 50-60 nukes ....because of the way the arab pupilated area's are constructed )
"Or maybe it isn't strange. Maybe it's the hand of HaShem at work."
the hand of g-d was there either way
Topic: How Richard Nixon Saved Israel But Got No Credit (Read 8335 times)