Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The Reason Why The Holocaust Happened
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 19, 2009, 07:23:34 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mo2388 on November 19, 2009, 01:10:24 AM ---The holocaust was a pre-punishment for our generation. Look at Israel now. How much of the population is actually religious? It's sick. Of all places you'd expect ISRAEL to follow Torah.
--- End quote ---
A "pre-punishment" ? That makes no sense.
We believe that we have free will. So how can there be a punishment for transgression not yet committed. This violates the foundations of Jewish belief. Please consult the Rambam.
I don't know what they are feeding you in your yeshiva, but please do not get carried away. It sounds like their hashkafot are all twisted if this is what you're learning there. Despite what they might be telling you there, chilonim eating shwarma in Israel are not the root of all the world's problems.
--- End quote ---
Not in Yeshiva now and I never learned anything like that. I wasn't stating a fact, I was just making a point at how stupid Israel is today. But you're wrong. Jews not following Torah ARE the root of all the world's problems. Whenever Jews sin, the world suffers.
Sefardic Panther:
--- Quote from: Hyades on November 19, 2009, 12:23:33 AM ----Israel by that time had no nukes.
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Need I remind you it was Jewish brain power that invented the Atom bomb. I’m sure there were some good scientists in Israel that could have managed it if they put their minds to it. Anyway they should have leveled europe when they finally did invent Jericho missles.
--- Quote from: Hyades on November 19, 2009, 12:23:33 AM ----Israel needed Europe in order to survive as a nation
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BS!!! Israel is G-d’s country and needs no one!!!
--- Quote from: Hyades on November 19, 2009, 12:23:33 AM ----If you really believe that HaShem sent down the holocaust to punish the decadent Euro-Jewry, so why should he want the Jews to act "an eye for an eye"? Would they have punished HaShem for this "punishment" received?
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If someone murders a bunch of people in cold blood should they get capital punishment or since everything is G-d’s will should they be pardoned? If we think like that no justice would ever be done. If anyone starts a war with us we must kill them or be killed. My point is why did europe rise up aginst us in the first place?
We have to understand the reason for this!! Why worship a god who turns the whole world against us and genocides us for absolutely no reason!? Bear in mind the Jews in russia and the Jews in the muslim countries were extremely loyal to the Torah. They never had a so called “reform” movment and they did’nt intermarry and assimilate in huge numbers and the Holocaust never affected them. Please watch the 3 videos I linked in my initial post above. They explain the whole thing a lot better than I can.
Also read this article –
http://www.puretorah.com/resources/G-d%20and%20the%20Holocaust%20(Rabbi%20B.%20Shafier).pdf
muman613:
I have never heard any idea about 'pre-punishment' and KWRBT is correct that there is a principle that we can only be punished for what we do personally, or we can be punished collectively as the Jewish people.... An example of this is the fact that Ishmael was saved in the desert when he was near death by a miracle. The angels were shocked because they knew that Ishmaels descendants would be evil arabs and yet he was not punished for what his descendants would become... This is the basis for the principle that we cannot be punished now for what will happen in the future.
But there is the concept of a curse lasting for three or four generations... I am not sure if that is what mo is referring to.
muman613:
SP,
I love Rabbi Bentzion Shaffier.... I got an automated call last Monday from him to tell me about his new book. I also listen to his Schmuzim each week... He also now has a show on A7...
muman613:
Remember from the 13 attribute the following:
Hashem, Hashem, Omnipotent, Merciful and Kind, Slow to Anger, with tremendous [abundance of] kindness and truth. He remembers deeds of love for thousands [of generations], forgiving mistakes, rebellion, and error. He does not clear [the unrepentant], but keeps in mind the mistakes of the fathers to their children and grandchildren, to the third and fourth generation. (Shemos 34:6-8)
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