Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The Reason Why The Holocaust Happened
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 18, 2009, 01:11:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mo2388 on November 18, 2009, 10:52:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on November 18, 2009, 12:27:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mo2388 on November 17, 2009, 10:28:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on November 17, 2009, 10:24:53 PM ---We must explain why the Holocaust happened. I felt obligated to make this post after reading the posts of an atheist Jew on this forum who said that reading about the Holocaust distanced him from Judaism. I want people like him to understand that such an attitude will only make things worse for themselves.
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I understand the reasons, but as a side note, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to truly comprehend anything Hashem does.
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But the Torah allows us to understand what he is saying to us... I dont think there is any argument about the Tochacha, that it implies that when the Jewish people turn away from Hashem, he will recipricly turn away from the Jewish people, and he will bring us lower and lower , generation after generation until we are nearly destroyed. There is no argument about it.... We recite this in the Shema 3 times a day....
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The Holocaust may not have been a punishment for that or for anything. Could have been anything.
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I agree. At the same time, it is good to take a positive lesson from something even if it wasn't the real "reason" or "explanation" of the thing. At the end of the day, that's all we can do with anything that happens in our lives.
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Yes.
Hyades:
Using Leviticus as an explanation for the Holocaust causes some strange feelings inside me. Knowing that there were so many believing and religious Jews who died principally in Poland makes me think if this is really the explanation. Maybe it is also because quranimals love to use Leviticus as an excuse to their wish to wipe out Judaism. As they say "G-d commanded already in the OT, that Muslims must wipe the Jews out of Eretz-Yisrael and punish them for being the way they are.
Also I cannot imagine that in those days Jews made Berlin their new Jerusalem. It is true that Berlin had on of the busiest and bustling Jewish communities in the world. But wasn't it due to the huge number of Jews living there?
I cannot accept someone saying that HaShem sent all this evil to punish Jewry in Europe. BUT: On the other hand I always wonder why the Holocaust could be POSSIBLE - and it is also hard to believe that a simple bad dictator and his adherents had so much "success" in their goal to almost wipe Judaism in Europe.
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I think its disgraceful that Israel did’nt atom bomb europe back in 1948. It should be eye for eye tooth for tooth genocide for genocide!!!"
This is a stupid comment. If HaShem had wanted Israel to do it, it would have happened. If you thought a bit more about your comments, then you would know the anwers on your own:
-Israel was busy defending itself from Muslims.
-Israel by that time had no nukes.
-Israel was not in a position to do so (neither is it today).
-Israel needed Europe in order to survive as a nation, if it had bombed Europe, they would have surely lost the war and then the Israel dream had been over.
-If you really believe that HaShem sent down the holocaust to punish the decadent Euro-Jewry, so why should he want the Jews to act "an eye for an eye"? Would they have punished HaShem for this "punishment" received?
The One and Only Mo:
The holocaust was a pre-punishment for our generation. Look at Israel now. How much of the population is actually religious? It's sick. Of all places you'd expect ISRAEL to follow Torah.
muman613:
It is important to try to understand the concept "Why the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper?". I have listened to this topic many times and study it when I can. We don't really understand the big picture of world events. The Jewish people, and all of humanity, can only comprehend a little slice of the big picture. We cannot understand why certain events happen. I cope with this concept every day because when I think of my brother, and I realize that he was taken at such a young age, by such evil people. But there is a reason for it although I am unable to really comprehend it. We learn that at the end of days, in the post-messianic times, we will all understand why each catastrophe had to happen. This understanding of why the holocaust happened will seem clear as day.
I believe it when I say the Shema, which I will quote the second pasuk here:
--- Quote ---13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto My commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your G-d, and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 that I will give the rain of your land in its season, the former rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. 15 And I will give grass in thy fields for thy cattle, and thou shalt eat and be satisfied. 16 Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; 17 and the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and He shut up the heaven, so that there shall be no rain, and the ground shall not yield her fruit; and ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you. 18 Therefore shall ye lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul; and ye shall bind them for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes. 19 And ye shall teach them your children, talking of them, when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 20 And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and upon thy gates; 21 that your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, upon the land which the LORD swore unto your fathers to give them, as the days of the heavens above the earth.
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http://www.learnhebrewprayers.com/special/shema.html
This doesn't mean that we are cursed or destined to be slaughtered. We Jews must look at our situation and what Torah says we should be striving to be. We need to make the rectification of our own lives to be more aware of Hashem in our lives. If we can do these things I believe that all Jews, even some who are far from us now, will come back and embrace the Jewish heritage. But I think we are in critical times. We just may loose a considerable portion of the Jewish people to the ravages of the Exile.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Mo2388 on November 19, 2009, 01:10:24 AM ---The holocaust was a pre-punishment for our generation. Look at Israel now. How much of the population is actually religious? It's sick. Of all places you'd expect ISRAEL to follow Torah.
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A "pre-punishment" ? That makes no sense.
We believe that we have free will. So how can there be a punishment for transgression not yet committed. This violates the foundations of Jewish belief. Please consult the Rambam.
I don't know what they are feeding you in your yeshiva, but please do not get carried away. It sounds like their hashkafot are all twisted if this is what you're learning there. Despite what they might be telling you there, chilonim eating shwarma in Israel are not the root of all the world's problems.
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