Elevator

[angryChineseKahanist]

What happens if during a Jewish holiday you walk in an elevator thinking the dumb goy next to you is going to push your floor for you but walks out and the door closes on you?
Do you wait? What if you wait six hours into the middle of the night and no one comes in? What if its an office building and you're the only one left? Do you wait until Monday?

[Zelhar]

Good question. I think it depends on how pious this Jew is. I think 99% of Jews in this situation would push the button.

[angryChineseKahanist]

OK.
Its a holiday and you want to go to the 100th fl. You see a stick on the floor. Can you use the stick to push the button?

[muman613]

OK.
Its a holiday and you want to go to the 100th fl. You see a stick on the floor. Can you use the stick to push the button?

Why would it matter if there is a stick on the floor? If you use the stick to push the button it is still a  melachot and thus prohibited.

[The One and Only Mo]

Good question. I think it depends on how pious this Jew is. I think 99% of Jews in this situation would push the button.

No, 99% percent of real orthodox Jews wouldn't push it. Technically, some poskim argue that shabbos elevators are muktzah. But in the case ACK brought down, it would be forbidden to press the button.

[cjd]

Honestly this is not a nice question to ask. The real question would why would a religious Jew put himself in the elevator in the first place during a time they should avoid such things. Lets face it the button needs to be pushed and using a stick is not going to make it better or worse. There must be a way to atone for an occasional transgression like being forced to work an elevator or not operating  it and being trapped inside for hours.

[The One and Only Mo]

Honestly this is not a nice question to ask. The real question would why would a religious Jew put himself in the elevator in the first place during a time they should avoid such things. Lets face it the button needs to be pushed and using a stick is not going to make it better or worse. There must be a way to atone for an occasional transgression like being forced to work an elevator or not operating  it and being trapped inside for hours.

It's called "not using them on Shabbos". Quite simple actually.

[cjd]

Honestly this is not a nice question to ask. The real question would why would a religious Jew put himself in the elevator in the first place during a time they should avoid such things. Lets face it the button needs to be pushed and using a stick is not going to make it better or worse. There must be a way to atone for an occasional transgression like being forced to work an elevator or not operating  it and being trapped inside for hours.

It's called "not using them on Shabbos". Quite simple actually.

My point exactly.

[angryChineseKahanist]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

[Rubystars]

This thread is kind of silly. I think most Jewish people would be smart enough not to get themselves into such a dilemma, although I did read that story I mentioned on Ask JTF about the family feeling as if they need to be stuck in their apartment on Shabbat because of the automatic security light in the hallway. I am curious if that actually happened to you too though with the milk, child, elevator, etc.

[Zelhar]

Generally orthodox Jews are well accustomed to "shabbat mode", so there is really no reason why they would be stuck on an elevator.

I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

For serious health conditions and emergencies it is permissible and even obligatory to violate shabbat.

[angryChineseKahanist]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

[angryChineseKahanist]

Again, I'm sorry if this turns people off.

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's more than that. Sorry if you don't get it.

[Zelhar]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by God. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by G-d. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

Fear of G-d and punishment are.

[Zelhar]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by G-d. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

Fear of G-d and punishment are.

What you write is correct, but where in Judaism do you see this type of rational: "Observe the shabat, or be damned to hell. Eat only kosher, or go to hell ..." ? Clearly this is not the spirit of Judaism.

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by G-d. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

Fear of G-d and punishment are.

What you write is correct, but where in Judaism do you see this type of rational: "Observe the shabat, or be damned to hell. Eat only kosher, or go to hell ..." ? Clearly this is not the spirit of Judaism.

Judaism has slipped to the point where people no longer care about doing mitzvos or observing the Torah. Therefore, we have to remind them whether or not they like it, there are severe consequences.

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by G-d. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

Fear of G-d and punishment are.

What you write is correct, but where in Judaism do you see this type of rational: "Observe the shabat, or be damned to hell. Eat only kosher, or go to hell ..." ? Clearly this is not the spirit of Judaism.

Judaism has slipped to the point where people no longer care about doing mitzvos or observing the Torah. Therefore, we have to remind them whether or not they like it, there are severe consequences.

Not to mention the Torah explicitly states punishments, sometimes within close proximity of the commandment.

[Zelhar]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by G-d. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

Fear of G-d and punishment are.

What you write is correct, but where in Judaism do you see this type of rational: "Observe the shabat, or be damned to hell. Eat only kosher, or go to hell ..." ? Clearly this is not the spirit of Judaism.

Judaism has slipped to the point where people no longer care about doing mitzvos or observing the Torah. Therefore, we have to remind them whether or not they like it, there are severe consequences.

Not to mention the Torah explicitly states punishments, sometimes within close proximity of the commandment.

But a worldly punishment like stoning...

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the books need to be updated. Everything uses electricity. How do you avoid it?
We're surrounded by electronic gadgets.
I mean, if you're surrounded by four homeboys and you see a taser on the table, do you stand there and die or use it?
What if you have a heart machine?

This is not to be insulting. I just think its silly that when I'm holding 50LBs of milk in one hand and a 2.5yo child in another that a Jewish couple would ask me to drop the child and push the button.

That happened to you?

A very few times. Not often. I just thought it was silly.
I mean if you spent your life defending old ladies, rescuing cats from trees, protecting children, I don't see how using electronic equipment would send someone to hell.

It's not about avoiding hell, it's about living according to the rules set by G-d. Fear of hell is not a main theme in Judaism.

Fear of G-d and punishment are.

What you write is correct, but where in Judaism do you see this type of rational: "Observe the shabat, or be damned to hell. Eat only kosher, or go to hell ..." ? Clearly this is not the spirit of Judaism.

Judaism has slipped to the point where people no longer care about doing mitzvos or observing the Torah. Therefore, we have to remind them whether or not they like it, there are severe consequences.

Not to mention the Torah explicitly states punishments, sometimes within close proximity of the commandment.

But a worldly punishment like stoning...

Yeah.....

[angryChineseKahanist]

But should we modernise it?
5000 years ago there was no such thing as running warm water or TV.
Where do they get the idea that electricity is unkosher?

[The One and Only Mo]

But should we modernise it?
5000 years ago there was no such thing as running warm water or TV.
Where do they get the idea that electricity is unkosher?

It's complicated. Just understand that it's been taken of care of.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What happens if during a Jewish holiday you walk in an elevator thinking the dumb goy next to you is going to push your floor for you but walks out and the door closes on you?
Do you wait? What if you wait six hours into the middle of the night and no one comes in? What if its an office building and you're the only one left? Do you wait until Monday?

Why does the goy have to be called "dumb" ?   Only dumb people use elevators?  I don't get it.

If it is forbidden for a Jew to use the elevator on Shabbat, one does not get in the elevator in the first place.   If it you're inside and it closes on you for whatever reason, you wait.    Why would no one else come and use the elevator?   And you could use that opportunity when someone else enters, to go out and use the stairs which you should have used from the beginning.   But lets say no one comes.   So you wait until motzei Shabbat which is Saturday night sundown.   After that you can do whatever you want.    He could sleep in the meantime I guess.

All that said, I know a rabbi who wrote a teshuvah (response letter to a question in Jewish law) where he asserts that the use of an elevator on Shabbat is PERMITTED!    And we are not talking a special "shabbat elevator" which is certainly permitted without any question about it.   He is talking about a standard elevator, which he holds is permissible for a Jew to use on Shabbat.   The person who asked him was someone whose wife was pregnant and they lived on the 35th floor of a building, I believe.  That motivated the question.  But the answer was that it's allowed.   I'll search for the link.