Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Don’t Be Weird Grow A Beard!!!
Sefardic Panther:
But hamas wants to kill all Jews including them.
Have Natory Qarta ever lived in an arab country? If anyone said their opinions to a Jew who lived in an arab country they would get punched in the face.
I think Natory Qarta should consider living in an arab coutry for 6 months. That would soon give them a reality check!!!
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on December 22, 2009, 05:59:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on December 22, 2009, 05:10:21 PM ---I am not arguing with you KWRBT... Some people have assigned different weights to different mitvot... You must agree that there is a mitzvah to not 'round the corners of the head', you have said this yourself... So you just don't interpret this command to mean that you should let your peyot grow... Maybe this is because some rabbis don't consider the importance of some mitzvahs and elevate the status of other mitzvahs.
--- End quote ---
Muman. Please cease this sheker. Your amount of cognitive dissonance is absolutely mindboggling. Your childish display in this thread is just getting worse and worse. There is no "downplaying" of any mitzvah here. Because how could they down play it? IT IS EXPLICITLY WRITTEN IN THE CHUMASH AS A NEGATIVE COMMANDMENT. No one is ignoring this mitzvah. On the contrary, the argument is about the PARAMETERS for fulfilling the mitzvah. Did the Chatham Sofer say that this mitzvah is "not important" CHaS VESHALOM!? No. He said that there is no source for the chasidic custom with which they fulfill this mitzvah. He said that the halacha, the Jewish law, of how to fulfill the mitzvah, requires something much different (less) than what they do. Granted that what they do is certainly permitted and also fits the bill. But it is not required. You need to get over the fact that the chassidic 'stringency' or 'beautification' of this mitzvah is NOT what is required to fulfill it. And I'm sorry if someone misled you by giving you that impression. But please cease the distortions.
Many fine Jews wear chassidic style payoth. And many fine Jews (religious, even very learned rabbis) do NOT. And those fine Jews that do NOT sport the chassidic style payoth are loved no less by Hashem, and fulfill their halachic requirement in that mitzvah no less.
Should I now post picture collages of Jews throughout history who did not have payoth? How about the talmidei chachamim of Germany and other places in Europe in the 1800's and 1900's? Would that be constructive? No, that would be silly and pointless. But I have seen many such pictures just so you know!
This is not about promoting hairstyles. Anyone is free to sport whatever they like as long as they do not violate the commandment. Just don't tell me that your preferred haircut is the real deal, and anything else violates. There is a halacha in Judaism!
--- End quote ---
KWRBT,
Ok, so now I think I understand what you are saying and I must say that I agree. As I said before, I dont think that all Jewish men are required by Halacha to wear Peyot in the style which the Chassidic and Temeni Jews grow theirs... I have also read that some Rabbis poskin that it is OK to cut the peyos as long as it is not with a razor... But I think that this is considered a leniency by most...
My only point in posting many images of Jews with Peyot is that this hairstyle is a uniquely Jewish style and one which has its origins in the Torah. The reason I have not cut mine is so that my ancestery is such that my great grandparents wore peyot and as a result I have adopted the minhagim of my ancestors. I suggest every Jew keep the minhagim of their ancestors and this is what most Rabbis teach us to do.
There is no doubt that there are many pious and righteous Jews who don't have long peyot. I never intended to argue against that. I hope that it is clear what I have tried to say here... I support the Chassidic beliefs concerning this but I don't disparage those Jews who don't observe Chassidic minhagim.
IsraeliGovtAreKapos:
בס"ד
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on December 22, 2009, 06:19:14 PM ---I cannot understand why Natory Qarta gets there pictures taken with the leaders of the PLO and hamas even though a few years ago a subhuman savage from hamas detonated himself on a bus full of children from Meah Shearim.
Do they do this to annoy the hiloni government?
--- End quote ---
Not all of them are like this. They're the "religious" form of self-hating Jews.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on December 22, 2009, 06:26:59 PM ---But hamas wants to kill all Jews including them.
Have Natory Qarta ever lived in an arab country? If anyone said their opinions to a Jew who lived in an arab country they would get punched in the face.
I think Natory Qarta should consider living in an arab coutry for 6 months. That would soon give them a reality check!!!
--- End quote ---
The founders of their sect lived in Eretz Yisrael with Arabs, I believe in part of Jerusalem. Of course, things are different with a foreign British ruler keeping order, but even then things weren't pretty with Arabs. (Consider Hevron, etc). My take on it is that it seems their leaders were a bit naive and when things got tough due to the warfare (and pre 1948 sometimes retaliations from the british) they wanted to point the finger and blame something because their personal families felt comfortable for a few generations (possibly even "good standing" with the Arabs because they played the dhimmi role well) and these events upset their harmony and their personal comfort was encroached upon. Their "normal lives" now included hardship and turmoil, as it did for all the Jews there in that period. And the people in Jerusalem certainly faced considerable hardships in that period due to the circumstances, which of course if the "zionists" had the means to alleviate they obviously wanted to and tried to. This sect (one or two rabbis?) pointed the finger at other Jews who dared to see things differently and do things differently, who dared to consider something outside of their own arba amot, and the rest is history. They stuck to the original views like a dogma, unflinching no matter how much reality changes. So there can be 10 times hamas (G-d forbid) and they will still make the same senseless claims in their blind hatred and the way they dogamatized some of the hashkafic views of their early sect leaders. It became a new Torah for them. "We were always at peace with the Arabs." Completely untrue, but their one or two leaders said that about their own respective families how they personally interacted with arabs over a few generations, and so they take that statement and make it into a universal truth about Jews and Judaism all thru history in all places even tho nothing is father from the truth and it is ahistorical. So too with other stupid ideas.
muman613:
--- Quote from: JNA on December 22, 2009, 06:33:47 PM --- בס"ד
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on December 22, 2009, 06:19:14 PM ---I cannot understand why Natory Qarta gets there pictures taken with the leaders of the PLO and hamas even though a few years ago a subhuman savage from hamas detonated himself on a bus full of children from Meah Shearim.
Do they do this to annoy the hiloni government?
--- End quote ---
Not all of them are like this. They're the "religious" form of self-hating Jews.
--- End quote ---
Are you so sure? There is a religious reason that the NK is anti-Zionist... I have looked into their reasoning and it is not self-hatred, according to what I learned. Their problem is that they don't think that Jews can occupy the land without Hashem first giving us permission through the nations of the world. As it is written in Torah that if the Jews don't keep Torah that the land will vomit them out... That for Jews to fight to stay in the land when they are exiled, like the time after the golden calf incident in the midbar, they will be defeated by their inferior enemies. All those Jews who tried to go into the promised land from the midbar, against Moses command, died trying to enter the land...
Of course I don't agree with what NK does and I am not making any excuse.... But to simply call them self-hating is a very gross oversimplification of the reason NK is anti-zionist.
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