My mom's friend wants to convert me......

[muman613]

                                                            בס"ד

                                                         בס"ד

The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...

What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.

It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.

Where did I disagree?

I did not mean that you disagree... I am just trying to explain the concept which I think Mo was talking about.... To overcome the desires which we are born with, sometimes they are not in line with the Torah... So we must give them up. So if the desire for forbidden sexual relationships, whether they are homosexual or amongst the other forbidden relationships like incest and rape, can be overcome and turned into something good, then the individuals soul gets merit. I dont know what goes on in the homosexual mind but I can only apply what I know about myself and what I learn from Torah. So I believe Hashem doesnt create them just to destroy them, he creates them in order for them to overcome their forbidden temptation.

That is all I am saying.

I don't disagree but no man would desire men just cause of that like me and you desire women. He'd do it as a result of a social background or something like that. Gays are not born like that.

Of course not... I don't believe in the gay gene theory. So it is a matter of Lust, Desire, or Ta'avah...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                           בס"ד

                                                            בס"ד

                                                         בס"ד

The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...

What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.

It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.

Where did I disagree?

I did not mean that you disagree... I am just trying to explain the concept which I think Mo was talking about.... To overcome the desires which we are born with, sometimes they are not in line with the Torah... So we must give them up. So if the desire for forbidden sexual relationships, whether they are homosexual or amongst the other forbidden relationships like incest and rape, can be overcome and turned into something good, then the individuals soul gets merit. I dont know what goes on in the homosexual mind but I can only apply what I know about myself and what I learn from Torah. So I believe Hashem doesnt create them just to destroy them, he creates them in order for them to overcome their forbidden temptation.

That is all I am saying.

I don't disagree but no man would desire men just cause of that like me and you desire women. He'd do it as a result of a social background or something like that. Gays are not born like that.

Of course not... I don't believe in the gay gene theory. So it is a matter of Lust, Desire, or Ta'avah...

It has been refuted. It's just a silly game of the faggots and their Commie fans against the "intolerance against homosexuality".

[~Hanna~]

All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near...

I am the most imperfect person that I know.

[muman613]

All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near...

I am the most imperfect person that I know.

You are not permitted to speak negatively about yourself.... You should turn your perspective around, you have an opportunity to perfect yourself.

Sdom was a wicked place and yet Abraham still was concerned about a few righteous individuals. It deserved its fate and we learn a lot from it.

[~Hanna~]

I'm not?

 

Wow, please tell me more, I need to stop doing that, I must need to hear this, Muman, please post it here.

God is really trying to deal with me about this.

thankyou.

All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near...

I am the most imperfect person that I know.

You are not permitted to speak negatively about yourself.... You should turn your perspective around, you have an opportunity to perfect yourself.

Sdom was a wicked place and yet Abraham still was concerned about a few righteous individuals. It deserved its fate and we learn a lot from it.

[muman613]

My thought comes from the laws of Lashon Hara, or evil speech...

For a Jew to bring up negative aspects of his own life in public is a form of Lashon Hara. Unless it is in private and you are confiding in someone, it is generally best not to say negative things about yourself.

http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter1.html

9. Disparaging  Yourself Along with Others

Even if you're disparaging yourself alongside the subject, it is prohibited. It doesn't matter if you look even worse than the subject, and it doesn't matter if you mention yourself first. Rabbi Pliskin gives some nice examples:

    Ben and I both shoplifted when we were younger.
    Nobody in our group studies Torah properly.

It is also forbidden to speak Lashon Hara about yourself.

[The One and Only Mo]

All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near...

I am the most imperfect person that I know.

You are not permitted to speak negatively about yourself.... You should turn your perspective around, you have an opportunity to perfect yourself.

Sdom was a wicked place and yet Abraham still was concerned about a few righteous individuals. It deserved its fate and we learn a lot from it.

That would be correct if she were Jewish,lol.

[Spiraling Leopard]

I don't find anything wrong with what Pennyjangle wrote.  You all agree that homosexuality is not automatic or genetic, right?  So when she wrote that becoming homosexual/gay is a choice, she was kind of agreeing with you. 

Ah, the voice of reason.