Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Cursing another Jew is forbidden
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
In either case:
You qouted Rabbi Leff as saying:
"When he taught us to beseech that G-d "uproot, smash, cast down, and humble the wanton sinners speedily in our days," he did not have destruction and retribution in mind. His sole interest was that the honor of G-d's sacred Name be restored, and that those who will never recognize G-d through His benevolence will know it through His justice."
But we are still asking for that justice to happen to those enemies. Whether the primary focus is to "punish" the evildoers or to glorify God's name by bringing justice on their heads, in either case you are still cursing them and asking for them to receive their justice.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
I was not commenting about a particular case of a man and his friend who "wronged" him. I don't think you can curse someone over that. Muman, my reaction was to the author of this post, German Kahanist who stated that you cannot curse "anyone at anytime, or any Jew at any time." THIS is what I responded to when I suggested the prayer in the shemoneh esray, and indeed it is a proof to me, even if one learns along the lines of Rabbi Zev Leff. And it is clear that Rabbi Kahane spoke of Yossi Sarid as an "unrepentent sinner" or a traitor to Israel. Not as just some guy who he felt did an insult or a bad thing. That was never what I was talking about.
But it seems that you want to defend both. On the one hand, you rightly point out a person should not curse his friend over trivial matters (or even over a big insult) - and I never disagreed with this, but on the other hand, you seem to argue with ME and in effect, you seem to lend credence to German Kahanist's mistaken position. Please clarify.
You need to direct your answers to specific people. Even if you are quoting huge articles from other locations, you need to address people specifically and show what you are responding to. Otherwise you cause confusion and people take blanket statements as an answer to everything in the thread, when that's not the case, or they think you are arguing with me and with the other guy who asked a question.... It seems like that may be so even though I am in disbelief that you would be....
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
For instance, after quoting my question, citing a long paragraph to address it, for some reason after that you include this:
--- Quote ---Also there is a difference between a unrepentant sinner and one who has wronged us {as the JTFenthusiast2 mentioned, a friend who did us wrong}.... That is why it is wrong to curse this friend...
--- End quote ---
I never asked if it was wrong to curse that friend. So it is out of place (strange) that you follow your citation with this comment. Let us steer clear of confusion and please keep things in order in a given thread.
Now to clarify:
Muman: You say it is wrong to curse so-and-so's friend. Obviously.
Do you also say it is wrong and forbidden to curse Yossi Sarid y''s?
If so, on this Rabbi Kahane clearly disagreed and so do I.
Moshe92:
Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef also cursed Yossi Sarid.
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,2921.msg18703.html#msg18703
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2000/0821/ovadia.html
JTFenthusiast2:
--- Quote from: ~Hanna~ on January 07, 2010, 06:10:48 PM ---I am not Jewish, but that seems just wrong to me...I've been hurt, betrayed, rejected by so called friends, I might get angry and bitter, but I would never say that about them.
Hanna,
Why does this surprise you? It's a natural inclination in thew direction of survival to want to curse those who have betrayed us. The more vicious the betrayal, the more understandable the desire to want to curse them. I am not saying that we 'should' do this which is why I was asking the question. I have one former friend in particular to whom I was a loyal dedicated and faithful friend. HIs response to my kindness was to gossip about me with people whom were really mentally ill, evil and sick in the head. I'm inclined to think this act of gossiping, malignant gossiping, entitles him to be the object of my curse! lol
--- End quote ---
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