Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
To risk life, limb & shabbos.....for a Haitian Hamitic ingrate?!
wonga66:
If the Israeli teams were clever, they'd hop it out of Haiti before they literally get sliced and diced....and eaten alive!
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/01/17/prepared-for-landing-in-port-au-prince/
Certain of the Black race can only be helped up by Whites to a point. Once that point has been reached you're on a losing wicket and they have to be left to their own devices & let "natural selection" takeoever, otherwise they will drag you down to death with them.
ChaimBenMordechai:
--- Quote from: wonga66 on January 17, 2010, 03:45:13 PM ---If the Israeli teams were clever, they'd hop it out of Haiti before they literally get sliced and diced....and eaten alive!
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/01/17/prepared-for-landing-in-port-au-prince/
Certain of the Black race can only be helped up by Whites to a point. Once that point has been reached you're on a losing wicket and they have to be left to their own devices & let "natural selection" takeoever, otherwise they will drag you down to death with them.
--- End quote ---
Haitians are not that far removed from their "brothers" in Africa.
Just go to South Florida and see.
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: wonga66 on January 16, 2010, 04:58:45 PM ---I am pretty sure that the Halacha is that a Jew can be mechalel shabbos in a gentile country to save a goy if he is the only one around who can administer help and there are goyim watching, as refraining from helping would cause animosity.
But for these admirable Haredi Zaka fellows to voluntarily fly out from Eretz Yisrael risking their lives and even break shabbos for Negroidal gentile cannabalistic zombie/voodoo worshipping ingrates...?!
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135547
To some this may be a Kiddush Hashem. But there's also a risk of a Chillul Hashem.
--- End quote ---
Interesting. Haven't thought of this. The ones who went aren't frum, I imagine.
Ari Ben-Canaan:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on January 17, 2010, 07:10:49 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ariel Shayn on January 17, 2010, 12:16:55 AM ---
Lt. Col Henry Opus, of the French Foreign Legion, IDF, and Marines told me it is OK to break shabbat rules if a life may be saved. He's not a religious Jew [he grew up Orthodox, like many European Jews of his day], but he is a Holocaust survivor [he must be very well acquainted with G-d], and I hold him in high esteem.
--- End quote ---
He may be a tremendous tzadik (righteous person) and heroic Jew, but none of this has anything to do with what the Jewish religion says about this issue. And as much as you or I may like and respect Lt. Col Opus, he cannot personally decide the laws of Judaism. So unless he is quoting what his rav explained and taught to him, he is clearly not qualified to decide the matter considering he's not religious and likely has not studied it in depth. If I'm wrong and he's a talmud scholar, fine, but that does not seem to be the case based on what you are saying, and if he is not, there is no business in quoting his opinion.
--- Quote ---"He who saves a life, it is as if he has saved the whole world." [Talmud] <-I am looking at joining Magen David Adom when I make Aliyah; this is a phrase they often use. Given that the whole world is not Jewish, I think it's okay to save that 99% of the world which happens to not be Jewish.
-Maccabees fought on shabbat [to save Jews lives, granted]. I think the first shabbat they got slaughtered, and then from then on out it was decided 7 days a week are needed to "arise earlier than those who would slay you in order to slay them".
--
Am I wrong? Am I not following in the Holy ways of our G-d? Life must be precious because G-d cares for it, and G-d creates it... am I wrong to protect what He values?
Saving a life is a good way to be a "light unto the other nations"?
--- End quote ---
These are all interesting points, but this is not how a halachic discussion is conducted, and this is not how halacha (Jewish law) is arrived at. The same Talmud that you cite contains the record of all halachic discussions (along with subsequent authorities and commentary on Talmud) as a continuation of the centralized authority of the Great Sanhedrin that came before it. The Talmud was sealed in order to unify the halacha, and it is within this vast text that we find the methodology to arriving at the halacha, and we find the codified halacha.
--- End quote ---
I guess I simply do not know "it all". ;)
I do my best to attend a 3-hr weekly Torah study, but I know so little about Talmud, other than somewhat well known quotes [like above].
Seems like it would be easier to start reading a set of Encyclopedias than to START being a Talmud scholar. Even Einstein didn't have it figured out [he said he wish he studied more Talmud in his later days]!
-Can you endorse a reputable place online a guy who has the desire to learn more Talmud can go [what is the real starting point, books like "Talmud for Dummies" have not helped me]? I do my best to process a daily list of things from Chabad, but no real Talmud study, unless the books I study are actually part of the Talmud [that would sort of be a nice surprise]. My view just does not seem wide enough to "get it" with Talmud. I, ashamedly, had NO interest in my own religiosity, heritage, or community until about two years ago.
Dr. Dan:
I placed as detailed a question that gentiles and some Jews on this forum can understand in a non-Talmudic language for Chaim for next week about this subject. Feel free to critique it and I'll adjust it.
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