Serious 9/11 discussion PLEASE PARTICIPATE

[pennyjangle]

I'm entitled to my opinion as you are, sorry for your brother but who was waiting with a jet to whisk them away- Bush and if you think the American government is for you then your in for a rude awaking!  Can you explain Ariel Shayn video on the building not up to code or
To have anger is one thing but to logged it against me because I don't agree with you is crazy.

Pennyjangle HOW DARE YOU speak about crazy?   LOL.   Who are you to judge what is crazy and what isn't when you are in complete denial of the facts of what happened.

"who was waiting with a jet to whisk them away- Bush "   Whisk WHOM away?   You cannot just mumble incoherent babbling and expect us to 'respect' such stupidity as if its a valid response.   It isn't.   You claim it's a massive conspiracy theory that required compliance of up to and including:   NYC Firefighters, NYFD commisioner, NYPD commissioner, NYPD police officers, several Airline companies, flight attendants, pilots, engineers who analyzed the rubble and the aftermath and the destruction, scientists of many types involved in determining what happened, cia and fbi supposedly involved in planting bombs or doing whatever other covert activities to make this happen, all the airline passengers who made "phony" calls home to relatives, all the terrorists on board these planes who had actually made jihadist videos, spent time in terrorist training camps, got flight training in registered schools etc etc, newscrews, news stations, cameramen, reporters, radio announcers, eyewitnesses ALL these  people were involved in the biggest act of "treason" ever committed probably by any country against itself according to your conspiracy theory and NOT ONE person involved has felt bad and spoken out about it.   NOT ONE person has come forward and exposed the evil.  LOL!     This is a joke.   A conspiracy cannot involve thousands of people and expect that no one will be a whistleblower.   A conspiracy that involves an incredible amount of evil and suffering inflicted on innocent people cannot possibly expect 1000's let alone 100's of people to ALL keep quiet about it.  And you have the nerve to talk about who is or isn't crazy when you believe this complete and utter nonsense?


 There was not a conspiracy.   The earth is round.   The sun is hot.    Muslim terrorists committed the 9/11 in the name of Islam-mandated jihad.

If you want to believe in complete and utter nonsense, keep your ridiculous ideas to yourself unless you expect to be and are ok with being flamed, utterly refuted by facts and logic, and ridiculed.   It has no place on this forum as these irrational beliefs have been discredited already time after time after time, elsewhere.

Dispute this before it disappears ....http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Dispute this before it disappears ....http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html

Disappears?  It says copywright 2001.   So if the big bad boogeyman is going to make it disappear since it's so "dangerous" why have they waited 8+ years?  "They" obviously don't care that it exists.   Please think about things before you say them.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Dispute this before it disappears ....http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html

The sections on Hitler y''s and Hussein y''s are completely irrelevant to a discussion about 9/11.   That knocks out 2/3 of this as pointless to read, so why do you demand I waste my time with it?     I know that elements in the American govt and the American people were nazi sympathizers.   Henry Ford was a huge proponent of nazism and helped finance Hitler from what I read and he sort of idolized him.    This has nothing to do with 9/11.

Hussein was considered an ally against Iran and other middle east forces by the US govt, then later he was determined to be an enemy as alliances shifted, allegiances changed, and Hussein's behavior precluded a continued relationship.   What is the point of talking about this?

As to the section about the "carlyle group"  -  What is there to refute?   Bush has business dealings with muslim arabian companies.  He tries to get their investment $$$$.   His family is wrapped up in it.   So what?   All politicians are opportunists and seek to cash in.   That doesn't mean they would commit treason against their own country to do so.  It doesn't mean they would murder thousands of Americans to do so.   You are drawing an improper conclusion.   I'm not even going to bother wasting my time reading the entire article.  I skimmed it and basically it talks about Bush family business ventures.   Big freaking deal.   

There are about 50 siblings of the bin laden family, and osama is an outcast by being a terrorist and revolutionary.   I don't know if it's great that bush family does business with bin laden family, but it has nothing to do with 9/11.   Osama is clearly an enemy of the united states and Bush has stated that from the beginning.    Does that mean any relative of his (there are probably hundreds since they interbreed) should also be an enemy of the US even if they are not involved in terrorism ?   Silly.

You can't formulate actual arguments, you merely cite long novels that you expect me to read and to do the work for you.   Either you have something to say or you don't.  Either you can prove something by pointing to actual evidence or you cannot.     Quoting a long article or diatribe does not count.   Say something of content.  Otherwise stop wasting our time.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

                                                        בס"ד

Once again everything goes to hell when I'm not here. People watch this..

What is this garbage, Ron?   People making uninformed conjectures about what they THINK they are seeing does not make it what actually IS happening.   

Simple question:   If it was a demolition, then why did it take longer than free fall speed to for the buildings to fall?    They clearly did not fall at freefall speed but hit resistance at each floor as the floors on top came pancaking down onto each successive floor.     Demolitions are done at freefall speed.   The explosives are placed inside the building so that the foundations are blown out simultaneously so that there is no resistance on the way down.    It falls like if you dropped something in the air.  This is called freefall.   The only resistance would be air resistance.   In the case of tons of metal and steal and concrete, as that which fell, air resistance would be negligible.   It is very clear the buildings did NOT fall at free fall speed.   One of them took at least 20 seconds to reach the bottom.      That is proof that it was not a controlled demolition.

Peter Jennings reacted to what he saw and guessed at what happened.   But the evidence requires us to analyze what actually did happen.   No explosives planted.   No freefall.    Therefore, no demolition.

[pennyjangle]

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't have myspace.   Again, don't just quote and cite random things and expect us to waste our time with it.   If there is a point to be made, make a point.  If you can't think for yourself then don't bother.   

So sum up the video or else I will not waste my time and I suggest you stop propagandizing with this nonsense.

[mord]

The 9/11 attack on America which occured on September 11th, 2001 was carried out by operatives of Al Queda who were funded by Saudi nationals. 15 of the hijackers were of Saudi origin while the others all subscribed to the Jihadist goals of Al Queda. Usama Bin Laden leads the Al Queda operation and was involved in planning the 9/11 attack. Through a network of sleeper cells in America the terrorists manuevered into place and boarded planes which were to be hijacked. They were able to board the flights using box-cutters which they used to threaten and bully the crews into entering the cockpits of these planes. These terrorists trained how to fly the jet airliners and were able to pilot them to their intended destinations. Two of the planes hit the World Trade Center, where my brother was working that morning... My brother perished in this attack... One plane was intended to take out the White house but this plane was prevented from hitting its target by passengers who attempted to break into the cockpit and kill the terrorists. A third plane was piloted to the Pentagon where it did a good amount of damage and killed several Pentagon workers but it did not completely destroy the pentagon.

The connections of the terrrorists is well established. The will of the terrorists is clearly to perpetrate Jihad against the west, as it has been doing for many years. Al Queda has been on the intelligence radar for almost 30 years and I believe it was involved with the Lebanon Marine barracks attack in the 1980s, the bombings of several African embassies, the 1st WTC bombing, the USS Cole attack, and many many other attacks against the west.

If a person denies this they are living in a fantasy world...

Al Queda has been on the intelligence radar for almost 30 years and I believe it was involved with the Lebanon Marine barracks attack in the 1980s

HEZZBOLLAH

[syyuge]

It was an act of political terrorist jihad against the democracies for their so-called crime of providing so-called support to the Israel.

With this motive some of the conspiracy theories were to be born along with the criminal conspiracy itself and they were to be unleashed one after another immediately once the criminal act was committed. These theories had to be a soft propaganda material by sprinkling salt on the open wounds and it really worked to some extent only because under the given conditions, everyone can not be aware of the following:

** Variations in yield strength of metals at high temperatures.

** Center of gravity and Inertia of massive high rise towers.
 
** High kinetic energy and its vertical domino effects.

** The possibility of controlled demolition tends to be as low as 1/10000 when we see that both the towers are initially collapsing only from the floors which were directly hit and were burning most vigorously.
 
Sometimes the conspiracy theorists surprise me more than the conspirators themselves.

[VladTheImpaler]

It just amazes me the rumours and lies that are sread for whatever means.
The video footage of bush being told about the events show clearly he was visibly shaken by the news.
The other point i,d like to make is we have muslims in britain who believe there were no Jewish people in the twin towers because thats what their told to believe so they can blame Israel for the attack.
I believe muslims commited 9/11 under the orders of osama bin liner why,well there are many reasons.
Tell a lie often enough

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The other point i,d like to make is we have muslims in britain who believe there were no Jewish people in the twin towers because thats what their told to believe so they can blame Israel for the attack.

Indeed, that lie was actually invented by Hezbollah and was based on:   You guessed it - nothing.

There were many Jews who lost their lives including our dear forum member Muman's brother, may his blood and their blood be avenged.

[Muck DeFuslims]

The title of this thread asks for participation in a serious discussion about 9/11.

Well, I'm going to tell you that having a serious discussion about the events of 9/11 with the '9/11 truthers' is an IMPOSSIBILITY.

Here's why: They're too freaking STOOOOOOPID.

One would be better off trying to explain to a rabbit why we only see one side of the moon, than trying to have a rational conversation with a 'truther'.

Case in point: The moronic contention that the towers collapsed as a result of a controlled demolition or implosion.

Anyone with an iota of common sense would understand that massive amounts of explosives would have had to be brought into both towers, strategically placed, and then wired into a network. This would be a massive undertaking and absolutely impossible to conceal. (Not to mention the absolute impossibility of having the planes hit at exactly the same point that the explosives were placed in order to start the collapse.)

If you believe this happened and yet no one saw any evidence of this or caught the 'conspirators' doing their dirty work...YOU'RE A CERTIFIED MORON incapable of rational thought or serious conversation.

People, please THINK. Use the brains G-d gave you.

The idea of a controlled demolition is every bit as ridiculous as the assertion that no Jews perished at the WTC because they were warned in advance. Hopefully, no one here believes THAT. Yet there are 'truthers' that still maintain the veracity of this incredible lie even today.

"Hello Mr. Goldberg ? This is the Mossad calling, don't go to work at the WTC tomorrow. There's going to be a controlled demolition of both towers. We've spent weeks wiring the buildings with explosives and we've hypnotized a bunch of Moozies to hijack some jets and fly them into the towers to cover our nefarious plot. Brilliant plan, isn't it ? Anyway, I've got to go now, lots of other Jews to call and warn. Remember, take the day off tomorrow."

And I'm supposed to have a serious conversation with people that subscribe to, or even give the slightest credence, to this absolute nonsense that even a child could see through ?

Puhleeze.

I suppose I should also have a serious 9/11 conversation with the Moozies that celebrate the '19 glorious martyrs' of 9/11 one second, and then deny culpability the next.

Give me a break.

Sorry, it's not possible to have a serious conversation about 9/11 with these morons.

And I'm sorry to see that we have a few of these morons on this board.



Screw the 9/11 'truthers'. Death to all jihadists. May the blood of the victims of 9/11 be avenged.

[muman613]

The other point i,d like to make is we have muslims in britain who believe there were no Jewish people in the twin towers because thats what their told to believe so they can blame Israel for the attack.

Indeed, that lie was actually invented by Hezbollah and was based on:   You guessed it - nothing.

There were many Jews who lost their lives including our dear forum member Muman's brother, may his blood and their blood be avenged.

Thank you KWRBT.... Yes my brother was a Jew and he died in the towers... It bothers me to no end to hear this assertion...

[Muck DeFuslims]

I am thinking since this thread just leads to people calling each other names and insulting each other, it should be removed.

but what do I know, I am just an ignorant moron with no brains.

Well, ~Kramer~, if you believe that the towers came down as a result of a controlled demolition, rather than the jets slamming into them and the ensuing inferno, then you are indeed a moron.

I've explained why.

If you have a serious rebuttal to the points I made explaining why a controlled demolition is a laughable absurdity and impossibility - then articulate it.

If you're incapable of articulating such a rebuttal and still cling to the ridiculous notion of a controlled implosion being responsible for the collapses - that further proves you're a moron.

So rather than removing the thread, tell this forum whether or not you believe in the 'controlled demoliton conspiracy' and why I shouldn't call you a moron if you do.

[~Hanna~]

I am sorry, but I don't wast my time interacting with someone who hurls insults and degrades people like you do here.

Have a great day.

I am thinking since this thread just leads to people calling each other names and insulting each other, it should be removed.

but what do I know, I am just an ignorant moron with no brains.

Well, ~Kramer~, if you believe that the towers came down as a result of a controlled demolition, rather than the jets slamming into them and the ensuing inferno, then you are indeed a moron.

I've explained why.

If you have a serious rebuttal to the points I made explaining why a controlled demolition is a laughable absurdity and impossibility - then articulate it.

If you're incapable of articulating such a rebuttal and still cling to the ridiculous notion of a controlled implosion being responsible for the collapses - that further proves you're a moron.

So rather than removing the thread, tell this forum whether or not you believe in the 'controlled demoliton conspiracy' and why I shouldn't call you a moron if you do.

[muman613]

I have heard 1st hand stories of religious Jews who were not killed only because the morning of the 11th they were attending minyan for Shelichot, penitential prayers before the Rosh Hashana holiday. These Jews were miraculously saved from death only because they attended davening in the morning...

http://www.jewfaq.org/elul.htm

Selichot

As the month of Elul draws to a close, the mood of repentance becomes more urgent. Prayers for forgiveness called selichot (properly pronounced "s'lee-KHOHT," but often pronounced "SLI-khus") are added to the daily cycle of religious services. Selichot are recited in the early morning, before normal daily shacharit service. They add about 45 minutes to the regular daily service.

Selichot are recited from the Sunday before Rosh Hashanah until Yom Kippur. If Rosh Hashanah begins on a Monday or Tuesday, selichot begins on the Sunday of the week before Rosh Hashanah, to make sure that there are at least 3 days of Selichot. The first selichot service of the holiday season is usually a large community service, held around midnight on Motzaei Shabbat (the night after the sabbath ends; that is, after nightfall on Saturday) . The entire community, including men, women and older children, attend the service, and the rabbi gives a sermon. The remaining selichot services are normally only attended by those who ordinarily attend daily shacharit services in synagogue.

A fundamental part of the selichot service is the repeated recitation of the "Thirteen Attributes," a list of G-d's thirteen attributes of mercy that were revealed to Moses after the sin of the golden calf (Ex 34:6-7): Ha-shem [1], Ha-shem [2], G-d [3], merciful [4], and gracious [5], long-suffering [6], abundant in goodness [7] and truth [8], keeping mercy unto the thousandth generation [9], forgiving iniquity [10] and transgression [11] and sin [12], who cleanses [13]. Why is "Ha-shem" listed twice as an attribute? And why are three of these "attributes" Names of G-d? Different names of G-d connote different characteristics of G-d. The four-letter Name of G-d (rendered here as "Ha-shem") is the Name used when G-d is exhibiting characteristics of mercy, and the Talmud explains that this dual usage indicates that G-d is merciful before a person sins, but is also merciful after a person sins. The third attribute is a different Name of G-d that is used when G-d acts in His capacity as the almighty ruler of nature and the universe.

[Muck DeFuslims]

I am sorry, but I don't wast my time interacting with someone who hurls insults and degrades people like you do here.

Have a great day.

Well, you got one thing right....

You are sorry.

And if you're a 'controlled demolition' conpiracy supporter, you're a sorry moron.

I don't say that to insult you, but it needs to be said.

The memory of the victims of 9/11 and a true account of how and why they died that day demands that you be told off.

If you can't handle that, too bad.

Have a nice day too.

Now run away.

[muman613]

Kramer,

Say it aint so.... Tell us that you are not a 9/11 truther nutjob.... I really hope that you are just bluffing or acting because if you subscribe to such ideology I consider you my enemy...

[~Hanna~]

all I did was ask about building 7, that is all that I did.

thankyou.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I am sorry, but I don't wast my time interacting with someone who hurls insults and degrades people like you do here.

Have a great day.

I'll consider that a surrender, as we all should.

Let's hope you've also dropped belief in the fairytale you were espousing.

[Muck DeFuslims]

all I did was ask about building 7, that is all that I did.

thankyou.

Nope, you did more than that.

You suggested the thread be removed, and accused me of 'hurling insults' and 'degrading people' because I maintain that people that believe in a 'controlled demolition' are morons.

Furthermore, you said "but what do I know, I am just an ignorant moron with no brains", which would lead any reader of the thread to believe you support the controlled demolition explanation for why the towers collapsed.

If all you did was ask a question about building 7, and you don't believe in a controlled demolition conspiracy, then you had no reason to believe you were being insulted or called a moron.

You're being disingenous about this.

Kramer, you're a good guy and I have no reason to insult you personally.

However, I stand by what I said. People that believe that a conspiracy existed to bring the towers down by controlled implosion after the jets slammed into the WTC are CERTIFIED MORONS.

[cjd]

                                                        בס"ד

Once again everything goes to hell when I'm not here. People watch this..

What a load of cr-p in more ways then one....

[cjd]

I've put this off long enough. Has anybody watched "Loose Change second edition" or "9/11 coincidences"? I know this is a sensitive topic and a lot of you might hate me after this (if you already don't), but I want answers, and JTF is the ONLY thing I trust and you guys are like my family. Before anybody goes bonkers on me and calls me names and accuses me of being anti-American, a liberal, a nazi etc. Just know that I am ASKING in order to LEARN. I am not stating my opinion nor rattling off useless facts. I just want answers from the people I trust most in the world. So PLEASE keep the judgments, prejudices, and irrational thoughts to yourselves for the time being.

Your so sweet I love you too. Personally I think it was an inside job. 

Inside what? Do you think that the American government was behind it? I think not... I hope you don't buy that BS either... I would smack anyone who claims this if they said this in my presence. I have cut off people who even mention this idea...

Well said!!

[nessuno]

People are really crazy.  An inside job...  Wish some of the nuts, who think that way, had experienced that day up close and personal.

[cjd]

People are really crazy.  An inside job...   Wish some of the nuts, who think that way, had experienced that day up close and personal.

Exactly ....Besides what do people think that a building like that can be brought down with a few sticks of dynamite? Buildings like that would require tons of explosives put just in the right place and the cement protecting the steel beams removed to accomplish something like that. The tons of jet fuel along with millions of tons of paper and things that burn softened the steel over the hour or so they were burning and allowed the building to collapse under its own weight. The secondary blasts were most likely from natural gas mains that were ruptured and the sound of the hundred or so floors pancaking on top of each other nothing more.

[Ze'ev]

The tsunami was also an inside job, and the proof is here: