Bishop Irinej is new Serbian patriarch

[Sox7]

But I am saying that Orthodoxy has gone way off and needs a lot of reform.

That is what you have in common with the Vatican. Both of you want to reform/ change the Orthodoxy. I do not see any difference between the Vatican's attempt and your attempt. If this is your real intention, agenda, then you are conducting a crime against the Serbs.  

I have nothing in common with the Vatican. The Vatican wants you to bow before their Pope. They want to put all of Christ's power and righteousness in a fallen human being on earth. Then they want to wield that enormous power for whatever political purpose they see fit, whether that is conquering the Americas, the Crusades, WWII and Jasenovac, or something else. It is absolutely monstrous.

Protestantism does not put any people on a pedestal. We don't care about Luther or Calvin or other reformers. We have no high priest or patriarch. The relationship is directly between you and Christ (God) and with your fellow Christians (and non-Christians) around you. And because of this, everything a pastor says must be validated by the Bible. If he cannot support what he is saying with the Bible, then it doesn't hold. The Bible is the final authority on truth - not the priest or the patriarch or the pope or "tradition." Do you understand the difference?

I never said you should become this or that denomination of Protestantism. I understand that there are many problems with Protestantism itself, it is far from perfect. But I am saying the Orthodox church should reform itself from within, to examine whether this or that tradition or doctrine really makes sense or is it just accepted because "it was always this way." I pointed out that icons were very controversial within Orthodoxy itself. There are many other issues as well, e.g. how salvation happens, the meaning of baptism and eucharist, the meaning of good works, etc.

[Sox7]

You don't know much about Christianity at any rate. You cannot be "moderate." Christianity is an all-consuming thing. You must place Christ above all other things: self, family, nation, country, career, entertainment, interests etc. and follow him. That is something rare in both the Orthodox and Protestant churches.
And you know, I hope, that you cannot "earn" your salvation.

Look I know enough about my religion to aviod infiltrators from outside. I can notice the difference between Orthodox teachings and heretic teachings.
But I am not a hardcore believer. I admit.

What is your basis for saying something is heresy?

[crnitrn]

Evo dobrog teoloskog sajta!
http://www.creation6days.com/diskusije/news.php

Site koji govori protiv ikona i tako dalje.. To sam čuo od ozbiljnih ljudi.
Brate prije protjeraj jeretika iz sebe, pa onda se priključi u borbu..

Udji na taj sajt i pitaj ga sta misli o ikonama pa onda pricaj! Znaci nemoj da ti drugi sole pamet idi tamo gde je logika i istina pa ce sve da ti bude jasno.Sam prouci stvari malo dublje udji u teologiju kao sto si i sam priznao samo je povrsno poznajes. Ikone su u ovom trenutku jako nebitna stvar ali si ti zbog drugacijeg misljenja po tom pitanju spreman da nekog ocrnis a da se pritom nisi ni zapitao da li si u pravu. Moj ujak je ikonopisac i radi duborez imam u kuci par njegovih ikona. Ali one su mi opomena i secanje na pobozne ljude - svece. Ali im se ne molim jer drvo ne  moze da pomogne, vec samo Bog Svemoguci kojim se molim!
Ali opet kazem to nije centralno pitanje ono je manje bitno sada moramo da seborimo protiv ekumenizma!

[Sox7]

Evo dobrog teoloskog sajta!
http://www.creation6days.com/diskusije/news.php

Site koji govori protiv ikona i tako dalje.. To sam čuo od ozbiljnih ljudi.
Brate prije protjeraj jeretika iz sebe, pa onda se priključi u borbu..

Udji na taj sajt i pitaj ga sta misli o ikonama pa onda pricaj! Znaci nemoj da ti drugi sole pamet idi tamo gde je logika i istina pa C.E. sve da ti bude jasno.Sam prouci stvari malo dublje udji u teologiju kao sto si i sam priznao samo je povrsno poznajes. Ikone su u ovom trenutku jako nebitna stvar ali si ti zbog drugacijeg misljenja po tom pitanju spreman da nekog ocrnis a da se pritom nisi ni zapitao da li si u pravu. Moj ujak je ikonopisac i radi duborez imam u kuci par njegovih ikona. Ali one su mi opomena i secanje na pobozne ljude - svece. Ali im se ne molim jer drvo ne  moze da pomogne, vec samo Bog Svemoguci kojim se molim!
Ali opet kazem to nije centralno pitanje ono je manje bitno sada moramo da seborimo protiv ekumenizma!

Ima li jos kao ti, koji drze ikone u kuci ali im se ne klanjaju?

[Novakovic]

What is your basis for saying something is heresy?

If something is a deviation it is heresy. Heresy is considered as a great sin in Orthodoxy. Now you will say what is deviation. According to the Orthodox point of view those separations of the original way are a heresy. We all know in what century Orthodoxy was established (by the apostles of Christ) and we all know that protestantism was founded somewhere in the 15/16 century. So I am not interested in new religions which were created by men and function as a replacement of real Christianity.

I do believe that there are good and moral people amongst protestants. But I do not believe that they are following Christ according to the right way. Orthodoxy teaches us to judge people on their actions. The protestant countries organized the biological exterminations of the native population of North, South, Middle America, Africa, Australia and New Sealand. Countries and nations that obey Christ and live according to Christs rules can not participate into crimes like that.

[Novakovic]

Ima li jos kao ti, koji drze ikone u kuci ali im se ne klanjaju?

Ako mislis da pravoslavci obozavaju ikone kao neke bogove, onda malo znas o pravoslavlju.

[Novakovic]

yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?

I am not here for spewing insults etc.
Look if someone constantly insults me, then I should react to that..

You are pretty selective. You do not mention that I was provoked. 

[Sox7]

yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?

I am not here for spewing insults etc.
Look if someone constantly insults me, then I should react to that..

You are pretty selective. You do not mention that I was provoked. 

Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.

[Novakovic]

Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.

Yes. But until a certain limit.

[Sox7]

Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.

Yes. But until a certain limit.

Okay, if you are interested in Christian theology discussions, you can contact me by private messaging.

[Novakovic]

Okay, if you are interested in Christian theology discussions, you can contact me by
private messaging.

Nice! I like to talk about that. 
But I am not very good informed about Orthodoxy.
I know something, but not as much as other people.

[crnitrn]

yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?

I am not here for spewing insults etc.
Look if someone constantly insults me, then I should react to that..

You are pretty selective. You do not mention that I was provoked. 

Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.

Evo jos jedne  lose shvacene isusove recenice! I drago mi je da si ovo pomeno da bih rekao nesto vise!
Zamislite da ste u srbiji a da je Drugi svetski rat i pridje vam svaba i iz nekog razloga vam  udari samar (ajde bas da uzmem taj primer)! Da li bi se ti okrenuo i vratio mu? Naravno da ne bi ako ti je zivot mio!
E u takvoj situaciji su bili Jevreji koje je okupirao Rim. Znaci okuacija je na delu kada se Isus pojavljuje. I on im govori da budu pokorni i poslusni okupatoru i da sacuvaju sebe a da istovremeno rade na svojoj moralnoj strani da postanu ugodni pred Bogom i sacuvaju dusu svoju. I On je dosao medju njih kao covek da bi im pokazao sta covek treba  i moze da ucini, zaci dosao je da dize moralni utanak a ne fizicki protiv okupatora kako su vecina jevreja tada misli i zato su bili proterani posle ustanka. Bog je jevreje vrlo lako mogao da oslobodi od Rmiljana ali nije On je i dozvolio da ih rimljani pokore (zato sto su odstupili od njega) da bih kaznio i dozvao ih pameti. Naravno veci deo nije poslusao hrista jer je plus bio obmanut od  fariseja(tadasnjih irineja i anastasija) i bivaju proterani. A da su jeveri masovno poceli da se poboljsavaju moralno, rim bi odatle otiso ko rukom odnesen!

A kada je izrael bio slobodna teokratska drzava npr. u vreme isusa navina  postojali su tacno definisani zakoni koje je napiao mojsije u tori! E u takvoj drzavi se ne okrece drugi obraz tu svako odgovara za svoje postupke. Posto je samar i fizicki napad i uvreda taj bi bio izveden pred sudije i dobio bi odredjenu kaznu. Zavisno od ostecenog, mozda bi mu vratio , mozda bi platio novcanu kaznu, bicevan ... ali ovo sve sa preduslovom da je osteceni skroz nevin!

Znaci to sto isus govori odnosi se na vreme okupacije, e u takvoj smo mi sada situaciji! Pogledajte oko sebe kakav nemoral i uzas imate  u srbiji. Demokratska vlast sprovodi evropu unistava nas u svakom a ponajvise u verskom i moralnom smislu. Uzeli kosovo, Bosna, hrvatska.... A sta smo bili pre samo 100g.
Mi sada moramo da radimo na nasem moralu i duhovnosti, da mi vaspitamo nasu decu kako treba, sredimo porodice pa onda da krenemo da sredimo drzavu . a tada bi nam Bog pomogao cas bi to uradili ali mi moramo da se sredimo iznutra pa da krenemo dalje. Da pocistimo nase dvoriste (individualno,porodicno i drzavno) pa onda tudje!Znaci ustanak fizicki je najlaksa stvar kad ste sklopili savez sa najacom vojnom silom(najvecom silom u svakom smislu) - Bogom.A savez mozes sklopiti ako pristanes na Njegove uslove, a uslovi su dati u Tori ili njen rezime u deset tacaka, Deset Bozijih zapovesti. Ali ne samo da pristanes vec i da ih ispunis jer dela su ta koja se gledaju!

[crnitrn]

http://vaticanobservatory.org/
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-04/devil-named-telescope-helps-astronomers-see-through-darkness
Vatikan ima teleskop kome le ime lucifer!

[crnitrn]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6109/zastavav.jpg

[Serbian Canadian]

Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo. 

[voo-yo]

Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo. 

Objasnio sam vise puta svoj stav. Novakovicu, koji je ranije bio clan pod imenom "Serbian Radical Party" i koji je banovan zbog anti-jevrejskih i pro-muslimanskih stavova, nije mesto na ovom forumu. Nikada se nije izvinuo zbog toga, nije mu zao i nije promenio te stavove.
Ja njega ne prihvatam kao clana.

[crnitrn]

Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo. 

HVALA BOGU  DA SI SE OBRATIO JA SAM PROBAO DA IM PREDOCIM NEKE STVARI ALI SU TVRDOGLAVI!

[Sox7]

Regardless of what we think of Orthodoxy vs. Protestantism, I think we can all agree that ecumenism with the Vatican is a bad idea. If not for spiritual/theological reasons, then for historical/political ones. The Pope is an incompatibility for other forms of Christianity, and the Vatican has demonstrated more that once in its long history that it will stoop to anything (covering up pedophilia and executing genocide) to "solve problems." The question, then, is how the people (who are mostly opposed to ecumenism) can resist Irinej's and Jevtic's program.

[Kerber]

Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo. 

Objasnio sam vise puta svoj stav. Novakovicu, koji je ranije bio clan pod imenom "Serbian Radical Party" i koji je banovan zbog anti-jevrejskih i pro-muslimanskih stavova, nije mesto na ovom forumu. Nikada se nije izvinuo zbog toga, nije mu zao i nije promenio te stavove.
Ja njega ne prihvatam kao clana.

Kako si ti siguran da je Novakovic bivsi clan SRS?
Slicni stavovi prema poturcenim Srbima nisu garant bilo cega.

[Novakovic]

Kako si ti siguran da je Novakovic bivsi clan SRS?
Slicni stavovi prema poturcenim Srbima nisu garant bilo cega.

Ja nisam bivsi clan SRS. Nikad nisam bio clan politicke partije. Ne znam sta taj covjek ima prema meni? Dali ovdje SRS clanovi nisu pozeljni? Sta je problem?

Inace SRS nema pro-muslimanske stavove. To sto smatraju da su Muslimani srpskog porijekla je nesto drugo. Ne znam sto mene optuzuje da sam promusliman ili antijevrej? Boze sacuvaj!

[crnitrn]

Yes Serbstvo that is the true, but orthodox serbs cant be a friends with Ustasa, Wahhabis. ecumenists ... I donot care if they have serbian blood! Yes croat can be my brother and Bosnian to, if they are  not papist. Maybe you wonder how it is possible that muslim be a papist, trust me they are in Bosnia, but biggest part are not aware of that!! Palestinians are papist to! Shqiptars to, just a few years ago in the center of Pristina has built a new huge Cathedral.The cathedral is visiting by Muslims Shqiptars in great numbers, majorityyoung people (in Kosmet is just a few percent of catholic  Shqiptars)! One journalist ask a girl on the street why they are doing that if they are a Muslims, she said that dont know, she just doing what does doing a rest of they youth and her friends! That is the evidence that they are papist and  they are not aware of that fact, majority of course. 

[crnitrn]

I specified that a person of Serbian blood who LOVES HIS COUNTRY is a Serb. The fact that Croats, Bosnian Muslims and a large number of Albanians have Serbian blood running through their veins is irrelevant because they hate our guts. Now we are faced with a more recent artificial nation of Montenegrins who are Orthodox as we are. So it's clear that religion is not the root cause of our divisions. Not to mention that in Serbia, there are plenty of people who are Serbian in name only, but hate everything Serbian with a passion. I am willing to bet that they number in the tens of thousands.

Yes that is the truth! I agree with you!

[voo-yo]

Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo. 

Objasnio sam vise puta svoj stav. Novakovicu, koji je ranije bio clan pod imenom "Serbian Radical Party" i koji je banovan zbog anti-jevrejskih i pro-muslimanskih stavova, nije mesto na ovom forumu. Nikada se nije izvinuo zbog toga, nije mu zao i nije promenio te stavove.
Ja njega ne prihvatam kao clana.

Kako si ti siguran da je Novakovic bivsi clan SRS?
Slicni stavovi prema poturcenim Srbima nisu garant bilo cega.

Siguran sam, imam mejlove od njega koji to dokazuju.

[Novakovic]

Sox7 it seems you are very well informed about Serbian history and issues. Are you Serbian?

He is not stupied, I agree. Only I do not agree with his opinion on Milan Nedic.

[crnitrn]

http://www.jutarnji.hr/papa-u-hrvatsku-dolazi-4--lipnja--u-posjeti-ce-biti-dva-dana/904403/
Pope will prayon the grave of monster Alojzija Stepinca.