Author Topic: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy  (Read 46610 times)

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Offline Daniel

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #100 on: May 20, 2007, 10:00:15 AM »
Extremism and absolutism leave very little room for compromise. And when there is very little room for compromise, you make more enemies than friends...

Brilliant! Just brilliant! i couldn't have said it any better myself!

Offline Shlomo

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #101 on: June 03, 2007, 04:04:38 AM »
Yes, we have a lot more serious topics to discuss and talking constant trash about all women is off topic and arrogant.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Sarah

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2007, 02:57:42 PM »
This is a new rule because of Adam613.

No trash talk against all women. Trashy slut women may be criticized. But to criticize all women just because they are women is not permitted and may result in permanent banning.



And who is to distinguish which women are trashy sluts Yacov?:)

Offline Sarah

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #103 on: June 12, 2007, 01:26:23 PM »
And who is to distinguish which women are trashy sluts Yacov?:)


The Torah.



Perfect answer.

I'm going to promote you a couple of times for that. ;D ;D

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #104 on: August 12, 2007, 09:34:47 PM »
I hope that these new rules won't affect me.

Offline Shlomo

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #105 on: September 03, 2007, 02:39:30 AM »
Often, we allow ourselves to judge our fellow unfavorably as a result of listening to lashon hara (translated as evil speech). The Torah has many things to say about lashon hara, but what exactly is it? It is lashon hara to say negative things about anyone (who is not an enemy) whether true or not. It is lashon hara to imply negative things about anyone whether true or not. And it is lashon hara to listen to negative things about anyone - and if we do hear it, we are not to believe it. Lashon hara is killing our unity and this divisiveness must stop if we are to be effective in our mission and help JTF.

The most notable verse in Torah against lashon hara comes from Leviticus 19:16, "Do not go about as a talebearer among your people." The juxtaposition of this verse with the previous verse telling us to judge our neighbor fairly is very interesting. These concepts are inseparably linked, although they are separate mitzvot . The Chofetz Chaim (one of the GREAT Jewish sages) shows us very clearly in his works that to speak or listen to lashon hara is a transgression of 31 of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is said that lashon hara is so powerful that it can erase the merits of a lifetime of Torah learning and mitzvah observance.

If we are to unravel this hatred against one another, we must suspend our unfavorable judgment of each other, halt the perpetuation of those unfavorable judgments through lashon hara, and make a conscious decision to truly forgive and support one another.

In Pirkei Avos 1:6, we learn that we must "judge everyone favorably". From Leviticus 19:15, we learn that "in righteousness you shall judge your people". What does this mean? The Talmud (Shabbos 127b) tells this story of an agricultural worker:

Quote
A worker spent three years working for a landowner. On the eve of Yom Kippur he went to his employer to collect the wages for the full three years in order to return home to his wife and children. The employer claimed to have no money. "Give me fruit," said the worker. "I have no fruit," the employer said. "Let me have some of your land," pleaded the worker, thinking that he could sell it and use the proceeds. Again the landowner claimed that this was impossible. Every request for equivalent payment by the worker (animals, pillows, blankets) was met with the same reply: "I have none."

Brokenhearted and penniless, the worker trudged home. After the holidays, the landowner arrived at the home of his former employee and presented him not only with his wages, but with several mules carrying foods and delicacies as a treat for the worker's family. "Tell me," asked the landowner, "when I told you I had no money, what did you think?"

"I assumed you had invested in merchandise that you were able to purchase at a good price," answered the worker.

"And when I said I hand no animals?" the landowner inquired. "Oh, I assumed you had hired out your animals," was the reply.

"And what about my claim that I had no fruit?"

"I assumed that you had not taken the necessary tithes," the worker replied, for it is forbidden to use fruit which has not been tithed.

"Fine; but what suspicion entered your mind when I claimed to have no pillows or covers?"

"None at all. I was sure you had consecrated all your property to the Temple treasury," replied the worker.

"I swear to you," replied the landowner, "that it was exactly as you thought. I pledged all my worldly goods to the Temple in order that my son merit success at his studies. Just as you judged me favorably, so may you be judged in Heaven in a favorable manner."

A more contemporary story from "Around the Maggid's Table", also explains this mishnah (please read this one!):

Quote
Mr. Usher Feingold of Ashdod was a poor man whose friends and neighbors helped raise money for his daughter's wedding. To everyone's astonishment, the wedding was catered in a large ballroom, in a very lavish manner. Many of the guests were highly offended. Was this how an ostensibly poor family had used the funds that had been raised for them? Surely the money could have been put to better use. The guests felt they had been used. After the wedding, the Feingolds could not fail to feel the resentment of the community.

Shortly thereafter, Mr. Feingold visited his Rabbi and explained. He and his wife had gone to the caterer to arrange a simple and inexpensive wedding. During the course of the discussion, the caterer realized that she and her family owed their lives to Mr. Feingold's father, who had hidden them from the Nazis. She insisted on catering the wedding at her own expense, as a small expression of her gratitude - but she made the Feingolds promise that it would remain a secret.

"When we came to the hall that night, we were as shocked as everyone else, but I couldn't say anything to my guests. But when I saw the attitude of our friends, I went to her and explained. She gave me permission to tell the story, so now I beg you, please let people know the truth."

It is about such situations that we are taught to judge everyone favorably.

In our circles, we have often used the excuse, or some form of it, "I'm just telling you this to protect you," or "I'm just telling you this to ___________ (insert anything)." Our Sages and Rabbis, may their memory be a blessing, teach us that the only permissible time to speak negative of anyone is if ALL of the following criteria are met: 1) You are doing it to help someone, to prevent someone from being victimized, or to resolve a major dispute; 2) What you say is based on firsthand information; 3) What you are saying is true and accurate; 4) You have addressed the issue with the person about who you speak; 5) That person refuses to change; 6) There is no other way to meet the goal (help someone, prevent victimization, resolve major dispute); and 7) What you say will not cause undue harm.

How often have we spoken negatively of someone while only, supposedly, meeting the first criteria. How often has it been that we have met all seven criteria? Can you think of a single time that all seven criteria were met?

And finally, how many of us fail to forgive and bear a grudge based on the unfavorable judgments we have passed and lashon hara we have heard and spoken? I can truly only speak for myself, and my failures here are myriad. Indeed, we are commanded by Torah to forgive. Again, juxtaposed and inseparably linked from the above passages, yet a separate mitzvah, Leviticus 19:18 tells us, "You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge."

A story, from an unknown source, elucidates the impact of lashon hara:

Quote
Once there was a man who had said awful things about someone. Realizing that he has done something awful, he goes to his rabbi and asks, "Rabbi, what can I do?" The rabbi thinks a bit and tells the man to bring him a feather pillow. The man brings the pillow, and the rabbi tells him to go outside, rip the pillow open, and shake out the feathers. The man does that. As he shakes out the feathers, the wind catches them, and they start flying everywhere. The man comes back to the rabbi and says, "I did as you said. Now what?" The rabbi says, "Now go back outside and pick up all the feathers." The man looks startled and says, "How can I? The wind took them! I don't even know where they are now." The rabbi says, "Exactly. Just like your words. Once they're out, it's impossible to get them back"

We can't go back and recapture all the lashon hara that has been spoken, at least I know that I can't "capture my feathers". But we can resolve to speak it and hear it no more. The Chofetz Chaim said, "If an entire group resolves together to guard their speech, the merit is greater than if only one individual has made this resolution."

In the bedtime shema (the prayer before we go to sleep), the first section is a declaration of our forgiveness of others. It reads:

Master of the universe, I hereby forgive anyone who angered or antagonized me or who sinned against me - whether against my body, my property, my honor or against anything of mine; whether he did so accidentally, willfully, carelessly, or purposely; whether through speech, deed, thought, or notion; whether in this transmigration or another transmigration - I forgive every Jew. May no man be punished because of me. May it be Your will, HaShem, My G-d and the G-d of my forefathers, that I may sin no more. Whatever sins I have done before You, may You blot out in Your abundant mercies, but not through suffering or bad illnesses. May the expressions of my mouth and the thoughts of my heart find favor before You, HaShem, my Rock and my Redeemer.

That is a beautiful prayer. For me, I guess reading that prayer, and meaning it, on a consistent basis has had a real impact. In my recent studies, I've learned much about what forgiveness means in Judaism. Perhaps that is because I've been studying about Yom Kippur. There are several preparatory acts for Yom Kippur. Those are piyus (reconciliation), tevilah (immersion in a mikveh), viduy (confession of sins), and tzedakah (charity). Also, there is kaparos (the atonement ritual), but today that is observed through tzedakah which was already listed. With regard to piyus (reconciliation) we learn from Mishnah Yoma 8:9:

For sins between man and G-d, Yom Kippur provides atonement; but for sins between man and his fellow man, Yom Kippur does not provide atonement, until he appeases that man. This did R' Elazar ben Azariah expound: "From all your sins before HaShem shall you be cleansed" (Leviticus 16:30).

The Talmud relates that Rav, having once angered R' Chaninah, went every year for thirteen years to appease him on Erev Yom Kippur. Therefore, on Erev Yom Kippur every man should set his heart on appeasing everyone against whom he has transgressed.

Another man's sins are between him and G-d. It is our responsibility to seek forgiveness for our own sins from our fellow. It is our responsibility to forgive whether our fellow seeks our forgiveness or not. When we live up to our responsibility to seek forgiveness from our fellow, we should focus on our own shortcomings only. If our fellow does not forgive, that is between him and G-d, but we still have the responsibility to seek forgiveness for as long as it takes. When we live up to our responsibility to forgive our fellow, and he does not seek our forgiveness, that is between him and G-d, but we should forgive him anyway. It has been said that forgiveness takes time. Forgiveness takes an instant. Wounds may take time, but forgiveness is a decision that we either decide to make or decide not to make.

Please hear my heart on these matters and search your own hearts. It is still not too late. This holy season is a perfect time for it. It is said that Yisrael will only merit the Messiah when we all guard our speech. Perhaps, if we, together, resolve to guard our speech and forgive one another, then, as the Chofetz Chaim teaches, our merit will be counted as righteousness. Perhaps, if we do so, we will merit the Messiah again in our midst.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #106 on: September 03, 2007, 02:42:40 AM »
EXCELLENT sticky, Jeffguy. I will be lifting up to G-d that we all take it seriously. You have said what absolutely needs to be taken to heart by every one of us.

Offline Ehud

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #107 on: September 03, 2007, 03:06:28 AM »
Wow, that was fantastic.  You should consider submitting that to one of the Jewish web magazines, or a site such as ASKMOSES.COM.  I'm sure they would be thrilled to have your wonderful article. 

I do think that it is indeed evil to presume bad and negative things about good people when you don't have the basis or first-hand knowledge to do so.  Good people deserve to have the benefit of the doubt.  I also think that it is harmful to speak negatively about good people, like if trying to find faults or exceptional (as in bad) behavior to bring a good person down because it might be gossip-worthy.  Willfully tarnishing someone's good name for such a petty reason is truly reprehensible. 
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #108 on: September 03, 2007, 04:07:21 AM »
Why is the word 'negro' censored?

It's not slang or pejoritive. It's every bit as proper as 'caucasian'. Black community leaders insisted on it's use until the malcom x era.

Bowing to evil, Orwellian, facsist PC is wrong.

Offline nessuno

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #109 on: September 03, 2007, 09:42:03 AM »
Why is the word 'negro' censored?

It's not slang or pejoritive. It's every bit as proper as 'caucasian'. Black community leaders insisted on it's use until the malcom x era.

Bowing to evil, Orwellian, facsist PC is wrong.
Does every black person on the face of the earth consider themselves AfricanAmerican?
What is the proper term for those who don't?
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2007, 05:23:58 PM »
I have too often judged someone favourably, and been stung in the back for it, I will try to follow your advice though, JeffGuy.

Offline Sarah

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #111 on: September 04, 2007, 06:54:40 PM »
I have too often judged someone favourably, and been stung in the back for it, I will try to follow your advice though, JeffGuy.

Its part of life.

Offline Ari

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #112 on: September 04, 2007, 11:42:14 PM »
Can'ts we all just get along.

Offline decimos

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #113 on: September 05, 2007, 05:34:11 AM »
mmm.excellent post jeffguy.very thought provoking.i have read 3 times now,and each time i see and learn something ...v-good m8.
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken perversion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage, to draw thee aside out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.Deuteronomy 13:5.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #114 on: September 05, 2007, 07:50:24 AM »
rules on fighting:....don't forget to add that we need to wear our punching gloves so we don't hurt our fists.  :laugh:
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline MarZutra

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #115 on: September 09, 2007, 09:34:08 AM »
Why is the word 'negro' censored?

It's not slang or pejoritive. It's every bit as proper as 'caucasian'. Black community leaders insisted on it's use until the malcom x era.

Bowing to evil, Orwellian, facsist PC is wrong.
Does every black person on the face of the earth consider themselves AfricanAmerican?
What is the proper term for those who don't?
No we have "African Canadians" and "African Nova Scotians".  Funny though how if one asks most immigrants what "nationality" are they, the answer is NEVER "Canadian" but Somali, Nigerian, Chinese, Korean, Russian, Columbian, Syrian etc.   
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline MarZutra

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #116 on: September 22, 2007, 10:05:49 PM »
I noticed a few of my posts were deleted.  Did I violate terms of use or were some entire threads taken off for some reason?
I believe the mods take down any old threads or inactive ones...  not to worry... :)
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline Hail Columbia

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #117 on: September 22, 2007, 10:22:24 PM »
I noticed a few of my posts were deleted.  Did I violate terms of use or were some entire threads taken off for some reason?

I was moving several threads to appropriate boards.


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In Thy way to do Thy will.

Offline cjd

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #118 on: September 24, 2007, 08:00:31 PM »
There is a new rule that prohibits people coming here in order to sell stuff for their personal businesses and/or soliciting money from our people.


I am glad that this rule was imposed. Unknown people doing business through JTF can cause the movement to get a bad name if they are unreliable. Also if they intended to use the forum to advertise they should at least arrange to make some sort of monetary contribution to JTF for allowing it.
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Offline Zan

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2007, 01:36:18 AM »
Any type of censorship is fundamentally disrespectful. It insults the intelligence and virtue of both the writers and the readers. This evil alone might doom JTF as a movement.    
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Offline Zan

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #120 on: September 26, 2007, 02:11:38 AM »
It insults the intelligence of our members to say they can't curse? What are we, DemocraticUnderground?

Curse words exist for a reason and serve a legitimate purpose. So do racial, genderal, and other 'tribal' epithets. Even though it does makes sense that JTF would have fewer of these than normal.

But to have none seems flat wrong. It shows disrespect to writers and readers. It suggests JTFers aren't to be trusted with their use of language. It treats adults as children.

The magazine The New Yorker uses swear and bigot words rarely -- but sometimes it does use them. So too many upscale periodicals. Censorship as a fundamental principle is wrong. JTF needs to have more faith.
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Offline Sarah

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #121 on: September 26, 2007, 03:42:03 PM »
Actually the forum has a moral duty to prevent the usage of swear words in regards and respect to those members who do not wish to see or read such foul words or evil. Swear words, mean horrible things, if you'd lie to see these words when there are equally good terms of expression that can be used then thats not nice. Zan you can even create a poll asking people if they'd rather use swear words, i'm sure many would not wish to do so.

Freedom of speech, concerns views and opinions, not adjectives that serve no purpose other then to insult. I suggest you by a theasaurus if you lack the imagination to use any other vocabulary.

Btw Welcome to the forum, I don't mean to be mean, just stating what I believe.....Freedom of speech! :D

Offline Eugene

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #122 on: October 17, 2007, 12:32:06 AM »
In Russian language there is a Word ZHID means that a slang for a jew I was wondering if word ok here
8-) shalom

Offline Eugene

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #123 on: October 17, 2007, 12:57:35 AM »
Yes, it is okay. I heard that it's a slur and Russian Jews get offended but I see it as okay because it just comes from the etymology of the word Jew. But the "politically correct" word for Jew in Russian comes form the etymology of the word Hebrew.



acctually they dont really get offended it's like a homie or a budy. Example Hey my zhid whassup Zhidas and so on and etc that how they communicate with each other.
8-) shalom

Offline Zan

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Re: The Rules of The JTF Forum and The Censored Words Policy
« Reply #124 on: November 07, 2007, 01:15:53 AM »
Sarah -- 40 days ago you wrote:

Actually the forum has a moral duty to prevent the usage of swear words in regards and respect to those members who do not wish to see or read such foul words or evil. Swear words, mean horrible things, if you'd lie to see these words when there are equally good terms of expression that can be used then thats not nice. Zan you can even create a poll asking people if they'd rather use swear words, i'm sure many would not wish to do so.

Freedom of speech, concerns views and opinions, not adjectives that serve no purpose other then to insult. I suggest you by a theasaurus if you lack the imagination to use any other vocabulary.

Btw Welcome to the forum, I don't mean to be mean, just stating what I believe.....Freedom of speech! :D

Let me be very clear about the pro censorship policy of JTF. It's morally wrong and practically destructive. I hold JTF in contempt for it. I predict JTF will now have a significantly harder time creating good and great people to lead the world because of this evil policy. JTF will create sheep -- not lions (as I am already). I predict JTF will become a successful mass movement much later than it easily could have and should have.

JTF needs ten or a hundred Chaim ben Pesachs to lead it. This wrong-headed censorship policy insures they'll be less likely to emerge. It will weaken the mind, and break the heart of many -- seeing to it that much of the next generation is still-born.

As for me needing to "by" a "theasaurus" -- I have a larger, richer, and better vocabulary than anyone else on this forum. But some of this consists of sexual and bigoted 'swearing' which is absolutely essential to full vigorous expression.

And as for you "welcoming" me to the JTF forum -- I've been a Kahanist for more than 20 years! This is longer than anyone else here except Chaim!     
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