News just keeps getting worse for homosexuality

[Zelhar]

I think the biggest threat from showers is usually athlete's foot, but is it possible that flesh eating bacteria could also be there?

I think one might catch MRSA and other germs and fungi from the gym apparatus (apparata ? ti ? ). The shower is a little safer I imagine, because there is constant draining of water and also the feet have a thick protective layer of skin.

But in any case there are more dangerous places and objects that can get one sick: door knobs, keyboards, faucet handles, uncooked meat and fish, hot tubs, ...

[Rubystars]

I think the biggest threat from showers is usually athlete's foot, but is it possible that flesh eating bacteria could also be there?

I think one might catch MRSA and other germs and fungi from the gym apparatus (apparata ? ti ? ). The shower is a little safer I imagine, because there is constant draining of water and also the feet have a thick protective layer of skin.

But in any case there are more dangerous places and objects that can get one sick: door knobs, keyboards, faucet handles, uncooked meat and fish, hot tubs, ...

I was just thinking of it because I thought I remembered an article about MRSA being a problem among gay men a while back and they were spreading it through skin-to-skin contact. You're probably right that the shower might not be a spot where it's likely to get it. However I have heard of people who are wade fishing getting it from cutting themselves in the water.

[Novakovic]

Gays are dangers!
Many high ranking Nazis were gays and were one of the most cruelest fascists during the Nazi-area. They were extremely merciless towards their victims. An immoral and perverse life style like a gay life style, can lead to extreme cruelness as represented by the Nazis.

[Rubystars]

I don't think most gays would turn out like Nazis, but I think homosexuality was definitely an indication of their general moral depravity.

[Ulli]

Gays are dangers!
Many high ranking Nazis were gays and were one of the most cruelest fascists during the Nazi-area. They were extremely merciless towards their victims. An immoral and perverse life style like a gay life style, can lead to extreme cruelness as represented by the Nazis.

Yes, this is true. Homosexuality was and is an integral component of Naziism. Of cause the Nazis denie this, but this doesn't change the facts.

[JTFenthusiast2]

With all due respect Dr. Dan, you are a dentist.  More importantly, your reiteration of my points are totally wrong.  This seems to be an all too common theme on this forum when someone states anything that is against the grain of some JTfers who claim to be 'experts' on a variety of things.  I would encourage you to read what I wrote dentist Dan before having the audacity to falsely condemn me.  Furthermore, I don't have a quiver of a shred of a doubt that there are heterosexual people on this forum who are much graver sinners than I have ever been.  For somethings I doubt myself, looking at myself critically,  but for this, I don't even blink.

You write: "It is immoral to have homosexual (sic). And it is immoral to have heterosexual (sic)before and outside of marriage. To do so can harm the mind, soul, and lead to a much HIGHER risk of ruining one's life with an embarrassing STD. For someone to get away with no STD when they do this is lucky."    This has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said.  I mean your free to opine on whatever you wish, but this has nothing to do with anything I said.


You then write, "Bottom line, chaim and muman are right and JTFenthusiast2 is way off."  With all due respect, I'm a physician and you're a dentist, you have absolutely no qualifications to make such a statement--medically.  If you want to make medical statements with true authority or correct those of physicians, go to medical school.  Until then, you're the person who is behaving with arrogance and without a inch of ground to stand on.  That you mis read my post at every single point says a great deal about your not reading very well and acting on your emotions and NOT the facts. 

You state "Watering down the results of AIDS and HIV to go against "myths" of immoral behavior to almost justify that it could be ok if someone gay gives in to temptation especially by a doctor, is arrogant and a special type of Chillul Hshem coming from a Jewish one on this forum.  Its like saying "you're all wrong because it really isn't that bad (and therefore, if I mess up once or if anyone here messes up once they'll be fine most likely)". I say, "Azehoo she LO! (NOT!!!!!!!!!!!)"


Dan, are you on drugs???   I never said any of that.  I accepted Chaim's accurate reading of the studies when he presented his understanding of what was written.  No where do I come close to even suggesting that anal sex is a good thing.  I am not an advocate of it and said so.  Your reiteration of me saying that 'it isn't all that bad' is a product of your abysmal reading comprehension.  I don't feel that way at all.  What I do say is that hypocritical moralists like yourself shouldn't expect to be revered by people who see you for your arrogance, tendency towards propaganda, and hypocrisy

[JTFenthusiast2]

Gays are dangers!
Many high ranking Nazis were gays and were one of the most cruelest fascists during the Nazi-area. They were extremely merciless towards their victims. An immoral and perverse life style like a gay life style, can lead to extreme cruelness as represented by the Nazis.

Interesting that while many nazis were homosexuals, the majority were heterosexuals.  Should we analyze why this was the case.  I prefer frank discussion about these issues.  The problem with some of the people onthis forum is that there is a demand for hegemony of thought.  When someone presents a contrary point of few, people pounce on the person, completely distorting what was in fact said.  I mean Amon Goeth was a heterosexual sadist, no one is discoursing on his heterosexual sadism as pathology.  However the minute someone is a homosexual that becomes the root of everything else that is wrong with the person.  When a heterosexual behaves similarly, it's a 'fluke'

[JTFenthusiast2]

I think the biggest threat from showers is usually athlete's foot, but is it possible that flesh eating bacteria could also be there?

I think one might catch MRSA and other germs and fungi from the gym apparatus (apparata ? ti ? ). The shower is a little safer I imagine, because there is constant draining of water and also the feet have a thick protective layer of skin.

But in any case there are more dangerous places and objects that can get one sick: door knobs, keyboards, faucet handles, uncooked meat and fish, hot tubs, ...

I was just thinking of it because I thought I remembered an article about MRSA being a problem among gay men a while back and they were spreading it through skin-to-skin contact. You're probably right that the shower might not be a spot where it's likely to get it. However I have heard of people who are wade fishing getting it from cutting themselves in the water.

Rubystars, many people particularly health care workers are colonized with MRSa, particularly in their nares.  What determines whether or not someone develops a fulminant case of MRSA is multifactorial.  I am happy to exaplin this further if you are interested.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Homosexuality is no sickness - it is sin.

So is not looking at your own deviant behavior (past or present) while condeming other people as if you are better than they

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman wrote:

"JTFEnthusiast,
You are making a straw man argument here. I never said I thought you could catch these things by sitting next to, or shaking hands with gays... I dont know where you got this from. I simply said that I would not want to be in a shower with people who may be carrying dangerous plagues. I am sure that you know that for many years that gays pretended that aids was not real. Science also learns things over time and there are things we don't know at this time about these germs. It is best to stay far, far away from sickness like this.

If you expect me to say a good word about the gay lifestyle you will not hear me say it. My experience with those who live like that is very bad and I encourage all who want to be righteous in the eye of the G-d of Israel to steer clear of it."

Once again Muman, you demonstrate that when it comes to homosexuality, you lose your ability to comprehend what was written.  I am sorry that you are so ignorant, mostly for other people and less for you at this point.  No one asked you to say a "good word about the gay lifestyle."  I've left the lifestyle, so clearly I wouldn't be demanding you to say anything in praise of it.  Your comments about showering next to gay people and your fear of catching something by just being in the shower with them is insane.  You want to defame the Torah by bringing it into your ignorance, that's on your soul. 

Trying to get you to accept basic logic re:  bacteriology/virology an 8th grader could appreciate is a poor use of my time

[JTFenthusiast2]

In the end, I'm sure JTFEnthusiast2 will kill his son if he was practicing animal sex like the sub-human faggots do.

Homosexuality is just like Feminism - suicide for societies.

Yehudah, you silly ignorant person who thinks joking about killing one's child is remotely entertaining or funny.  If I had a son who was caught having "animal sex" I would realize he needed serious psychiatric help and I would love him and get him that help while making sure he did no harm to others.  You on the other hand would probably stone him.  Keep telling yourself what a righteous moral individual you are.

[muman613]

Muman wrote:

"JTFEnthusiast,
You are making a straw man argument here. I never said I thought you could catch these things by sitting next to, or shaking hands with gays... I dont know where you got this from. I simply said that I would not want to be in a shower with people who may be carrying dangerous plagues. I am sure that you know that for many years that gays pretended that aids was not real. Science also learns things over time and there are things we don't know at this time about these germs. It is best to stay far, far away from sickness like this.

If you expect me to say a good word about the gay lifestyle you will not hear me say it. My experience with those who live like that is very bad and I encourage all who want to be righteous in the eye of the G-d of Israel to steer clear of it."

Once again Muman, you demonstrate that when it comes to homosexuality, you lose your ability to apprehend what was written.  I am sorry that you are so ignorant, mostly for other people and less for you at this point.  No one asked you to say a "good word about the gay lifestyle."  I've left the lifestyle, so clearly I wouldn't be demanding you to say anything in praise of it.  Your comments about showering next to gay peple and your fear of catching something by just being in the shower with them is insane.  You want to defame the Torah by bringing it into your ignorance, that's on your soul. 

Trying to get you to accept basic logic re:  bacteriology/virology an 8th grader could appreciate is a poor use of my time

Listen my fiend, you are in no position to lecture me on anything...

I am fully aware of what science knows at this time. But I am old enough to know that science is just a tool in mans hands, and we learn new things every day. Just because now we don't know something, doesn't mean that it is not true. I will avoid the danger and steer clear of all those who openly engage in perversion because in the end they will get what is coming to them. Everything in this world works on the principle of Level for Level, or Eye for Eye, Tooth for Tooth, etc.

Maybe you think you can get away with it... But nobody gets away with anything. You think you are so smart and you can determine the risks of your abominable behavior. All sinners think this way and have complete rationalization for their actions {as you do}.

I can care less if you think Im ignorant. I think you are insane and since you persist in pushing your gay agenda I am beginning to get the feeling you don't really belong at JTF. We are a righteous group and people who try to blur the lines of what is acceptable, as you do, should not be welcome here..

[Rubystars]

Rubystars, many people particularly health care workers are colonized with MRSa, particularly in their nares.  What determines whether or not someone develops a fulminant case of MRSA is multifactorial.  I am happy to exaplin this further if you are interested.

I'm remembering my biology classes that nares usually refers to the nostrils. Is that what you mean? I have an image in my head of a chart showing a fetal pig and lines going to the nostrils labeled "nares".

What are the multiple factors that can lead to a serious infection?

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman,

You can't read.  I have posted tens of times that I do not and have not acted on my homosexual inclinations for sometime, yet you keep repeating that I am.  Are you cognitively challenged or what?  Are you repeating it because it serves a purpose for you in your argument?  if so, that demonstrates what a completely amoral person you are

Furthermore, you are NO ONE to tell me where I do or do not belong.  I have many friends on this forum and I am a zionist and a Jew, so screw off with your telling me where I belong.  I don't need to kowtow to you to be a part of this forum.  I am here, if you don't like it too bad. I have every right to respond to your abject stupidity that you can catch an STD by standing next to someone in a shower.  Too bad if you don't like it

[muman613]

Muman,

You can't read.  I have posted tens of times that I do not and have not acted on my homosexual inclinations for sometime, yet you keep repeating that I am.  Are you cognitively challenged or what?  Are you repeating it because it serves a purpose for you in your argument?  if so, that demonstrates what a completely amoral person you are

Furthermore, you are NO ONE to tell me where I do or do not belong.  I have many friends on this forum and I am a zionist and a Jew, so screw off with your telling me where I belong.  I don't need to kowtow to you to be a part of this forum.  I am here, if you don't like it too bad. I have every right to respond to your abject stupidity that you can catch an STD by standing next to someone in a shower.  Too bad if you don't like it

It seems to me you are just trying to avoid feeling any remorse for your misdeeds. You will lead others astray when you minimize the damage which you have done. Also you once again say that I said that you can catch STD from the shower. I simply said that it is better, in my mind, to be safe than sorry. We do know that germs have been able to mutate and spread {witness the H1N1 virus which mutated and spread from animals to humans}.

Nothing happens in this world without a reason. This is the bedrock of faith {from a Jewish perspective}. Either you learn from your mistakes or you may die as a result of them.

In my opinion, in this thread, you have been the one to call me 'ignorant' amongst other things. You make this statement simply based on the fact that I don't want to risk my health and my life in order to be around openly active homosexuals.

I sure hope you are telling us the truth...

PS: JTFEnthusiast... You are getting too full of yourself. Ive been here at JTF over 2 1/2 years and have 6400+ posts under my belt... You on the other hand have around 500... I think I have a right to say what is acceptable here at JTF, they even made me a moderator..

[takebackourtemple]

And now the faggots will get even more free health care. I haven't read the 3600 page bill, but would be real surprised if it had a clause forcing faggots to pay their fare share for treatment of stds.

[JTFenthusiast2]

RubyStars,

Excellent question.  MRSA stands for Methicillin resistant Staph aureus.  You are 100 percent correct, nares refer to the insides of the nostrils.  All over our bodies are different 'flora,' or organisms.  When they are in certain proportions, the different organisms are in a kind of balance.  Importantly, they are blocked by the largest organ of the immune system, our skin.  Staph aureus is a particularly dangerous organism when it penetrates into a person's blood stream.  This usually happens when the organism gets past the first layer of a person's immune system defenses through large cuts or through wounds.  MRSA is more dangerous because it is resistant to standard extended spectrum penicillins which are very strong drugs.  The main drug we use for the treatment of MRSA bacteremia (blood infections) is IV vancomycin.  Vancomycin kills MRSA.  

Some factors that can cause a person to experience an increased mortality form MRSA are:

1) age
2) immune system status
3) other comorbid illnesses (e.g.: prolonged periods of other physical illnesses, immunosuppression caused by drugs that we use to treat cancer patients, being ventilator dependent, diabetes and therefore impaired circulation

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman,

You don't control freedom of speech here. I make my points based on what you say. You don't listen, you don't read and you lie about things that I have never said.   I am here because I am a zionist and a Jew!  If you're going to make fictitious remarks about catching stds from standing in the same shower room with someone--expect a response.  My problem with you is that you have no tolerance for different opinions.  But what I find really offensive about your behavior is your outright mendacity, your lying.  You mischaracterize everything I say and do so deliberately.  In every response to my posts, you throw in lies about what I have allegedly said.  The majority of my responses are refuting your propaganda about what I allegedly have said or believe.  You are not fooling me for one minute.

You are doing exactly what Goebbels did, you say the same dishonest thing over and over again, in the hopes that it will stick.  This is why in every post to you, I spent half the post stating that you are mischaracterizing me.  I'm not stupid Muman, and neither are the other people on this forum

[Zelhar]

Muman, do you think one can catch gayness by standing too close to an infected person in the showers ?

[muman613]

Muman,

You don't control freedom of speech here. I make my points based on what you say. You don't listen, you don't read and you lie about things that I have never said.   I am here because I am a zionist and a Jew!  If you're going to make fictitious remarks about catching stds from standing in the same shower room with someone--expect a response.  My problem with you is that you have no tolerance for different opinions.  But what I find really offensive about your behavior is your outright mendacity, your lying.  You mischaracterize everything I say and do so deliberately.  In every response to my posts, you throw in lies about what I have allegedly said.  The majority of my responses are refuting your propaganda about what I allegedly have said or believe.  You are not fooling me for one minute.

You are doing exactly what Goebbels did, you say the same dishonest thing over and over again, in the hopes that it will stick.  This is why in every post to you, I spent half the post stating that you are mischaracterizing me.  I'm not stupid Muman, and neither are the other people on this forum

You are really nuts, aren't you... I have never said that taking a shower with gays gives you STDs... Stop saying that is what I am saying...

Here is what I said in my 1st post : http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,44265.0.html

Regardless, it is a sickness which needs to be dealt with. Gay men are a danger to other men... I would never shower in the same showers as any gay men for fear of germs. I know some will argue with me, but too bad... I will not take a chance dealing with people with such perversions.

Did I say that showering with gay men gives a person STD? No I didn't... I said that I would not do it because of fear of germs. I did not say that I would get STDs but because there are germs, and as I said numerous times, those germs are mutating, I would rather not expose myself to those germs.

You say I have no tolerance for other opinions... How odd... I have tolerated much more than most on JTF. I have historically been very open minded and as a result 15 years of my life was spent as a Deadhead hippie {even as I kept my software engineering jobs in the 80s-90s}. I am very forgiving of a persons faults and I am the 1st one to try to help people in need. I help homeless people through my charity and I also provide room in my house to help the poor.

My problem with you is that you started in with me calling me names and making accusations which are false. To call me Goebbels indicates what kind of person you are.

Unless you find it within yourself to apologize to me for your false accusations against me then I will not forgive you. I hope you do not make yourself into an enemy of mine. If you are truly Jewish, possess the Jewish soul, and you seek the truth then odds are that you will get along with me... Otherwise I expect our relationship to be an adversarial one..

[muman613]

Muman, do you think one can catch gayness by standing too close to an infected person in the showers ?

Zelhar,

Are you being stupid?

A persons sexual attraction is the result of a complex behavioral process. There is no way one can catch 'gayness' from another through a shower. But the issue which I brought up concerns the dirtiness of the homosexual sex act, the related infection of germs which cause a variety of STDs, and the fact that spiritual infections are reflected in physical infections.

[Rubystars]

JTFEnthusiast, is it possible that since AIDS is more common among the homosexual population, that they could be more susceptible to carrying MRSA infection because of their weakened immune system, and possibly deposit this bacteria in a shower? This might be a stretch but I've heard of swabs being taken finding it on places like shopping carts and playground equipment.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman,
You state,  "But the issue which I brought up concerns the dirtiness of the homosexual sex act, the related infection of germs which cause a variety of STDs, and the fact that spiritual infections are reflected in physical infections"  This is exactly the kind of mendacity of which I speak.  Our conversation was about showering next to someone, now you are introducing sex acts.  This is why you are an untrustworthy person because you argue in a very dishonest way.

[Zelhar]

Muman, do you think one can catch gayness by standing too close to an infected person in the showers ?

Zelhar,

Are you being stupid?

A persons sexual attraction is the result of a complex behavioral process. There is no way one can catch 'gayness' from another through a shower. But the issue which I brought up concerns the dirtiness of the homosexual sex act, the related infection of germs which cause a variety of STDs, and the fact that spiritual infections are reflected in physical infections.

Maybe I was being a little silly.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Sorry Zelhar,

I misused the quoting function.  I was trying to delete some of the background quotes so I could type more.  My apologies.