Author Topic: JTF Members Unite  (Read 14064 times)

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Offline muman613

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JTF Members Unite
« on: May 24, 2010, 10:37:55 PM »
I can't speak for others here at JTF but personally I have felt a lot of animosity between some long term JTF members. I am disappointed by this because I am one who davens each day for Jewish unity, and peace in Jerusalem and the world. When brothers and sisters fight amongst each other, for petty reasons {like honor and fame}, it damages the fabric of the world, and more specifically it damages the possibility that we will witness the coming of Moshiach.

We all have disagreements with those around us in life. How many of us have problems with our own immediate families? In my older age I have learned to put aside my hurts from childhood and to move on, to honor my parents properly, as the Torah instructs us to. I have always recommended to JTF members to make sure that they have some connection with their parents. There is a Torah reason for this, but I will save it for a later time.

The Torah also commands the Jew to love his neighbor. Of course the sages interpret neighbor to mean our fellow Jew. So those readers who are Jewish must take care not to offend another Jew, and if you yourself feel insulted, please try to withhold lashing back. Because to do so may be a chillul Hashem.

But we are dealing with JTF members, and we are a bunch who often has a finger on the trigger. In a world where we feel attacked day in and day out we must act in order to defend ourselves. It is an important Jewish trait of self defense which the Talmud itself brings, that if one rises to kill you then you are commanded to rise early and kill the one who plots to kill you. But this is referring to physical killing of another. It is possible to kill someone with words. And this is why our sages learned from the Torah the laws of Lashon Hara. It is said one who speaks Lashon Hara kills three people, the one who spoke, the one who heard, and the one spoken about.

The Jewish people are strong and thrive when we allow each Jew to shine his special light into the world. I am not talking about liberal and progressives who attempt to bend the Torah to their world view. I am saying that every Jew who we can consider our neighbor {having ideas and beliefs similar to ourselves} must be given honor and respect.

I have been guilty of disrespecting some here. And I am very sorry because I really do regret my errors. I apologize to any Jew specifically, and any gentile more generally. People who know me know I love virtually all humanity and have the desire to see people succeed. Hashem has dealt kindly with me for the most part and I thank Hashem every day for the skills and the intellect he has granted me. Everyone needs to look at the good in their life and appreciate it. The word Jew comes from the Hebrew Yehuda, which contains the hebrew base Hoda which means to say thank you.

Let us be thankful that we have a forum where we can share our ideas. JTFs ideas are not mainstream and there are very few places where we can discuss these topics without fear. I would like to ask for every member involved in the recent Machlokes to step away from the keyboard and think about Jewish Unity.

Thank you,
MUMAN613

Quote
http://www.jewishmag.com/21mag/mendel/mendel.htm
Still, I wondered, how did the tribe of Judah get its name. As it is related in the Book of Genesis, when Leah, the first wife of Jacob, bore him his fourth son, she was extraordinarily happy. Jacob had four wives and twelve sons were destined to be born from his seed. Therefore, by being blessed with four sons, she now bore a greater share in the future Jewish tribes than the other three wives. In her joy she exclaimed, "This time let me gratefully praise (odeh) G-d! Therefore she called his name Judah" (Gen.29:35) meaning praise. The root word " Hodeh" means thanksgiving as well as praise and it is used in colloquial Hebrew today. (i.e. todah meaning thank you). So the first characteristic I found in the name Jew is the idea of praising G-d and a sense of gratefulness for being given perhaps more than one deserves.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 10:44:05 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline RightWingGentile

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2010, 10:40:20 PM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2010, 10:41:20 PM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

Seriously now, are you Gimatria?


Offline Mishmaat

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2010, 10:44:22 PM »
Seriously now, are you Gimatria?

Nope. He's not.

Offline muman613

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2010, 10:45:19 PM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

RWG,

I do not want a problem with you specifically. As I said I feel that my first responsibility is to preserve Jewish peace, and by doing so I will also have peace with the Gentiles.

And I agree that the world is big enough for the Jews and righteous gentiles...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Gimatria

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2010, 10:48:01 PM »
Ron ben Michael:
does it not stand to reason that two childhood friends - working from an early age towards realizing the dream of a sovereign, powerful, Torah-true Israel and strong righteous gentile lead America - would have similar viewpoints, prose styles, and articulation?
Obviously one can easily dispel the myth that we are the same person in myriad different ways. Eem ata chacham, ata yachol liftor et ha she'elah!

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2010, 10:48:39 PM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG
GET OFF YOUR HIGHHORSE. I am a Gentile too and how come I am not offended?

Offline Gimatria

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2010, 10:49:42 PM »
Praise to the great Mishmaat, who has once again displayed his courage and good sense by dispelling this preposterous myth that myself and the great rWg are one and the same.

Offline RightWingGentile

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2010, 10:53:21 PM »
DBF - you aren't offended because you are clearly a self-hating gentile! Why else would you tell a fellow righteous gentile (actually, I hesitate to use the word "fellow", as the implication is that you are righteous as well, and you clearly are a boged) to choke on his own vomit and die? Why else would you send a hateful message like that?

Why else would you wish death upon a fellow gentile? Especially one who is so right-wing - and such a PATRIOT - IT'S A DISGRACE!!!!

AND ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2010, 10:58:27 PM »
Especially one who is so right-wing - and such a PATRIOT - IT'S A DISGRACE!!!!

AND ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG
Sheesh Louise.  ::) ::) ::)
 :laugh: :::D :laugh:

Offline RightWingGentile

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 12:22:10 AM »
Ruby, with all due respect (and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, true patriot and courageous female that you are!), there can be no other meaning to his words. He chose them carefully. He has said many times before that he cares less for gentile problems - and I have said many times that I respect him for that, as he is a Jew. With this information in tow, there can be no doubt that his inference was what I took it to be.

RWG

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 12:28:01 AM »
Ruby, with all due respect (and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, true patriot and courageous female that you are!), there can be no other meaning to his words. He chose them carefully. He has said many times before that he cares less for gentile problems - and I have said many times that I respect him for that, as he is a Jew. With this information in tow, there can be no doubt that his inference was what I took it to be.

RWG
How come you are the only Gentile who has a problem with him?

Offline muman613

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 12:34:55 AM »
Ruby, with all due respect (and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, true patriot and courageous female that you are!), there can be no other meaning to his words. He chose them carefully. He has said many times before that he cares less for gentile problems - and I have said many times that I respect him for that, as he is a Jew. With this information in tow, there can be no doubt that his inference was what I took it to be.

RWG

RWG,

What concerns me is that I try to obey our Torah as best I can. I am sure you have heard the term Avodat Yisroel before? It is the commandment to Jews to Love your fellow Jew. I am willing to have people who stand against me, but I hope that it is not a righteous Jew. Of course I don't know who is righteous and who is not. So I also live by the command to give the other Jew the benefit of the doubt.

As you point out these commands relate to the interaction of one Jew to another. But our commandments also tell us that we must also respect and honor the nations of the world. Maybe you have heard about the offerings which were made after the holiday of Sukkot. During that service we brought 70 offerings for all the 70 nations of the world. I will include a link and some description of this below...

I am a proud Jew who gets along very well with the nations around me. I work with people from all over the world. I have friends who are gentiles and I know several converts who are righteous. I also admire the Noachides and the Christians at JTF who are learning and trying to do the righteous thing. I am supportive and helpful to those who ask me for advice, for knowledge, and for time or money.

I really am sorry that you feel that I started on the wrong foot with you. It does seem to me that you really believe you know what is right, and will stand up for it. This a quite admirable and if things started out differently I am sure that I would not harbor any bad feelings.

If you really are righteous and do stand for the goals which JTF promotes then I hope that we can have a productive career working with Chaim and the other members here to make JTF more popular in this world. Hashem knows that time may be running out and we need as many supporters for the cause as we can get.

I hope that my words can bring you to understand why I wrote what I wrote. You should not infer that I am insulting non-Jews by saying what I said.

Thank you

Quote
http://www.aish.com/h/su/tai/48954136.html
The Talmud teaches:

    Rabbi Eliezer said: "Why are 70 offerings brought on Sukkot? For the (merit of the) 70 nations of the world." (Sukkah 55b)

Rashi comments:

   To bring forgiveness for them (the 70 nations which comprise the world), so that rain shall fall all over the earth.

The Sages stress that Sukkot has a universal element which is clearly absent in the other festivals: Passover represents the exodus from Egypt and the emergence of a Jewish nation; Shavuot celebrates the giving of the Torah to the Jews. It seems paradoxical to find this expression of the inability of the pagans to relate to G-d specifically in the context of Sukkot.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 01:29:28 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 04:09:16 AM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

What did Muman need to apologize for?  Isn't your complaint with dr brennan fan?

I don't know exactly what all this is about or what was the original source of this argument, but being petty and making accusations is not going to solve anything.   Let's end all this fighting, people.

Offline nessuno

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 04:16:52 AM »
Ruby, with all due respect (and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, true patriot and courageous female that you are!), there can be no other meaning to his words. He chose them carefully. He has said many times before that he cares less for gentile problems - and I have said many times that I respect him for that, as he is a Jew. With this information in tow, there can be no doubt that his inference was what I took it to be.

RWG
How come you are the only Gentile who has a problem with him?
I'm sorry to disagree with you Dr. Brennan Fan.
It bothered me, too. 
Muman doesn't always have to point out his feelings about Gentiles.
Especially in a thread promoting unity.  Sometimes silence on the subject would be golden.
I will never feel united with Muman.  He makes that clear in many of his posts. 
I'm just glad for all the great Jewish people in my life.  They help strengthen the conviction of my beliefs.

Sorry - Kahane-Was-Right BT.  I saw your post about ending the fighting, but I had to put my two cents in.



Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2010, 05:11:15 AM »
Good post. Guys let's keep the debates real without the personal attacks. PM eachother if you feel you have the diarrhea of the keyboard and don't poison the forum with diatribe.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2010, 05:42:26 AM »
בס''ד

Muman's appeal for unity should be praised.

I was saddened to see the bitter personal attacks and cursing of members on the forum.

I appeal to all of our members who care about our noble cause to end these attacks.

Offline christians4jews

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2010, 06:17:33 AM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

RWG,

I do not want a problem with you specifically. As I said I feel that my first responsibility is to preserve Jewish peace, and by doing so I will also have peace with the Gentiles.

And I agree that the world is big enough for the Jews and righteous gentiles...


i agree with your original psot, but what makes it hard to believe is that you were one of the culprits that was starting the arguements, with both jewish and non jewish members.

You, dr brennan fan, ron etc were throwing accusations of "nazi", "peadophile" and "faggots", to obviously very coherent members of RWG and Gimatria, one being jewish and one being gentile.

I backed up ben (normal atheist) from the word go, everyone else said "no way he s a jew hes a neo nazi and a troll", and look what happend, it turns out hes a young jew in israel.

Just because you dr brennan fan, ron etc hate black people less than 70 percent of this board, does not mean 70 percent of this board of nazis.

Add the fact that you claimed disgracefully that american issues are not important and "secondary". im in the UK and i am terribly concerned about americas plight, as they are part of western civilisation. Plus the fact that chaim lives there and you dont care about america is bad form.

I think although we are not technically A RACIST  organization, but lets be honest, media wise, we are. Why should we stop that?

Ben a young jew, gimatria and RWG all are new members. BTW there are alot of posters inclding me that agree with their posts, yet the rudeness of some of our more "experienced" members" has been nothing less than disgraceful.

i hope we all agree to disagree, and all agree chaims right ;)


Offline Ben m

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2010, 06:38:32 AM »
This is double-talk at its finest. You won't apologize to me specifically because I'm a gentile? JTF has always been about righteous gentiles and Jews working hand in hand, TOGETHER, to save America and Israel! ZOT HI UVDA!

RWG

RWG,

I do not want a problem with you specifically. As I said I feel that my first responsibility is to preserve Jewish peace, and by doing so I will also have peace with the Gentiles.

And I agree that the world is big enough for the Jews and righteous gentiles...


i agree with your original psot, but what makes it hard to believe is that you were one of the culprits that was starting the arguements, with both jewish and non jewish members.

You, dr brennan fan, ron etc were throwing accusations of "nazi", "peadophile" and "faggots", to obviously very coherent members of RWG and Gimatria, one being jewish and one being gentile.

I backed up ben (normal atheist) from the word go, everyone else said "no way he s a jew hes a neo nazi and a troll", and look what happend, it turns out hes a young jew in israel.

Just because you dr brennan fan, ron etc hate black people less than 70 percent of this board, does not mean 70 percent of this board of nazis.

Add the fact that you claimed disgracefully that american issues are not important and "secondary". im in the UK and i am terribly concerned about americas plight, as they are part of western civilisation. Plus the fact that chaim lives there and you dont care about america is bad form.

I think although we are not technically A RACIST  organization, but lets be honest, media wise, we are. Why should we stop that?

Ben a young jew, gimatria and RWG all are new members. BTW there are alot of posters inclding me that agree with their posts, yet the rudeness of some of our more "experienced" members" has been nothing less than disgraceful.

i hope we all agree to disagree, and all agree chaims right ;)


i am agree.and right wing genitile don't worry.as a secular jew i am very offended by this post.i know some of the older memebers here hates me beacuse i am a secular and i am very concerned about wite and indian problems.you and brennan fan started almost every arguments we had and ths attacks must stop.
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2010, 08:03:52 AM »
There are some people on here who think that JTF shouldn't work with us. Let them be unified with themselves and see how far that gets them.

It doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I don't have to treat them as equal either if I don't want to and I'm not obligated to feel like I should be unified with individuals who don't respect me.

Let them run their mouths/keyboards and show who they are.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2010, 08:03:57 AM »
I don't think muman was ever rude and that certain members like rwg and dbf have loose trigger fingers. I think the more experienced JTF members on these race issues agree on the same thing as the more outspoken new JTFers. Its just that many of us who have been on this forum longer express ourselves in a soft more PC way. The media is racist and we are out here to prove that its not color but behavior and that 99 percent of that bad behavior just happen to come from those people with colored skin, but that this evil behavior is not exclusive to them. Jews and whites do it too and we detest it just as much.

We can't turn into a movement obsessed with race. We, however, are a movement that is obsessed with evil cultures and behaviors and that includes the majority of blacks.

In as much we hate PC, it will be better to, every so often, clarify that it isn't the race we hate but the evil culture.  Chaim does that a lot. And for the more "PC" crowd to every so often say that they aren't being PC and that it is true that the majority of a certain group have an evil culture.

With every legit movement out there we should clarify our stance and never compromise if it is going to lead to evil 
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2010, 08:18:06 AM »
I don't think muman was ever rude and that certain members like rwg and dbf have loose trigger fingers. I think the more experienced JTF members on these race issues agree on the same thing as the more outspoken new JTFers. Its just that many of us who have been on this forum longer express ourselves in a soft more PC way. The media is racist and we are out here to prove that its not color but behavior and that 99 percent of that bad behavior just happen to come from those people with colored skin, but that this evil behavior is not exclusive to them. Jews and whites do it too and we detest it just as much.

We can't turn into a movement obsessed with race. We, however, are a movement that is obsessed with evil cultures and behaviors and that includes the majority of blacks.

In as much we hate PC, it will be better to, every so often, clarify that it isn't the race we hate but the evil culture.  Chaim does that a lot. And for the more "PC" crowd to every so often say that they aren't being PC and that it is true that the majority of a certain group have an evil culture.

With every legit movement out there we should clarify our stance and never compromise if it is going to lead to evil 

co-signed. :)
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

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Offline arksis

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2010, 09:28:05 AM »
We are ALL here for one reason, and one reason only. We must UNITE and stand together AGAINST what is evil EVERYWHERE. Is this how you would treat your brothers and sisters inside your OWN home? I think not!

Bullcat, I thank you for your honesty and speaking out. I too, have felt the same way, and even considered quitting JTF because of such hurtful words from some here. I guess some Jews will NEVER understand how a Gentile feels in their heart about standing up for Israel and how important it is. :'(
---Never, ever deal with terrorists. Hunt them down and, more important, mercilessly punish those states and groups that fund, arm, support, or simply allow their territories to be used by the terrorists with impunity.
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Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2010, 09:46:53 AM »

JTF workers unite!!
JTF belongs to the people!
Abolish the admins!
Down with the mods!
The revolution must begin NOW!
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ

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Re: JTF Members Unite
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2010, 09:47:07 AM »
Jewish unity is a must, If evil is to be defeated. Evil can come in any form. We all have to focus on JTF's primary agenda. Israel is being pushed back by politicians, someone its own, and some others. In such adversity we should be devoting more time to educating others, rather than arguing with fellow members, And i didnt mean this for muman, its meant for the new members.