Author Topic: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews  (Read 14652 times)

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Offline Hamantashen

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Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« on: May 25, 2010, 04:47:35 PM »
The following is an interesting documentary about gay Orthodox frum Jews that I first saw on Logo television network called "Trembling Before G-d".  I will link to it and hope JTFers watch it and comment on it AFTER they watch it.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/76545/trembling-before-g-d

It takes 84 minutes.  It is worth watching.  CHAIM, I SUGGEST YOU WATCH IT, ALSO.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 12:06:59 PM by Hamantaschen »

Offline muman613

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Re: Trembling Before G-d
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 04:49:43 PM »
I sure hope that any Jews who are gay will get the help they need. It is possible to control the evil inclination with strength, faith, and love. I do not oppress the gay, but I certainly do not condone that lifestyle. If this film is about Jews who have transgressed who now are making Teshuva then I support them. If they attempt to lessen the extent of their transgression then I certainly condemn them..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 05:01:51 PM »
@mumam613:  Watch it.  84 minutes is not a long time.  
p.s.- I am NOT gay.  But I do believe there should be a place for gay Jews who are well behaved and keep their gayness under wraps in the frum community.  Again, NOT all gays can you take to a party or invite to your wedding but we shouldn't through out the baby with the placenta.  Watch it and I would be interested in your comment afterwards.

Keep it under wraps?   These are people who would NOT get married?  Or would they deceive people and cheat on spouses they never really committed to?   

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 05:24:12 PM »
@Kahane Was Right:  This is the last time I will say this.
WATCH THE FRIGGIN' MOVIE BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT IT IN THE ABSTRACT!!!!

You stated an opinion about keeping things under wraps.  I only asked you for a clarification of what you meant.  I don't have time to watch the movie right now.  Maybe ever.

Believe it or not, I've actually seen clips of this movie before, possibly the whole thing or close to the whole thing, but I don't remember if I saw all of it or not.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 07:53:04 PM »
Hamantashen, this forum is filled with people who point the finger at everyone else, yet somehow never look in the mirror.  Sometimes, I think G-d weeps when looking at the egoism of some here BTW, I am NOT talking about the other people on this thread necessarily.

Offline TheCoon

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 08:01:47 PM »
Any way to view this at a non-Hulu location? Hulu can't be streamed to Canada.
The city isn't what it used to be. It all happened so fast. Everything went to crap. It's like... everyone's sense of morals just disappeared. Bad economy made things worse. Jobs started drying up, then the stores had to shut down. Then a black man was elected president. He was supposed to change things. He didn't. More and more people turned to crime and violence... The town becomes gripped with fear. Dark times, dark times... I am the hero this town needs. I am... The Coon!!!

Offline muman613

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 08:06:29 PM »
Hamantashen, this forum is filled with people who point the finger at everyone else, yet somehow never look in the mirror.  Sometimes, I think G-d weeps when looking at the egoism of some here BTW, I am NOT talking about the other people on this thread necessarily.

But some are truly concerned with the better good of society. Some people actually are concerned for the soul and spirit of every Jew, and every human being. To stand against a lifestyle which is against our religion is not necessarily hate. I deal with all kinds of Jews and I don't know what the sexual orientation of every one is. It is not something which I spend much time worrying about.

I am wont to say that those who violate Shabbat are just as culpable as those who engage in Homosexual sex.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 08:10:36 PM »
Search for it on Tudou.com

http://www.tudou.com/

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 08:17:33 PM »
They made a sequel which is even better!

It's called Queer as a 3 Dollar Bill!    :P    >:(

Offline RightWingGentile

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 08:33:26 PM »
These filthy, deviant sodomites will be going to Gehenom - lest they change their soul-destroying ways!

RWG

Offline muman613

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 08:48:09 PM »
These filthy, deviant sodomites will be going to Gehenom - lest they change their soul-destroying ways!

RWG

Along with all those who transgress Shabbat... Both of these transgressions are deemed worthy of death. Once again the only thing Torah prohibits is the actual act of homo sex... It does not talk about same sex attraction. I see the problem with homosexuals as one of being able to control the evil inclination. Some people are addicted to Internet porn and engage in behavior which the Torah prohibits {Onanism, etc.}.

Jewish belief is that sex is pleasant because it is intended to be done with your wife {for a man}. A man should love his wife, and provide her with pleasure... But when we use this gift which Hashem gave us for our own pleasure, and basically use the equipment which G-d gave us for purposes which he did not intend, then the individual is battling his evil inclination...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/465161/jewish/The-Purposes-of-Marriage.htm
Quote
Because procreation is the purpose of sex, the wanton wasting of seed (hashchatat zera) was prohibited. There are three principal forms of this wasting. The first is onanism, which refers to coitus interruptus. Onan (Genesis 38:9) "went in unto his brother's wife and spilled [seed] on the ground." The Rabbis call this "threshing within and winnowing without." The second is contraception, which is permitted only in limited circumstances, as will be discussed later in this chapter. The third is masturbation. Although current psychological literature almost unanimously endorses this practice as natural, useful, and even desirable, Jewish law and tradition look upon it as wrong. The blessing of G‑d is not to be wasted for any reason; it must retain its naturalness and its integrity. Thus the blessing may be spent only within the legitimate moral confines of marriage.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline AsheDina

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 08:51:22 PM »
Leviticus 18
כב  וְאֶת-זָכָר--לֹא תִשְׁכַּב, מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה:  תּוֹעֵבָה, הִוא.  22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination. 
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Offline muman613

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 08:55:10 PM »
Leviticus 18
כב  וְאֶת-זָכָר--לֹא תִשְׁכַּב, מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה:  תּוֹעֵבָה, הִוא.  22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination. 

yes, this is the prohibition on man-on-man sex...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 10:04:12 PM »
No thanks, if I want to see a video clip of filthy sodomites I'll Youtube Eminem.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 10:13:47 PM »
I didn't see the video yet, but I do want to make a comment:

Some homosexuals have the inclination they have because they were born that way. I have no proof of this but this is what it seems to me.
Those who don't act on it are doing good. Those who act on it or encourage it are doing bad.

We should hate the behavior and those who encourage others to do it.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2010, 10:24:03 PM »
I feel compassion for people struggling with this and I hope that with God's help they can learn to control their behavior and not act on it.

Offline Hamantashen

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2010, 10:54:54 PM »
Great!  We all hate homosexuality, including Hashem but who has watched the flick?  I am not gay and don't recommend the lifestyle.  I am just suggesting that as aware Jews, these conditions do enter the discourse of Jewish life and this film handles the subject intelligently.  Are you afraid that if you see a gay themed documentary or talk to a gay person, it will turn you gay?  Also, what would you do if one of your sons (daughters) comes to you and says, "Pop, I really think that Schlomo (Sara) is cute"!!  Do you think it could never happen?  With the big families of Charedi and modern Orthodox families and homosexuality being about 2 or 3 percent of the population, guess again.  Do you think that if you immerse them in Torah that it will immunize them from this terrible blight, think again.  What would you do?  Throw him (her) out of the house??  I have a 24 year old son who is straight as an arrow.  There is a kid in our building the same age who is queer as a three dollar bill.  What did I do differently?  Nothing.  In fact, he is a new immigrant, an Uzbeki Bukharian Jew who was prevented from practicing by the yoke of Communism but is now a frum Jew.  On the other hand, my family has been in the U.S. since the 1860's and all I cared about growing up was Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle, the Mercury astronauts and I refused to go to synagogue since I would miss The Time Tunnel, The Green Hornet and Howdy Doody and everyone in my family is straight.  I state this to emphasize that immersion in religious studies or failure to do so is irrelevant when it comes to sexual orientation of a person.  If my son came home one day at age 14 with makeup and lipstick and wearing girls clothes, I still wouldn't kick him out of the house.  You can quote Leviticus all you want until you turn blue but what do you do when your son (daughter) comes home with his (her) boyfriend (girlfriend) and says, "This is the man (woman) I want to spend the rest of my life with"? 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 05:32:50 AM by Hamantaschen »

Offline muman613

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2010, 11:23:09 PM »
Great!  We all hate homosexuality, including Hashem but who has watched the flick?

I'm sorry Hamantaschen but I don't have that much time to watch something which I don't think will interest me. I just finished watching a 43 minute talk by a Rabbi about the Moshiach. I wish I could comment on it in order to satisfy your request.

Why don't you share with us your impression of the video?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2010, 11:24:34 PM »
I feel compassion for people struggling with this and I hope that with G-d's help they can learn to control their behavior and not act on it.
I feel bad for people who have this orientation and are trying to fight it. I have no sympathy for disgusting chazirs who promote this hideous way of life, like Ellen Degeneres, Katy Perry, or Feminem.

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2010, 12:16:54 AM »
I think I may watch the video.  I have no idea what is said there, if its not an apologetic video or junk science promotion [like what mainstream media and television almost always promote] perhaps I will learn something I do not already know.

I do believe that Vayikra is clear as crystal on the matter, as far as living a Torah based life.  From what I see, a Jew chooses to live a life of Torah, or they choose not to.  I believe being made a Jew is the most beautiful thing which can happen to a person, and to shun Torah is a grave insult to HaShem.

Maybe I will have more to say after I watch this movie.  I don't have 84 minutes tonight, possibly tomorrow I will.  If I have more to say I will.
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2010, 12:44:39 AM »
I actually watched the whole thing. I've got to tell you that was heart wrenching stuff. It really made me feel a lot of pain for them because I can see how they're being torn apart inside.

I agree with the Rabbi in the film who told the man that God doesn't give people challenges that they can't meet though. Maybe for some reason God allows certain people to have these inclinations in order to give them a better reward later for fighting them off. I think it's obvious that some people have much harder choices to make than others in life and this may be one example of that.

I felt really bad for the guy who said he wanted to be able to have a wife and children because he'd always dreamed of having kids, but wasn't able to because he couldn't love a woman and marry her.

That's got to be such a daily torment that it's no surprise many people with these issues commit suicide.

I think there would be much better therapies available than the stupid "rubber band" thing if only the psychological profession would work on helping people with these problems rather than denying that it's a problem at all, as they currently do.

It rightly used to be considered to be a paraphilia. Those types of disorders are notoriously hard to treat, but so much progress could have been made if only those in charge of the profession would have loved these people enough to help rather than hurt them by telling them to embrace sin and act on it. Clearly even the Jews in the film who did act on their desires were still in torment not knowing if they had a good relationship with God.

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2010, 06:45:19 AM »
I have heard of methods enabling orgasmic experiences without ejaculation. This would safe and cultivate the seed, diminish desire  and transform the sexual energy.

But what's the deal here? Are you allowed to please your woman with a rubber, or only to make babies?
And what about the womans plight to satisfy her husband?

Offline Hamantashen

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2010, 10:45:21 AM »
@Rubystars and Dan ben Noach:  Thank you both for watching the video and making mature comments.  Nevertheless neither of you answered my core question:  What would you do if one day, one of your grown teenage kids said, "Dad, I'm gay.  It's not a phase or a fad.  It's for real and I've felt this way since I was young.  I've tried and I can't change"? 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 03:27:51 PM by Hamantaschen »

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2010, 10:48:14 AM »
For anyone Jew or non-Jew perplexed by the issue of homosexuality:

Judaism at its essence is the sanctification of that which is holy.

Ha'Shem gave to the Jew and to no other people His Law as direct, Divine Revelation in the form of a Covenant called Torah, through which we are called out from among the other nations to live as a Nation of Priests serving the One True G-d of the Universe.

Torah isn't "accepting" of all ideas and behaviors as divine and holy!

Torah allows for mankind only those behaviors which G-d defines as acceptable.

Torah recognizes that the 'animal' side of human nature contains impulses, emotions, and thoughts which if acted upon, reduce us to a state lower than other animals, with the subsequent reduction of the entire world to a state of disorder.

Through Torah, the Jew learns and understands that there is a Holiness, Sanctity, and a Realm of the Spiritual, far removed from our lowly animal impulses, and that by observing G-d's Law and obeying our Covenant with Him, we make separate and elevated our human nature from that of an animal.

Judaism recognizes that man is created a spiritual entity inhabiting a mortal physical body which in many ways resembles that of other animals.

Other nations worship at the feet of statues, or claim their human leader to be the G-dhead incarnate --

Torah commands the Jew to worship The One Creator G-d of the Universe - spiritual, infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, and immaterial.

Other nations elevate conquest, murder, destruction, and death --

Torah commands the Jew to improve the Earth, forbids us the act of murder, and orders us to choose life over death in every circumstance.

Other nations elevate the hunting and eating of animals for food; some peoples as well even hunting and eating other men as food --

Torah commands the Jew not only to know which food G-d considers acceptable for man to eat, but also instructs us how to properly slaughter animals, how to properly prepare food and eat it, and even how to bless our food in order to sanctify our G-d who created it for us.

Many nations use the same body of water for depositing human waste, bathing, and for a source for drinking water --

Torah details how Jews must wash their hands even before eating food, and commands Jews to use pure water to cleanse our bodies and symbolically purify our souls.

Prior to Torah homosexuality was a universally practiced act, considered by the ancient Greeks as the 'highest possible form of love'.

Torah calls the practice "an abomination, and forbids Jews the use of the gift of sexual pleasure for any purposes other than the continuity of life, to be practiced in sanctity by a married man and woman.

Homosexual sex can not procreate our species, nor can it express love between a man and a woman.

Just the opposite is true.

Therefore it is an acting out of animal lust.

If an entire society practices it, the society disappears forever.

Those today who make the argument "But it is natural and normal, and observed in almost every species of animal !" are indeed correct in their observations, because homosexual behavior is found throughout much of the animal kingdom.

However, what such 'reasoning' overlooks entirely is that Judaism's purpose is to enable mankind to recognize, elevate, and sanctify his holy and spiritual nature; separate and apart from that which are the basest physical urges we share with other animals

A Jew strives for holiness and to sanctify G-d's creation.

Anger which if acted out would lead to murder, or lustful impulses to engage in sexual activity; we are allowed to recognize the reality of these thoughts which we all have at one time or another, but are not allowed to act on them --

Torah frees mans' intellect to reach for that which is Holy -- never again to be confined within the purely physical and animal "natural world".

It is the Jew with Torah who shows the entire world that G-d is indeed real and exists, and it is the Jew with Torah that alone is able to prove that mankind is different from the rest of the animal kingdom.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
p.s.

Of course, I realize that homosexuality exists.

I personally believe that many human beings are born with the inclination, and I have observed myself how blessed with brilliance and talent are so many of these individuals.

Whether such behavior is innately genetic or learned, Torah gives us the intellect and reasoning to understand that such inclinations are part of the natural world. 

However, we must understand that such urges and thoughts are exactly the same as others in the natural world --

All of us at times feel the urge to murder, steal, or rape, but can and must use our free will and intellects to repress and never act on them.

So too, must we repress and never act out our base sexual impulses, regardless of whether they be heterosexual or homosexual.

Think carefully on this, JTF members, and realize the truth of these words.

You are free to practice the sexual lifestyles of all the pagan and evil nations which have long perished from the Earth if you so choose.

But if so, you must accept that you are no longer to be numbered among the Jewish people.

Also you must accept that Jews exist only because of Torah, and Torah never has and never will accept homosexuality, women priests, feminism, or any other "popular" fad being passed off as "rational, modern, and secular".

In fact, each and every one of these schools of thought are as old as time itself, and were practiced in every society in which ancient Jews lived.

Torah is replete with such lifestyles and even far worse ones being practiced long ago in the ancient world.

Ancient Canaanites practiced group sex and defecation as religious rite! ...

Sodom and Gomorrah is no myth ..

Talmud has a passage in which the ancient Rabbis who actually lived in Babylonian exile agree that it was only when the women of ancient Babylon demanded full equality with men that the great Empire fell.

Question:  Who was it Judah Maccabee was fighting? --

Answer:  The Assyrian Empire, remnant of Alexander the Great's Empire, who like the rest of the Greek world prayed to statues, ate pigs, worshipped the nude human body, spent their quality time being naked with other men "getting ripped" and "working out" in gymnasiums and then having anal intercourse with each other.  They somehow got the idea that conquering Judea by force, putting pigs and statues in the Temple in Jerusalem, building gymnasiums and pools for the Jews, and legally outlawing circumcision and Kosher eating was the hippest and latest thing for the Modern Man of the New Age.

Then, as today, a large percentage of Jews would embrace the secular and pagan world with all its promises of wealth, excitement, pleasure, and sexual freedom.

Then, as today, any that did would be cut off from their people and perish.

Think about it.


 


Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2010, 11:04:28 AM »
Hamantaschen, it is so obvious that you are a "gay rights" activist trolling here to further your agenda.

I just left a post/reply regarding the homosexual life and its ramifications as regards the Torah Jew.

In answer to your "question":

If any six year old comes home and announces that he's "gay" to his family, then he's obviously been brainwashed either at school or by television, because children are not sexual beings.

Male children do not have descended testes, testosterone, pubic hair, or a sex urge.

Female children do not have menstruation, breast development, pubic hair, changes in physical shape, an increase in estrogen levels, or a sex urge.

A sixteen year old might make such a statement to a parent, but not a six year old.

And if my children were to ever make such a statement to me, I would sit them down and explain in depth exactly what I just explained in my recent post dealing with the subject of how Jews should deal with the "gay" or homosexual lifestyle.    :)

And, if for any reason that didn't get through to him or her, I would then tie them up, dress them in all white clothes, take a can of black spray paint, and write N I G R all over their face and clothes, and then drive them over to the worst ghetto neighborhood and push them out of the car.     >:(

If they survived, they would have taken it so many times up the butt   :o   that they would never want gay sex again!      ;D