Trembling Before G-d - a documentary about gay Jews

[JTFenthusiast2]

Massa,

I'm not sure Rock Hudson is a good example because he was married for all of three minutes and he got HIV.  Studies have shown that Gay men that are 'out' are less likely to get HIV than their closeted counterparts because they are more likely to use protection and less likely to have sex under ...clandestine situations.  Also I'm not sure living in a culture where you are the object of snickering without any recourse is good for one's mental health.  I don't really know what the answer is except taking one day at a time, one choice at a time.  I do feel sorry for the people in this video because they very clearly struggle trying to be good Jews and in most cases seem to be except this one.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "self control"

muman613,
Could you possibly expound for us here on the forum on the merits -vs- demerits of a troubled man and woman who choose to live together as friends in a "marriage of convenience" in order to not upset society, even though it is an obvious deceit, as opposed to the same merits/demerits to be had in an individual of either sex who chooses a profligate lifestyle in their belief that "honesty is the best policy"?
Thanks!

[muman613]

Re:  "self control"

muman613,
Could you possibly expound for us here on the forum on the merits -vs- demerits of a troubled man and woman who choose to live together as friends in a "marriage of convenience" in order to not upset society, even though it is an obvious deceit, as opposed to the same merits/demerits to be had in an individual of either sex who chooses a profligate lifestyle in their belief that "honesty is the best policy"?
Thanks!

I will have to look into this question after Shabbat... I am busy at work now, and wont really be able to deal with looking at this until Motzei Shabbat...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane was right.

I dont know why you are confused about why "you" are bing brought into this, when "you" attacked me and several other posters on this board in your initial comments

Attacked you?  In what way?

When I objected to you bringing "me" into it, I did not refer to you responding to my comment.   I encourage response to my comments.   What I object to is your ascribing particular views to me that I never expressed! 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Kahane was right.

I dont know why you are confused about why "you" are bing brought into this, when "you" attacked me and several other posters on this board in your initial comments

Attacked you?  In what way?

When I objected to you bringing "me" into it, I did not refer to you responding to my comment.   I encourage response to my comments.   What I object to is your ascribing particular views to me that I never expressed! 

Look at what the trolls have accomplished--good JTF members are fighting with each other.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane was right.

I dont know why you are confused about why "you" are bing brought into this, when "you" attacked me and several other posters on this board in your initial comments

Attacked you?  In what way?   

When I objected to you bringing "me" into it, I did not refer to you responding to my comment.   I encourage response to my comments.   What I object to is your ascribing particular views to me that I never expressed! 

Look at what the trolls have accomplished--good JTF members are fighting with each other.

I don't believe I'm in a fight, at least I hope not.

It appears a discussion of this nature between me and JTFen would have come about in any case.   I'm still trying to figure out what he's saying though.


I think we need to clarify on this forum that objecting to a person's view or rejecting their logic/assumption(s) or calling their view baseless in light of known facts or evident truths is not a personal attack.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I'm sure that this person (or people) are laughing their tuchis off as we speak. The poster deliberately posted an extremely controversial video whose sole purpose is to attack the Bible when it comes to homosexuality. Other provocative posters then threw in their two cents--one of whom actually had the gall to defend Greco-Roman faggot civilization.

[Zelhar]

I come to think there are various types of gayness- Gary Cooper may be one type- I still don't believe he was one. But there are some people like Robert said before that are "perez hilton × 10", they can never be closeted. Take for example Liberace, who tried to stay in the closet back in the 1950s and 60s, and he even successfully sued someone for slander, for calling him what he was. Nevertheless he was way too gay to hide it.

In some cases this is really a mental/physical syndrome, not only affecting the sexual preference, but encompassing the demeanor, thought patterns, the speech.

[Ben m]

I'm sure that this person (or people) are laughing their tuchis off as we speak. The poster deliberately posted an extremely controversial video whose sole purpose is to attack the Bible when it comes to homosexuality. Other provocative posters then threw in their two cents--one of whom actually had the gall to defend Greco-Roman faggot civilization.

do you realy beleive in this little conspiracy theory of yours? and besides i can defend every culture i want innocently and the last think i need is you and your porn and profanity accuse me on every problem in the world.

[Hamantashen]

I am saddened that an intelligent discussion of the dilemmas of gay "Orthodox" Jews which I understand to be an anathema to Torah Judaism has degenerated into a discussion of Greek pederasty.  Regardless of its content, I thought the film was a sensitive attempt to show several sides of the problem that Jews and Jewish families encounter when this sad state of affairs afflicts them.  Do you think it couldn't happen to yours?  Not one of you has outlined what he thinks he will do when his 16 year old son or daughter comes home and says, most emphatically, "Daddy/Mommy, I am gay.  I have tried to change and I can't.  It is not a phase.  Are you going to throw me out of the house?  I have nowhere to go."