Poll

What is your opinion on evolution?

It's true on how you defined it
8 (57.1%)
I disagree a little this is how I think it was done
3 (21.4%)
I disagree completely, Gd raised His magic wand and poof all of today's species came to be
2 (14.3%)
Humans came from apes directly
1 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 0

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Offline cjd

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2010, 10:42:04 PM »
OK, Rubystars!

If the scientists have the answers, then tell me where schwartzes came from!

Colin Powell has it right, when he said "Whites in America have a real dilemma -- they believe that "all men are created equal", and at the same time are convinced that Blacks are an inferior race!".

How is it that a schwartze after 6000 years of evolution is today less intelligent than a monkey, deranged, and more violent than any other beast?

How do scientists "account" for the fact that the schwartze has no class, no breeding, no mating, no child rearing, and loves watermelon and KFC?

How does that fit into the "Great Scheme of Evolution?"

They're a less evolved form, without the evolutionary stresses of Europe they stayed static, unchanged for 200,000 years.
It's even simpler then that... They are the missing link.
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Offline muman613

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2010, 10:44:05 PM »
Maybe your ancestors were monkeys, but I am not descended from monkeys. I am a human who ultimately descended from Adam.

But you can postulate all you like about missing links, it will keep you busy.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline cjd

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2010, 10:49:51 PM »
Maybe your ancestors were monkeys, but I am not descended from monkeys. I am a human who ultimately descended from Adam.

But you can postulate all you like about missing links, it will keep you busy.


Well you have always said muman... more then human so you have made you position clear already  :::D..... Here in New York we have fine museums filled with all sort of fossils that really make a good case for evolution... Whatever the case I am sure it is all G-ds work.
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Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2010, 10:57:00 PM »
I disagree!

I think that space aliens dumped them off here to get rid of the garbage!

Their entire front temporal lobe is missing!

It's proven that when undergoing brain surgery, the doctors lift off a shvoog's skull to reveal a "blue gums" looking squirrel size brain without any convolutions on it!

It's full of purple and black pigment running all through it like discarded grape chewing gum.

Not only that!

Neuroscience reveals that unlike normal humans' brains which have a brain stem and spinal cord, the schwartze's chipmunk brain instead has a "hambone nerve" running down the back of his neck and directly connected to his penis for aiding in raping white women.

They also have this extra bone called "The Monkey's Paw of Lord Harambee" that they use to rip open Kool Cigarrette Packs from the bottom side, using their pinky fingernail, which is held erect and rigid by the Monkey's Paw Bone!


Offline syyuge

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2010, 10:58:24 PM »
Science, evolutions and scientific evolutions all were kindly and duly permitted by the G_d as a part and process of his grand design. So that they also should be scientifically studied, understood and appreciated by the mankind. The days of G_d are eons of mankind.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline cjd

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2010, 11:04:05 PM »
I disagree!

I think that space aliens dumped them off here to get rid of the garbage!

Their entire front temporal lobe is missing!

It's proven that when undergoing brain surgery, the doctors lift off a shvoog's skull to reveal a "blue gums" looking squirrel size brain without any convolutions on it!

It's full of purple and black pigment running all through it like discarded grape chewing gum.

Not only that!

Neuroscience reveals that unlike normal humans' brains which have a brain stem and spinal cord, the schwartze's chipmunk brain instead has a "hambone nerve" running down the back of his neck and directly connected to his penis for aiding in raping white women.

They also have this extra bone called "The Monkey's Paw of Lord Harambee" that they use to rip open Kool Cigarrette Packs from the bottom side, using their pinky fingernail, which is held erect and rigid by the Monkey's Paw Bone!


I think you might be on to something here... :o

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Offline Rubystars

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2010, 11:09:36 PM »
OK, Rubystars!

If the scientists have the answers, then tell me where schwartzes came from!


They emerged from the first toilet bowl, after squirming their way through the primordial poop. Their very next evolutionary step was to develop hands, so they could stick them out, palm up, and say "Gib me dat".

In all seriousness though, evolution is not a ladder, it is not trying to "improve" anything. God can guide evolution in one direction or another, but as a natural process, it just reacts to whatever the conditions are, blindly.

Brains are expensive, they require a lot of oxygen and nutrients, so the smaller brain someone has, the less expensive it is and the less resources they need. There are always trade-offs.

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2010, 11:10:13 PM »
To beat the West to be the one..

Offline muman613

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2010, 11:17:39 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2010, 11:20:50 PM »
Terror, terror, that's my strategy
terror, terror gains us respect and sympathy
To beat Islam to be the one
From the Euphrates to the Nyle
Yalla, yalla, ya - I use the Uzi and you are gone

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2010, 11:31:53 PM »
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

"When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.” - Maimonides

 “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” -Psalms 120:7

"The difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner."" - Philip Klein

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2010, 11:44:04 PM »
Re:  "Their very next evolutionary step was to develop hands, so they could stick them out, palm up, and say "Gib me dat". "

 :::D    :::D    :::D    :::D



                    8)

Offline briann

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2010, 12:41:09 AM »
Boy Dr. Dan, you need to work on making your options a little less biased; especially the magic wand comment; that might come across as a bit offensive to some here.

I don't see why Evolution can't be compatible with creationism.  I don't agree with those who say its either one or the other, and thats that.

This can expand to so many other things in life.  most of what happens in history follows the laws of nature, physics, genetics, etc, but that does mean that there can't be divine intervention as well.

Offline IsraelForever

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2010, 12:55:05 AM »
And over time, fish came out of the ocean and their fins became arms and hands and over more time they learned to play the piano like Horowitz.

PUH-LEEESE!


Offline Ben m

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2010, 02:23:28 AM »
I don't understand some of your answer choices.

"I disagree completely, Humans came from apes"

Wouldn't humans coming from apes be agreeing with evolution?
no,human and apes share the smae ancestors.but this ancestors weren't apes.
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline Ben m

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2010, 02:26:01 AM »
Massuh, I agree that not all races are equal in ability, but I don't think that's a claim of evolution but more a claim of cultural anthropologists who follow the Boas school of thought. Also how exactly does the platypus go against evolution? It's sort of a living fossil really, monotremes are a very old form of mammal, and still retain some reptilian characteristics such as a single cloaca and the ability to lay eggs.
evolution palyed a major part in theevolution of the races.blacks for example are still adapt for a life in the jungles or in the savvanas.that explains thei impusivness,agrresivness,and their supremacy in running and swimming.
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2010, 03:34:58 AM »
supremacy in running and swimming.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24411271/

You might want to rethink your stance.
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

"When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.” - Maimonides

 “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” -Psalms 120:7

"The difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner."" - Philip Klein

Offline Ben m

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2010, 03:38:15 AM »
supremacy in running and swimming.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24411271/

You might want to rethink your stance.
sorry oyou right.most of the negroe ''culture'' developed inland so evolution didn't gave them swimming supremacy.
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2010, 05:01:50 AM »
Guys guys you have ALL wrong!!!!

Humans are a result of a squirrel-monkey thing having butt sex with a fish-frog.

Oh wait, that's Obama. Kind of resembles a fish-frog-squirrel-monkey.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2010, 06:34:09 AM »
Don't read about monotremes -- read about the platypus.

I don't believe that monotremes is any other than a newly devised "classification" --  a weak attempt by Darwinists to force fit species which won't "fit the rule" into some niche which previously never existed because of the fact that these creatures simply defy classification according to the Laws of Evolution. 

What are you talking about?   Why is classification system without monotremes a gospel, but with it you have a problem?   The classification schema is simply a way to categorize the species that have been found.  Why can't there be an exceptional category with unique characteristics.  This does Not disprove the massive amounts of evidence supporting evolution.

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The platypus has a duck's bill, webbed feet, a tail like a beaver, has legs attached to the sides of its body like a reptile.  It lays eggs, but feeds its young with milk like a mammal, has receptors on its head which can detect electromagnetic bio-waves released by other animals, and has venomous spines on its rear feet for stinging prey and predators.  It has no teeth, but grinds its food using rocks it picks up from the bottoms of streams.

  So what.

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In other words, it appears to be totally unique, and evolved from no other species into its present form.

This is your own interpretation, but this is not correct nor do I have any reason to believe you've made the correct interpretation of this data.  Why did they not evolve from any other species?  Even with many current species that fit into the basic classifications ie mammals etc they have not catalogued every single developmental ancestor.  When species die out, you are not necessarily going to find their remnants unless you dig up every inch of the earth, but then where will we all live?   

Some species come and go, develop and die out, and we never hear from them again, and many of them we don't even have fossils or haven't yet uncovered them in the ground.   That takes nothing away from the concept of evolution.

But your premise doesn't make sense.   There is such a concept, even within the basic classification system, of convergent evolution, vestigial organs, divergent evolution, homologous structures etc.   I fail to see how you raise a challenge to the concept of evolution by saying an organism is unique.   In truth, they are all unique.   Thus they are classified into separate species.

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The actual existence of a scientific classification called "monotremes" is a mere hypothetical construct -- unproven, and without any known links which could place the platypus and anteater in the Theory of Evolution. 

We have to know every single linkage and every single event that took place in order to know that evolution occurred?  That's ridiculous.  Why use the platypus?  Simply cite that they haven't found EXACT transitional species for every single evolutionary development, or say that they found some but there are others they didn't find, and you're making the same (very weak) point.    But this point is not a shock to scientists who already have abandoned the model of "Darwinian Evolution" for "Punctuated Equilibrium" which upon digging up many findings and much data to compare with Darwin's theories and speculations, have found to fit better with a concept of Punctuated Equilibrium than with "Darwinian" format.   Nobody ever made Darwin into a "God" of science because he postulated something.   His hypotheses were weighed against the facts uncovered by people doing the digging with the developed technology necessary for the work, and they determined that what would be an accepted hypothesis had to be altered in order to make more sense in light of what was actually found.   That is the process of science.  Nobody has to accept something as dogma without proof behind it.   If there is a better theory and more plausible way of explanation, the scientists adopt that.   That is the reason Punctuated Equilibrium was adopted.   In my opinion this makes even more reason to believe that God is ultimately behind the process of evolution.   The Darwinian model is more like an "Oven-timer" format whereby you "set it and forget it" and things gradually progress naturally to a given conclusion based on environment.   Punctuated equilibrium requires massive upheavels and dynamic catastrophic events which catapult the process between various stages of basic "plateau."  I can't force someone to see God's hand in that, but I don't see why it can't be accepted by someone who does believe in God.

1
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In addition, rarely a week goes by without scientists announcing the "discovery' of entirely new species of animals in Borneo, South American rainforests, etc...

2
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If this be the case, then their standardized progression of the origin of species is totally without merit, because none of these new species can be accounted for in terms of from which other animals they did evolve.   

I don't see how you concluded 2 from 1.  What do you mean they 'can't be accounted for?'

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What these "scientists" are in fact doing is first declaring their unchallengeable Theory of Evolution, refusing to allow anyone to question it or challenge it.

Actually one can challenge it based on scientific evidence and solid empirical data.   What they don't allow, just like all scientific fields, is for one to challenge a theory based on belief, conjecture, unfounded hypotheses, concocted "svarot" (meaning logical conjecture) etc.   Data is what caused the Darwinian model to be rejected for something more accurate.   Data is what determines whether something is a real challenge or simply someone whistling into the wind.

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And then, as the actual facts present themselves which can not be "fit" into the puzzle, they simply "change the rules" and invent new hitherto unknown classifications in order to make everything "fit" their protocol. 

Their "protocol" never said classification was limited only to what we "currently know" or "have currently found."  New pieces of information add detail and depth to the classification sytem and more knowledge about historical change.  New information does not undermine anything because the system itself was never built on the premise that there can be no outside information or no data that we have not yet determined or arrived at.


Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2010, 06:35:38 AM »
Quote from: MassuhDGoodName
Bear in mind -- these are the same "Scientists" who proclaim loudly that "THERE WAS NO EXODUS!", -- "NO PROOF" OF ANY KIND THAT HEBREWS WERE SLAVES IN EGYPT --

Now you're conflating issues.  They're not the "same scientists."  It's not even the same discipline.   Archaeologists say what they say based on the data and interpretations within their own discipline.  Biologists, Chemists, Biochemists, etc etc say what they say based on data derived from experiments of demonstrably provable hypotheses in their own field.   With Archeaology as a discipline there is absolutely no comparison to the level of objectivity built into a discipline such as biology which operates on the scientific method.  Archaeology is highly subjective and requires far more "interpretation" of individual findings than anything in biology even remotely does.   Even the dating system of Archaeology in terms of ancient history is very speculative and even disputed.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2010, 06:42:48 AM »

Actually I think that evolutionary biology is a separate discipline from Egyptology/Archaeology. However I think that there is a lot more room for us to debate the archaeologists because they don't really have the evidence to disprove the Biblical stories.


Exactly.  Very good point, Rubystars.  I agree very strongly, and this is an important distinction people need to realize.


Offline White Israelite

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2010, 06:47:22 AM »
pretty much agree with how you defined in Dan.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2010, 06:48:27 AM »

My problem with evolutionary theory lies in that theoretical science is entertaining, while observational science is more important although perhaps less satisfying because observations often raise questions which do not have answers

I don't understand the distinction you are making.  Evolutionary theory is grounded in observations and data.  "observational science" is the only way evidence for evolution has been amassed that takes it out of the realm of conjecture or science fiction "idea" into the realm of a workable, plausible Theory that makes sense of known facts.

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From speaking with a friend of mine I shall quote him.  [He mentions, "Lucy", and "Ardi", and I am suspicious of these specific "finds"]  Some of what is here is interesting to me, but not enough to make me a believer one way or another.

What is "suspicious" about Lucy?  This is a well-publicized finding that developed into major disputes within archaeology and ancient history.

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The Lenski LTEE E. coli experiment showed that natural selecting acting on random mutation produces new information and novel function. Here is the original paper:
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/23/7899  

There are countless biological studies which operate on the same premise and demonstrate it to be true.



Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What is your opinion on evolution?
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2010, 07:12:48 AM »
Quote from: Ariel Shayn

Something that jumps out at me, from Torah, G-d created man on both the 6th and 7th day.  I have heard some explanations which make sense, but G-d creating a man before Adam of a lower stature, such as Cromagnon or Neanderthal man, who is not a "real" man is an entertaining idea to explain this.  I know there are some pre-Adamite theories which go off of this 6th day/7th day creation, some of them are entertaining, others less logical.

One of the Rabbis I speak says this, "If there seems to be a conflict between Torah, and science, the issue is with our limited finite human understanding".

Now we're talking.   Firstly, I'm not sure what you mean about 6th and 7th day, by all accounts on the 7th day G-d "rested" from creating, and so man was created on the 6th day.  G-d did not create anything on the 7th day and that is why we celebrate the Shabbath, and we see G-d as not only being "the Creator" but also existing as separate from the act of creation.  You might refer to two accounts of creation, chapter 1 and chapter 2, but man is created the 6th day in both.   But as Rav Soloveitchik explains, the 2 accounts describe different metaphysical aspects of man and the dichotomy of man's role in the world.  In one sense man is the centerpiece of creation, and the creation of man is the ultimate purpose of everything else, to serve and be subjugated by man who is bequeathed dominion over the world by G-d.  But on the other hand man is still subservient to G-d and merely one aspect of a variegated creation in which man has much in common with the disparate elements (including common origin - man "built from the dust of the earth" etc) such as the inorganic elements, the plant life, the animal life etc.  And so man's role is also defined by his cooperation/participation in the preservation of the whole as one mere part in the symphony of creation that is truly owned by God.    These two roles of man are described as a dichotomy in the respective chapters 1 and 2 and form man's challenge to integrate and balance, and in Rav Soloveitchik's works, constitute the existential struggle of man in the world.   We can elaborate on this more as I had a series of shiurim on this subject from my rabbi in yeshiva.  There are a lot of examples and proofs within the text behind this basic idea.  Actually I don't know if I can commit the time to do it, but I think it may be a good idea for me to put up a series of summaries in the Torah section from my notes on this class that may be of interest to the members here.

One clear notion we must accept which has a strong basis throughout the sources to the point of being plainly self-evident is that the "6 days of creation" are not literal and do not come to explain the scientific process of G-d's creation.   On the contrary, Chazal, the sages of blessed memory, are quite non-literal in their explanations and leave much room for allegorical interpretation of the "Maaseh Bereshith" the acts of creation section of the Torah since the acts of creation are beyond man's comprehension.   On this topic in particular there is much more room for interpretation, and we see in the rishonim, the early medieval commentators, that in fact they took much liberty in their explanations of the metaphysical and ethical conceptions contained in these chapters, to explain very deep concepts about G-d's creation, while notably not adopting a "literalist" approach, which may have become popularized much later not only due to the influence of the notions of other religions, but as reactionary response to the very superficial notion of conflict between "science and religion" in modern times as seen or assumed by most people.   Even if a reactionary formulation without much backing in the sources gains primacy and popularity due to circumstances of the day, that does not make it a true formulation.   

There is absolutely NO support within the Jewish sources for the idea that the world was created 6000 (ie 5770) years ago.  None.  The dating of 5770 years refers to the creation of man, NOT the universe, and the Torah's definition of man is not a scientific genetic classification or limited to a physical phenotype.  There certainly could have been creatures that resembled what is today known as "human" roaming around before the inbuing of Tzelem Elokim (The image of G-d) into the framework of man-like-animal ... this act constituting the creation of man.

There is much more to talk about here, and G-d willing we will discuss more.