The Torah Allows Gentiles to Offer Particular Animal Sacrifices, Even Today

[edu]

Chafetz Chaim is the nickname given to one of the great rabbis of the later generations, who wrote a book against slander and gossip, entitled Chafetz Chaim. He usually has the last word on issues of Halacha (Torah law).
Chafetz Chaim, (also known by the name, Rabbi Yisrael Meir Kagan) wrote in Likutei Halachot on Zevachim in the last few laws of the tractate that he summarizes in Torat Hakodshim:

Gentiles, in this time are permitted to offer sacrifices on a Bamah (that is to say, an altar that follows the rules of a Bamah). Chafetz Chaim adds that specifically a Bamah must be built and the sacrifice should not be made on the ground.
They are permitted to sacrifice there, domestic and wild animals, and birds, both male and female, either with blemishes or without blemishes on the provision that they are not lacking a limb. And they must be from pure {kosher} species and not from the impure.
Gentiles are only allowed to offer Whole Burnt offerings (the Hebrew term is Olot) and not peace offerings (offerings where part of the sacrifice is not burnt, but rather eaten).
It is forbidden to assist them or to be their emissary for this, for behold, we (Jews) have a prohibition that forbids us to offer sacrifices, outside (of its proper place in the Temple Mount). However, it is permitted for us to instruct them and to teach them how to offer sacrifices to the Almighty, may he be blessed. Now the wood that they need for offering the burnt offering should be from new wood, and so too, the fire, that a man has not previously made use of. This rule comes to exclude the use of broken vessels/tools.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

He usually has the last word on issues of Halacha (Torah law).

That's not necessarily true, but there is no question to his greatness, his genius, and his righteousness, and he is of course a major halachic authority with his decisions due their proper weight.

[edu]

Kahane- was- right
stated

That's not necessarily true, but there is no question to his greatness, his genius, and his righteousness, and he is of course a major halachic authority with his decisions due their proper weight.

I believe most of the ashkenazic world does follow more or less the Mishna Brura which Chafetz Chaim  authored and almost everyone uses his rulings on hilchot lashon hara.

In any case, are you aware of some great rabbinic scholar who does not agree on the issue I brought up about animal sacrifices?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane- was- right
stated

That's not necessarily true, but there is no question to his greatness, his genius, and his righteousness, and he is of course a major halachic authority with his decisions due their proper weight.

I believe most of the ashkenazic world does follow more or less the Mishna Brura which Chafetz Chaim  authored and almost everyone uses his rulings on hilchot lashon hara.

An average Jew might or a posek who's not worth his salt, but a real posek really does not "follow" the Mishna Brura.   It just so happens that in the post-war period, the Aguda printed thousands and thousands of copies of Mishna Brura so that it became a widespread text, and people who don't really know how to pasken use it as a guideline for what to do.  And not that there's anything wrong with that.  It's just not how poskim are supposed to decide Jewish law and not how the great ones do.  The Chazon Ish gave consideration to Mishna Brura like any other aharonic halachic source in his decisions.

Even with all of that, there are many things people commonly do today that are in line with other halachic texts and NOT the mishna Brura.  So when people claim that "all Ashkenazim follow the mishna brura" or that "all have to follow it" - it's not really true.

In any case, are you aware of some great rabbinic scholar who does not agree on the issue I brought up about animal sacrifices?

I never disputed this particular case you bring up, I only wanted to modify the preceding statement on how the halacha works.  It could very well be this is halacha lemaaseh and maybe there's no dispute - I have no idea.

[edu]

To Kahane-Was-Right BT
From the name you chose it is obvious that you are a Rabbi Kahane supporter.
Although, I can't testify what was going on in the entire period since Rabbi Kahane's Yeshiva in Jerusalem was established but I know as an absolute fact, that at least for a period of 2 years that I was close to the Yeshiva, when the head of the Yeshiva, Rabbi Yehuda Kroyser, taught these sections of the Talmud relating to Animal sacrifices, he would end off teaching from Chafetz Chaim's Likutei Halachot, to come away with a halachic conclusion and summary of the subjects touched upon in the Talmud.

[Ulli]

Has any gentile done a whole burned sacrifice according to the laws, the Chafetz Chaim explained, in recent times?

[edu]

Ulli asks
Has any gentile done a whole burned sacrifice according to the laws, the Chafetz Chaim explained, in recent times?
I don't know. But in general, there is a much greater interest by gentiles in the 7 laws of Noach, then in the past, because various events have weakened the power/influence of other religious ideologies and because modern history seems to be developing along a path that indicates to the Gentiles that the Jews were right  all along about the Tanach. Also certain Jews, feel more secure in doing outreach to the Gentiles than in the past.
I'm sure someone could also add other good reasons.
Do I think that Gentiles offering sacrifices is good for them? Seemingly, yes. Noach{Noah} was praised for the sacrifices he brought and gained a greater closeness to G-d.
Furthermore, if the Jews see Gentiles offering sacrifices to G-d it will encourage the Jews to want the Temple rebuilt by practical, realistic methods.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

To Kahane-Was-Right BT
From the name you chose it is obvious that you are a Rabbi Kahane supporter.
Although, I can't testify what was going on in the entire period since Rabbi Kahane's Yeshiva in Jerusalem was established but I know as an absolute fact, that at least for a period of 2 years that I was close to the Yeshiva, when the head of the Yeshiva, Rabbi Yehuda Kroyser, taught these sections of the Talmud relating to Animal sacrifices, he would end off teaching from Chafetz Chaim's Likutei Halachot, to come away with a halachic conclusion and summary of the subjects touched upon in the Talmud.

That's fine and dandy, but the fact of what I said remains.    I'm not saying the halacha is not like what you wrote.   I was only disputing a claim you made about the Chofetz Chaim (and Mishna Brura, particularly) in general.   And maybe what you said regarding Chafetz Haim it's true about animal sacrifices but not in other areas of halacha.   You implied that this was the case in all areas of halacha and that is what I disputed.

[edu]

After Noach{Noah} was saved from the flood, he deduced that the reason that G-d wanted him to take 7,7 of the pure/tahor animals while of the impure it was enough to have a male and female, because he was hinting to Noach, to bring sacrifices after his rescue.
Noach the righteous man, understood G-d's will and so:
Bereishit/Genesis 8:20 "And Noach built an altar to G-d, and took of every pure/tahor beast and every pure/tahor bird and offered wholly burnt offerings (olot) on the altar".
G-d viewed Noach's sacrifice very favorably and gave him and his offspring a blessing. See Bereishit/Genesis for details.
From here, a good Gentile, should learn that although G-d doesn't obligate him to bring sacrifices, it is a good thing to do. And especially if a Gentile is blessed with great wealth, he should ask himself, for what purpose did G-d give me this. Perhaps in order to serve G-d in a great way and to bring great blessing to the world.

[edu]

Let's say there are righteous Gentiles out there who are convinced and want to go to the next step of getting practical advice from Rabbis how to build an altar an how to do the sacrifice; who to contact?
One organization I can think of right away is the Temple Institute also called Machon Hamikdash who are involved with building the vessels of the Temple.
Here is a link http://www.templeinstitute.org/contact.htm
I have other alternatives which I might present later.

[edu]

Here's another reason why a righteous gentile might want to bring sacrifices.
Namely, to hurt the cause of idol worship in the world.
How?
I won't "pull my punches", regular Christianity that believes in a Trinity is a form of idol worship.

By offering sacrifices you weaken the claims of Christianity.
Why?
Because some of them make the lying claim, that without the blood of sacrifices and without the blood of their founder J.C. you have nothing to atone for your sins.
When Gentiles offer the blood of sacrifices, they are weakening one of the propaganda arguments of certain forms of Christianity.

Note: Originally I posted the following:

If you want a scholarly explanation, why deification of any human being is idol worship among the many articles that are out there I recommend
Monotheism Vs. The Outlook That Everything is G-d which although dealing with another issue also deals with the pagan status of standard Christianity.
 http://www.vilnagaon.org/monotheism.htm

But then I thought it was first more appropriate to read direct and more simpler proofs against Christianity instead of jumping straight ahead to the more complicated and indirect article that I proposed.
Therefore the average guy should first probably go to Rabbi Tovia Singer's site at http://www.outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html#

[edu]

Another good starting point for the Gentile who is looking for proof against Christianity is at
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
The article points out the pagan origins of X-mas [the Christian Holiday of Dec. 25th]

[edu]

It says in Zechariah chapter 2

Then I lifted up my eyes, and saw, and behold four horns. And I said to the angel that talked with me, What are these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Yehuda {Judea},Yisrael {Israel} and Yerushalayim{Jerusalem}.
  And Hashem{G-d} showed me four craftsmen. Then said I, What are they coming to do? And he spoke, saying , Those, were the horns which scattered Yehuda, so that no man could lift up his head: but these are come to terrify them, to cast out the horns of the nations, which lift up their horn towards the land of Yehuda to scatter it.

According to many commentaries on the Talmud tractate Succah 52b, one of these 4 craftsmen is a righteous Gentile who built an altar to G-d.
More on this, G-d willing, at another time.

[edu]

Who are the 4 craftsmen in the prophecy of Zechariah chapter 2.
The Talmud in tractate Succah 52b identifies them with 4 individuals who have some connection to either building the Temple or building an altar.
Namely, they are Messiah son of Yoseph{Joseph} Messiah son of Dovid{David},Eliyahu{Elijah} and Cohain Tzedek.
Who is Cohain Tzedek? This is Malkitzedek the righteous gentile of Breishit{Genesis} chapter 14 who is described as a Cohain to the Almighty who is most high and who aids and praises Avraham{Abraham} and similarly in Tehillim{Psalms 110:4} Malkitzedek earns high praise.
In Shir Hashirim Rabba,Pesikta Drav Kahana,Pesikta Rabati, and Yalkut Shimoni, Malkitzedek is explicitly substituted for the 4th craftsman which the Talmud labels as Cohain Tzedek.
If we indeed agree that the 4th craftsman is Malkitzedek, one can rightfully raise the question, how can the actions of a man that died thousands of years ago, somehow save the Jewish people from the horns that come to scatter Jews from the land of Yehuda{Judea}.
I will try to answer this question on a later date, G-d willing and without making a vow; if no one else has already answered the question.

[Raulmarrio2000]

I believe the Hallacha is that Gentiles CAN offer sacrifices today in the way Chafetz Chaim says. But it's not recommended for several reasons. A Gentile must be extremely careful to do it properly and, since it's not an obligation for him, it's not worth taking the risk of making a mistake. There is also a danger that the Gentile, even the most pious of us, could focus his attention on enjoying re-living an ancient practice rather than prasing H". That would probably invalidate his sacrifice and even turn it into a sin.

[edu]

Thank you Raulmarrio2000 for your important comments.
First of all, I agree with you that it is not an obligation for gentiles to offer sacrifices, however, if they do offer them correctly, they are doing good for themselves and good for the world.
If the Gentile is offering a sacrifice to G-d {as defined by the Torah}, I don't believe also enjoying re-living an ancient practice ruins the sacrifice. Of course, this like any other question, related on how to offer the sacrifice, one can  and should ask the experts, such as the Temple Institute.
Here is a link http://www.templeinstitute.org/contact.htm
The attitude you mentioned Raulmarrio2000

since it's not an obligation for him, it's not worth taking the risk of making a mistake.

is also a viewpoint of some religious Jews.
However, another viewpoint found in the religious world, is that it's true, some actions are a little bit risky. But if it will help G-d to be recognized as king of all mankind and bring rectification to the world, "I'll take a reasonable amount of risk, because I love G-d and want to serve him in the best way".
These two viewpoints/attitudes are also found in the biblical book of Ruth. In chapter 4, a certain unidentified man is asked to redeem the parcel of land belonging to Elimelech. And because it is a good deed he initially agrees. But then when he finds out that in order to redeem the land he will also have to marry Ruth the Moabite convert, the unidentified man backs out, saying in verse 6: "I can not redeem it for myself, lest I harm my own inheritance".
Boaz on the other hand, studied the law well and he knew that it was permitted to marry Ruth the Moabite convert and he knew that it would help the kingdom of G-d and would help rectify the world if he married her.
Now how does the book of Ruth end. "and Boaz begot Oved and Oved begot Yishai and Yishai begot Dovid{David}." That is to say the king of Israel.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If the Gentile is offering a sacrifice to G-d {as defined by the Torah}, I don't believe also enjoying re-living an ancient practice ruins the sacrifice. Of course, this like any other question, related on how to offer the sacrifice, one can  and should ask the experts, such as the Temple Institute.
Here is a link http://www.templeinstitute.org/contact.htm 

I agree with what you say here.  Every time a Jew does a mitzvah he is reliving an ancient practice, and getting excited over that surely doesn't take away from the mitzvah itself.  Would that all Jews were excited to perform their ancient practices.

The attitude you mentioned Raulmarrio2000

since it's not an obligation for him, it's not worth taking the risk of making a mistake.

is also a viewpoint of some religious Jews.
However, another viewpoint found in the religious world, is that it's true, some actions are a little bit risky. But if it will help G-d to be recognized as king of all mankind and bring rectification to the world, "I'll take a reasonable amount of risk, because I love G-d and want to serve him in the best way".
These two viewpoints/attitudes are also found in the biblical book of Ruth. In chapter 4, a certain unidentified man is asked to redeem the parcel of land belonging to Elimelech. And because it is a good deed he initially agrees. But then when he finds out that in order to redeem the land he will also have to marry Ruth the Moabite convert, the unidentified man backs out, saying in verse 6: "I can not redeem it for myself, lest I harm my own inheritance".
Boaz on the other hand, studied the law well and he knew that it was permitted to marry Ruth the Moabite convert and he knew that it would help the kingdom of G-d and would help rectify the world if he married her.
Now how does the book of Ruth end. "and Boaz begot Oved and Oved begot Yishai and Yishai begot Dovid{David}." That is to say the king of Israel.

Very sensible, and I agree with this too.   The inherent "risk" in an action will deter some people, to be sure, but there is no reason to believe that every individual MUST be deterred by risk - there are those who will not be compelled to refrain thus.   Such people (those who are not deterred) will be those who merit to rebuild the Temple.

[edu]

I mentioned earlier on the question how could Malikizedek be one of the 4 craftsmen of the book of Zecharia chapter 2 verse 3, if he has already died.
There's several answers that one can give.
I will offer the 2 I like best.
1] The precedent of Malkitzedek will inspire Gentiles in the future to offer sacrifices that will advance the redemption process.
2] We find in Yechezkel/Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24 and 25 that Dovid/David in the future will have rulership in Israel.
You could ask the same question there too. How can he rule, he's already dead?
The simplest level is that the meaning is to someone else who has the same status and spiritual level as the original King Dovid/David.

[muman613]

It is interesting that my contribution to this thread is in support of the idea that gentiles can bring sacrifices to Hashem...

During the Rosh Hashana service on Friday I was reading one of the piyyutim in the Machzor and it struck me that it was talking about this topic. I memorized the page # because I have a copy of the Artscroll Rosh Hashana Machzor on my library shelf here at home.

http://www.artscroll.com/Books/marl-a.html

On page 551 it reads:

Then all shall come to serve you
they shall bless Your glorious Name
and declare Your righteousness in far-flung lands
Peoples that knew You not will seek You out;
all ends of the earth will laud You
and always say, 'May Hashem be exalted'
(some add: To You they will slaughter their offerings.)
They will reject their idols,
be mortified with their statues,
and turn unanimously to You
Those who seek Your presence
will revere You as long as the sun exists;
they will recognize the power of Your sovereignty,
and teach understanding to those gone astray
...
..

[cjd]

Proselytizing is proselytizing subtle or otherwise...edu most Gentiles are not going to offer animal sacrifices now or in any time to come....Its great that your here discussing Torah issues and posting some interesting links like the one for the temple institute ( a organization I happen to like) but some of the links are really questionable... Somehow or another I have not paid attention to the two threads you like to post in lets just say you have my interest now....I see I have a lot of reading to do this morning... To be continued...

[cjd]

Looks like this agrees with what Rambam says in the Mishneh Torah:

Gentiles are permitted to offer burnt offerings to G-d in all places, provided they sacrifice them on a raised structure that they build. It is forbidden to help them [offer these sacrifices] or act as agents for them, for we are forbidden to sacrifice outside [the Temple Courtyard]. It is permitted to instruct them and teach them how to sacrifice to the Almighty, blessed be He.

I am sure it agrees with the Rambam and Mishneh Torah 100%... The question that came to my mind this morning was what would be the point of mainly a Christian Gentile making such a burnt offering... According to edu Gentiles who believe in the Trinity are nothing but idol worshipers  so exactly who would they be making this burnt offering to and what value would any of this have in the larger picture... All this is only good if the Gentile is on the way to renouncing his beliefs and chooses to become a Noahhide or Jew... Nothing wrong with that however I just found most of edu's post have a proselytizing slant. Since its often said that Jews don't proselytize and our forum does not allow it what is the point of presenting something like this... My objection here is only one of being consistent with the application of the rules of the forum... In my opinion people should believe what they want... It makes little difference to me in general who converts to what... Please  feel free to correct me if I am looking at this the wrong way.

[Chai]

Gentile is a very broad term t,hey include Messianics Unitarians,  , Noahides and people that believe in the counsel of Nicaeas concept of a trinity  but still hold Jews do not need to accept this and their word is valid.
and therefore want to know about things.


What sucks for me is when I meet someone and they tell me they are Christian I dont know what that means , because again that can include ,
 Messianics Unitarians ,..............Orthodox(Greek, Roman ETC)................Lutheran.....................Methodist.............Baptist............Anabaptist... Amish....Oldtestiment Christian

CDJ I myself am Just learning about all the different denominations and Im surprised to find out some "Christians" have more in common with Jews then Refrom Jews or even conservatives for that matter.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "some "Christians" have more in common with Jews then Refrom Jews or even conservatives for that matter. "

Yes.  And the exact converse is also true.

[AsheDina]

Gentile is a very broad term t,hey include Messianics Unitarians,  , Noahides and people that believe in the counsel of Nicaeas concept of a trinity  but still hold Jews do not need to accept this and their word is valid.
and therefore want to know about things.


What sucks for me is when I meet someone and they tell me they are Christian I dont know what that means , because again that can include ,
 Messianics Unitarians ,..............Orthodox(Greek, Roman ETC)................Lutheran.....................Methodist.............Baptist............Anabaptist... Amish....Oldtestiment Christian

CDJ I myself am Just learning about all the different denominations and Im surprised to find out some "Christians" have more in common with Jews then Refrom Jews or even conservatives for that matter.

Of course they do, Christians have zero in common with liberal-Jews.