Piratebay down, police raids across Europe

[Rubystars]

Don't you feel guilt towards your fellow Americans who were oppressed and killed by them?

Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!

As an American I expect you to see the founders of your nations as your fellow Americans and honor them, despising their killers.

- a non-American

[Rubystars]

Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!

As an American I expect you to see the founders of your nations as your fellow Americans and honor them, despising their killers.

- a non-American

Of course I do but what does that have to do with England today?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!

As an American I expect you to see the founders of your nations as your fellow Americans and honor them, despising their killers.

- a non-American

Of course I do but what does that have to do with England today?

The same (lehavdil) the German murderers of yesterday have to do with their German children today.

If I was a Brit I'd laugh.

[Rubystars]

Well WW2 is a lot closer in history to us than the American Revolutionary War, and the effects of it are still felt in the horrors that haunt people in their mind every day who had to go through it, the marks left on people's bodies, etc.

Something like the Holocaust was never part of a legitimate war. This wasn't one army against another. It was a deliberate rounding up of people that Hitler didn't like, to murder them and do horrible experiments on them, work them to death, starve them to death, let disease rage through the camps, shoot them, and murder them in gas chambers and burn the bodies in crematoria. That's not war, that's genocide.

When America wanted to break off and form its own country, that's bound to lead to war, and the people were willing to fight. England found out they couldn't keep up a foreign war so far away and so the Americans ended up winning. Of course there were horrible, bloody casualties, but that was the price the Americans were willing to pay to be independent and rule themselves.  England in the Revolutionary War wasn't setting out to round up millions of people just to murder them in cold blood and/or torture them. The deaths were part of war.


What the Nazis did is just not comparable because it's so much more evil.

[Raulmarrio2000]

I doubt sharing files is Halachically equal to theft, but it's wrong anyway. Besides, it is also forbidden due to Dina Damalchuta Dina (the Law of the Goverment is Law) which orders Jews to obey the Law of the State as far as it does not order to violate the Torah.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Well WW2 is a lot closer in history to us than the American Revolutionary War, and the effects of it are still felt in the horrors that haunt people in their mind every day who had to go through it, the marks left on people's bodies, etc.

Something like the Holocaust was never part of a legitimate war. This wasn't one army against another. It was a deliberate rounding up of people that Hitler didn't like, to murder them and do horrible experiments on them, work them to death, starve them to death, let disease rage through the camps, shoot them, and murder them in gas chambers and burn the bodies in crematoria. That's not war, that's genocide.

When America wanted to break off and form its own country, that's bound to lead to war, and the people were willing to fight. England found out they couldn't keep up a foreign war so far away and so the Americans ended up winning. Of course there were horrible, bloody casualties, but that was the price the Americans were willing to pay to be independent and rule themselves.  England in the Revolutionary War wasn't setting out to round up millions of people just to murder them in cold blood and/or torture them. The deaths were part of war.


What the Nazis did is just not comparable because it's so much more evil.

I predict you didn't understand me. I never compared the Holocaust to the American War of Independence - for the only thing that it can be compared
to it is the Destruction of the Temples, the war with the Amalekites, the Russian, Egyptian, Persian and Islamic exiles, the Crusades, the Soviet
persecution of Judaism and the reigns of the Assyrians and Romans in the Holy Land, etc - but nothing else. That's why I said Lehavdil - which means
"to differentiate", "to distinguish".

as a Jew, I consider every Jew murdered by others, whether in war or in a pogrom, in a personal clash or anything, to be the same. The blood of Anna Frank who was murdered by the German sub-human beasts equals the blood of Avraham "Yair" Stern who was murdered by the British sub-human imperialist thieves. How he was murdered mastters less for me - the fact that he was murdered is what really matters. The murderer, whoever he may be, whether he did that as a nation or as an individual, will be remembered forever, and I will not rest until the Lion will have his revenge.

I thought you feel the same towards Americans as I do for Jews. I guess I was wrong.

[Rubystars]

I feel differently if someone is killed in a war than if someone is hunted down, tortured, and murdered in cold blood. They're both bad, but the latter one is much worse. I do think it's admirable to care for your own people and want to avenge them like you do.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Unknown Soldier:  "The same (lehavdil) the German murderers of yesterday have to do with their German children today.  If I was a Brit I'd laugh.

Invalid comparison.

The British colonists who revolted against Britain were BRITISH SUBJECTS loyal to the Crown.

They had no desire to have to fight a war against their own fellow British brethren, and were part of a broad based mercantile venture established for mutual benefit.

They were not culturally, racially, or religiously different than those against whom they revolted and warred.

In stark contrast, the Germans of Hitler's Reich murdered millions of innocents - fellow citizens within their own country, and innocent foreigners outside their borders with whom they shared little, if anything, in common.

The German's behavior during WWII is something altogether different than if they had fought only against other Germans within their Empire over irreconcilable differences.

The Nazis clearly stated in advance their objective to commit genocide and enslave the globe under their rule.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "I don't watch Disney movies anymore and don't listen to German music ... "

That's what you think!

You listen to German music almost every day of your life, only you're ignorant to the fact.

Even Hawaiian music and Mexican music are German in origin.

The 'steel guitar' and the ukelele of the Hawaiian islands were both brought there by German missionaries.

The commonly heard street music of Mexicans, with their waltz and polka beats, accordions and horns, were all introduced there when Germany colonized Mexico.

The "thoroughly American" steel guitar sound of Texas swing and Nashville Country music?

That's right!

Introduced by German settlers!

Then there's the theme music from the classic film 2001: A Space Odyssey, and even the theme from the Winter Olympics - both entirely German and both composed by a Nazi official.

The Christmas Hymn "Silent Night: Holy Night" is a German composition, sung throughout the English speaking world.

Then there's Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, ...

And nowhere on the planet can you go without seeing a Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck image.

[Rubystars]

I was also going to say he probably listens to a lot more German music than he'd like to admit to in films, on tv, etc. That also includes anything techno pretty much as they invented that too.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Muman, on this issue I cannot agree with you. You are acting like the recording and film industries are honorable, hardworking businesses, when nothing could be further from the truth. We are talking here about the slime of the world that is responsible for brainwashing billions of human beings into believing that immorality is a great thing. Frankly if I had my way the heads of these corporations wouldn't just be whining about a few lost dollars, they'd be put on trial for treason and hanged.

Do you honestly believe that Torah would defend what they do? Would Torah say it's a sin to harm the pornography or narcotics industries? It just really seems like you are stretching here to make a defense of something that is indefensible.

Have you ever heard Chaim speak about the phenomenon of so-called "piracy"? If not, you should ask him on Ask JTF. My personal hope is that when Hayamin takes power, that Israel becomes a base for filesharing to take place free from the threat of any prosecution, in order to help to bring down the horrific entertainment industry.

[muman613]

Muman, on this issue I cannot agree with you. You are acting like the recording and film industries are honorable, hardworking businesses, when nothing could be further from the truth. We are talking here about the slime of the world that is responsible for brainwashing billions of human beings into believing that immorality is a great thing. Frankly if I had my way the heads of these corporations wouldn't just be whining about a few lost dollars, they'd be put on trial for treason and hanged.

Do you honestly believe that Torah would defend what they do? Would Torah say it's a sin to harm the pornography or narcotics industries? It just really seems like you are stretching here to make a defense of something that is indefensible.

Have you ever heard Chaim speak about the phenomenon of so-called "piracy"? If not, you should ask him on Ask JTF. My personal hope is that when Hayamin takes power, that Israel becomes a base for filesharing to take place free from the threat of any prosecution, in order to help to bring down the horrific entertainment industry.

There is no justification for stealing another mans livelihood no matter how you justify it DBF. If there was no market for the product then there would be no product, simple as that. Nobody is forcing people to buy this. And the solution, as I and many others, we do not purchase this kind of entertainment.

But to justify sinning yourself because you think it is hurting the industry is plainly silly. Why would anyone want to pirate something they have no interest in listening to? Just to 'stick it to the man'? You are listening to drek because you think that somehow it will destroy the very industry you are listening to? Piracy makes no sense at all. People are stealing and thinking they are actually doing a mitzvah? Chas Veshalom!

No, you are stealing and you are guilty of theft. Stealing intellectual property is a crime, and should be prosecuted as such. I work hard in computer software and there are those who have stolen my work. Why should people be allowed to steal from my livelihood? You seem to support theft and you justify it.

As in the time of Noachs flood the theft of small things in private seem to be acceptable. Being honest and truthful are important signs of a wise person, a Torah scholar. Any form of theft, no matter how it is justified, is theft and should not be accepted.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There is no justification for stealing another mans livelihood no matter how you justify it DBF. If there was no market for the product then there would be no product, simple as that. Nobody is forcing people to buy this. And the solution, as I and many others, we do not purchase this kind of entertainment.

But to justify sinning yourself because you think it is hurting the industry is plainly silly. Why would anyone want to pirate something they have no interest in listening to? Just to 'stick it to the man'? You are listening to drek because you think that somehow it will destroy the very industry you are listening to? Piracy makes no sense at all. People are stealing and thinking they are actually doing a mitzvah? Chas Veshalom!

No, you are stealing and you are guilty of theft. Stealing intellectual property is a crime, and should be prosecuted as such. I work hard in computer software and there are those who have stolen my work. Why should people be allowed to steal from my livelihood? You seem to support theft and you justify it.

As in the time of Noachs flood the theft of small things in private seem to be acceptable. Being honest and truthful are important signs of a wise person, a Torah scholar. Any form of theft, no matter how it is justified, is theft and should not be accepted.

Muman, I do not engage in any piracy whatsoever. Period. I do not recommend that religious people of any background do either. However, I can't say that I lose sleep at multibillionaires losing a small percentage of their ill-gotten profits. This is blood money. I am speaking of this as a global issue. I think we have a very fundamental difference in philosophy when it comes to corporate power. No offense, Muman, but you defend multinational corporations every time there is a debate about them at JTF--not just this time. I happen to feel differently, and so does Chaim. There is a difference between a man, or even a business, that is earning a living in this world and a colossus that is powerful enough to breach international borders and compel governments around the world into doing its will. Do you honestly think it is a good thing that the recording industry has every regime on earth in its pocket? Do you not think that such a pervasive power like that (or the oil industry) could use its clout to usher a worldwide pogrom against Jews if it wanted to?

[cjd]

Theft is Theft no matter how you rationalize it...

I am 100% against theft of movies software or any other WAREZ these criminals are involved in...

I am ashamed that many here consider stealing to be acceptable. If you don't like the movies don't watch them, but why would you steal them if you don't like the content very much? You are fooling only yourself if you think that you are not involved with the sin of theft when you copy movies and software... Anyone who is involved with trafficking in stolen property should do time in prison.

I agree .... It really bothers me when I see people selling knock off copies of music and video Cd's or downloads.... It's counterfeiting plain and simple...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I agree .... It really bothers me when I see people selling knock off copies of music and video Cd's or downloads.... It's counterfeiting plain and simple...

Pirate Bay is a filesharing operation. Nobody profits off of it. That being said, if somebody were to go around selling fake CDs of evil artists, I can't say that would bug me too much.

[White Israelite]

Muman, on this issue I cannot agree with you. You are acting like the recording and film industries are honorable, hardworking businesses, when nothing could be further from the truth. We are talking here about the slime of the world that is responsible for brainwashing billions of human beings into believing that immorality is a great thing. Frankly if I had my way the heads of these corporations wouldn't just be whining about a few lost dollars, they'd be put on trial for treason and hanged.

Do you honestly believe that Torah would defend what they do? Would Torah say it's a sin to harm the pornography or narcotics industries? It just really seems like you are stretching here to make a defense of something that is indefensible.

Have you ever heard Chaim speak about the phenomenon of so-called "piracy"? If not, you should ask him on Ask JTF. My personal hope is that when Hayamin takes power, that Israel becomes a base for filesharing to take place free from the threat of any prosecution, in order to help to bring down the horrific entertainment industry.

There is no justification for stealing another mans livelihood no matter how you justify it DBF. If there was no market for the product then there would be no product, simple as that. Nobody is forcing people to buy this. And the solution, as I and many others, we do not purchase this kind of entertainment.

But to justify sinning yourself because you think it is hurting the industry is plainly silly. Why would anyone want to pirate something they have no interest in listening to? Just to 'stick it to the man'? You are listening to drek because you think that somehow it will destroy the very industry you are listening to? Piracy makes no sense at all. People are stealing and thinking they are actually doing a mitzvah? Chas Veshalom!

No, you are stealing and you are guilty of theft. Stealing intellectual property is a crime, and should be prosecuted as such. I work hard in computer software and there are those who have stolen my work. Why should people be allowed to steal from my livelihood? You seem to support theft and you justify it.

As in the time of Noachs flood the theft of small things in private seem to be acceptable. Being honest and truthful are important signs of a wise person, a Torah scholar. Any form of theft, no matter how it is justified, is theft and should not be accepted.

you get more time in prison downloading a movie that your not even stealing but rather making a copy of than if you were to go in the store and steal the dvd off the rack. Stealing = physically taking something from someones possession, downloading software is not taking anything.

How much money has the government stolen from us in taxes or how about all those dvd's I purchased and fell apart due to DVD rot or shoddy quality to begin with and the industry expects me to pay 50 dollars for a special edition version of the bluray? Why shouldn't I be able to record a movie on my DVR and watch it again? How about all the times we paid to go to a movie theatre to watch a movie and you have to keep paying for it? Seriously, I don't support the greed of the industry.

I guess in a rational world, we should be raiding 90 year old grandmas who download metallica on napster.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

you get more time in prison downloading a movie that your not even stealing but rather making a copy of than if you were to go in the store and steal the dvd off the rack. Stealing = physically taking something from someones possession, downloading software is not taking anything.

How much money has the government stolen from us in taxes or how about all those dvd's I purchased and fell apart due to DVD rot or shoddy quality to begin with and the industry expects me to pay 50 dollars for a special edition version of the bluray? Why shouldn't I be able to record a movie on my DVR and watch it again? How about all the times we paid to go to a movie theatre to watch a movie and you have to keep paying for it? Seriously, I don't support the greed of the industry.

I guess in a rational world, we should be raiding 90 year old grandmas who download metallica on napster.

Good post, I have nothing really to add.

[cjd]

you get more time in prison downloading a movie that your not even stealing but rather making a copy of than if you were to go in the store and steal the dvd off the rack. Stealing = physically taking something from someones possession, downloading software is not taking anything.

How much money has the government stolen from us in taxes or how about all those dvd's I purchased and fell apart due to DVD rot or shoddy quality to begin with and the industry expects me to pay 50 dollars for a special edition version of the bluray? Why shouldn't I be able to record a movie on my DVR and watch it again? How about all the times we paid to go to a movie theatre to watch a movie and you have to keep paying for it? Seriously, I don't support the greed of the industry.

I guess in a rational world, we should be raiding 90 year old grandmas who download metallica on napster.

Good post, I have nothing really to add.

Sorry can't go along with it.... I won't say I never copied something from one place or another but it still does not make it justifiable... More so when money is changing hands.....If people are paying 50 bucks for one form of media or another its because thats what the market will sustain... Why should people with a product to sell be deprived of the profit due them... It's a slippery slope when people justify one form of theft verses another... I guess this is why society is so screwed up today.

[Rubystars]

I see in the eternal battle of pirates versus ninjas, that Muman and CJD seem to be on the side of ninjas!

[White Israelite]

I see in the eternal battle of pirates versus ninjas, that Muman and CJD seem to be on the side of ninjas!

[Rubystars]

That cat might've killed the bird the feather came from, it used to have a parrot on its shoulder, but it's a cat. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I see in the eternal battle of pirates versus ninjas, that Muman and CJD seem to be on the side of ninjas!

[Rubystars]

 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Feminem, Katy Perry, Lindsey Graham, and Tony Kushner are on the side of the pirates (at least the butt-pirates, anyway).