Lets get the Pastor to join JTF lol

[Lisa]

Which Pastor

Something Jones. The guy who was going to burn the koran in florida.

His name is Pastor Terry Jones. 

Whenever I think of a Terry Jones, I think of the Monty Python actor of the same name who used to play the part of screechy old ladies. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I'm not Ron, but...

Specifically, the "parable of the ten minas" [Luke 19:11-27] has been read as a commandment to kill Jews.  Yushke is seen as "the king/nobleman" [obviously], and the Jews as the "subjects who hated him".  Obviously not all people interpret these verses as such, but for some they have been a "license to kill [the Jews]".

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A11-27&version=NIV

The reason Jews are associated by some as the "subjects who hated him" comes from numerous times in the NT where "the Jews" or "the Pharisees" are made out to be villainous.  Today's Jews, with few exceptions, are all Pharisees descendants [people who follow modern Rabbinic Judaism].

http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html

I don't doubt that sick people believe/d that but that is a horrible and grotesque misinterpretation, I can promise.

[Raulmarrio2000]

The parable about beheading the ones who did not want their King is quite probably refering to Jews, but it's a parable threatening them with Heavenly punishment. Nowhere does the NT command to kill or physically hurt anyone by the hand of man. However, there are several verses that could be interpreted as a commandedment to HATE Jews.

[Confederate Kahanist]

If it's Manning your talking about, I would love for him to join the forum!!!!!!


Such an articulate and well educated man.  A rare find in the black community.

[muman613]

Now I am confused...

What Pastor are we talking about? The majority of this thread was about Terry Jones and then some others are about Manning. I originally assumed it was about Manning, then I quickly realized it was about Jones, but now I am not sure... I am going crazy about it!!!

What Pastor are we talking about?

Maybe CARDINAL SIN?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

However, there are several verses that could be interpreted as a commandedment to HATE Jews.

Which ones?

[Raulmarrio2000]

However, there are several verses that could be interpreted as a commandedment to HATE Jews.

Which ones?

Dpn't have the verse numbers. "Synagogues of Satan....." "Sons of the devil..."  "they (those who reject Christianity) are enemies of all men, especially those who circumcise themselves." "The Pharisees and the Scribes are cursed...." " Joseph of Arimatea was a disciple of Jesus, but secretely because of fears of THE JEWS..." all the Jews? wasn't Joseph and Jesus also Jewish?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Don't have the verse numbers. "Synagogues of Satan....." "Sons of the devil..."  "they (those who reject Christianity) are enemies of all men, especially those who circumcise themselves." "The Pharisees and the Scribes are cursed...." " Joseph of Arimatea was a disciple of Jesus, but secretely because of fears of THE JEWS..." all the Jews? wasn't Joseph and Jesus also Jewish?

Isn't that proof that those statements never referred to Jews in general?

[Raulmarrio2000]

Don't have the verse numbers. "Synagogues of Satan....." "Sons of the devil..."  "they (those who reject Christianity) are enemies of all men, especially those who circumcise themselves." "The Pharisees and the Scribes are cursed...." " Joseph of Arimatea was a disciple of Jesus, but secretely because of fears of THE JEWS..." all the Jews? wasn't Joseph and Jesus also Jewish?

Isn't that proof that those statements never referred to Jews in general?

Quite difficult to say... Jesus, almost certainly spoke in Aramaic or Hebrew. The Gospel was probably recorded in one of those languages first, and then translated  to the Greek definitive version. Also the Greek of that time cannot be understood perfectly by any linguist without knowing the culture of that time. The English and Spanish versions seem to imply it refers to ALL Jews except those who became Christians, but I give it the benefit of the doubt because of the linguistic problem.

[Rubystars]

I loved the Cardinal Sin joke 

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "Jesus, almost certainly spoke in Aramaic or Hebrew. The Gospel was probably recorded in one of those languages first, and then translated  to the Greek definitive version. Also the Greek of that time cannot be understood perfectly by any linguist without knowing the culture of that time. "

The first known "book" of the New Testament was compiled no earlier than 60 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, by "second generation" followers who put to letters "word of mouth" recollections.  It is believed to be written in Damascus, and is known to us today as The Gospel of Mark.  Much of what became "Church Dogma" - the virgin birth stories and "The Annunciation by the Angel Gabriel" offered in later texts, is not mentioned at all in this first book.  All of the New Testament writings were written in the Greek language by people born into Greek culture and living in a world surrounded with numerous Greek Mystery Cults found throughout the ancient world, as well as the Cult of Mithraism which was heavily practiced in the Roman World.  Central in most of these cults was a gnostic mythos:  "The Queen of Heaven" gives virgin birth to a god-man who imparts sacred and secret knowledge to his selected followers, and then he willingly sacrifices his life, rises from the dead, and lives forever in the abode of the gods, having fulfilled his role as savior of the world.  It was not until the Third Century C.E. at the Council of Nicea held by the Emperor Constantine  that the Church leaders decided which writings were to be considered "official, unquestionable" Christian texts which became the New Testament.  The exact authorship of most of these works is unknown, even though attributed to one or another of Jesus' disciples.  All of the remaining texts which offered views about Jesus in opposition to the Church leaders were banned and burned, along with all of their followers and believers.  Thus came to be the official New Testament - a Greek book teaching Greek culture, full of inconsistencies and hypocrisies, which condemns all Jews as the enemy of G-d, and teaches that the One Indivisible Omniscient and Omnipotent Creator G-d of the Universe is now divided into Three Separate G-d Divisions - The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.  Mary is now The Queen of Heaven.  Belief in her virgin born son is the gnosis - the salvation through acceptance of secret knowledge imparted by the g=d-man sacrificing hero, and any and all Torah doctrines are deemed Satanic heresies in denial of The Son's "New Covenant" - one in which only faith that Jesus is both equal to G-d and also faith that Jesus is also G-d's own son by the Virgin Queen of Heaven is required for salvation.  It's doctrines further state that the true Covenant People, the Jews, are eternally condemned and to be considered an 'extinct race', in the future to be replaced by all who renounce Judaism and accept the god-man story.
In short:  Christianity as we know it today is little more than a rewriting of ancient Greek Gnostic Mystery Cults and the renaming of ancient pagan gods.  Its followers had no knowledge of Jews or Torah and had long been worshipping and praying to the Divine Virgin Mother of Heaven and her Son.  Their prayers included the saying the Rosary (almost identical in prose and prayer to the Catholic version today), self-flagellation (again practiced by Catholics today), and many other rites and rituals taken directly from pagan religions of the time.  As the Church spread, The Roman Feast of Saturnalia was deemed Christmas day, and the Celtic sex/fertility rites of Spring were deemed to be Easter Sunday.  Even the sun worshipper's sacred day "Sun-Day" was declared to be the official Christian Sabbath "Sunday".  While it is a fact that the people to first follow Jesus and believe that he was the Jewish Messiah were Jews from ancient Israel, they, along with anyone else who disagreed with the Council of Nicea, were declared heretics, rooted out, executed, and their books burned.
Thus began the early Christian Church, which further evolved and expanded over the next 1700 years into the bewildering forms we see today everywhere in the world.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Massa,

Most Catholics would disagree with you. Only rare forbidden sects practice self-flagellation.  That is not permitted in any mainstream Roman Catholic church.  Your statements about Catholicism and it's supposed Greek roots have been made about Judaism as well

[muman613]

Massa,

Most Catholics would disagree with you. Only rare forbidden sects practice self-flagellation.  That is not permitted in any mainstream Roman Catholic church.  Your statements about Catholicism and it's supposed Greek roots have been made about Judaism as well

Judaism pre-dates greece by many years...

Also the Catholic Bible, was first translated into Greek...


http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html

There are 304,805 letters (approximately 79,000 words) in the Torah. In the over 3,000 years since Moses received the original Scripture from Mt. Sinai and wrote the 13 copies (twelve of which were distributed among the Tribes), spelling variants have emerged on a total of nine words -- with absolutely no effect  on their meaning. The Christian Bible, in comparison, has over 200,000 variants and in 400 instances, the variants change the meaning of the text; 50 of these are of great significance.

When countering Christian Missionaries it is important to always base one's arguments on actual Scripture – the original Hebrew text (public domain applications and software are available if your browser is not Hebrew-enabled). Remember that the English translation of the Tanach (which they call the “Tanach”) in nearly every Christian Bible is taken from the Septuagint, one of many Greek translations that differed considerably from the Masoretic text. It is this Greek Septuagint, not the original Hebrew, that was the main basis for the Old Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Georgian, Slavonic, and part of the Arabic translations of the Tanach.

Even the earliest English translation of the JPS Tanach (Jewish Publication Society) was a slightly modified version of the Tanach found in the King James Bible, instead of a direct translation of the original Hebrew which accompanied it. Christian Missionaries will almost always use the English translation of the JPS Tanach as a "proof text." Far more accurate English translations of the Masoretic text are found in Koren's The Jerusalem Bible and Artscroll's Stone Edition Tanach.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman,

Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy.  Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters

[muman613]

Muman,

Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy.  Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters

Well the whole story of Channukah is the story of the small group of religious Jews who uprooted and drove out the Greek and Hellenist Jews. I never admired the Greeks, nor the Jewish Hellenists. But it is true that the secular Jew has been gravely influenced by the Greek culture. Judaism stands against many of the Greek philosophies, including the adulation of physical beauty, the belief that science and math hold all the truth of the world, and the false belief in many gods.

I don't think Judaism, the religion, owes anything to the greek culture.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Jesus spoke in Aramaic and the NT was originally written in Aramaic, at least the Gospels. Not to missionize here but just to set the record straight, the idea that the first Christians were self-hating Jews who despised their religion and wanted to change it is false. They were Jews (many of them Pharisees) who really were convinced they had found the Messiah. Of course the Jews of JTF do not agree with this, and that's okay, but I just wanted to explain their mentality.

[muman613]

Jesus spoke in Aramaic and the NT was originally written in Aramaic, at least the Gospels. Not to missionize here but just to set the record straight, the idea that the first Christians were self-hating Jews who despised their religion and wanted to change it is false. They were Jews (many of them Pharisees) who really were convinced they had found the Messiah. Of course the Jews of JTF do not agree with this, and that's okay, but I just wanted to explain their mentality.

I realize you believe that. But the Moshiach which Torah describes needs to fulfill some requirements. The Jewish people could not accept him for some very valid reasons. Jewish history records how Rabbi Akiva believed that Bar Kochbah was Moshiach because he had fulfilled many of the requirements... But once he died and did not accomplish the goals of Moshiach it was clear that he was not.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman,

Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy.  Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters

Well the whole story of Channukah is the story of the small group of religious Jews who uprooted and drove out the Greek and Hellenist Jews. I never admired the Greeks, nor the Jewish Hellenists. But it is true that the secular Jew has been gravely influenced by the Greek culture. Judaism stands against many of the Greek philosophies, including the adulation of physical beauty, the belief that science and math hold all the truth of the world, and the false belief in many gods.

I don't think Judaism, the religion, owes anything to the greek culture.

Yes this is true, but the majority of Jews after and around the time of Jesus were self-professed proud Hellenists

[muman613]

Muman,

Many times Jews have been said to have been influenced by Greek ideas and philosophy.  Look at Philo of Alexandria for starters

Well the whole story of Channukah is the story of the small group of religious Jews who uprooted and drove out the Greek and Hellenist Jews. I never admired the Greeks, nor the Jewish Hellenists. But it is true that the secular Jew has been gravely influenced by the Greek culture. Judaism stands against many of the Greek philosophies, including the adulation of physical beauty, the belief that science and math hold all the truth of the world, and the false belief in many gods.

I don't think Judaism, the religion, owes anything to the greek culture.

Yes this is true, but the majority of Jews after and around the time of Jesus were self-professed proud Hellenists

That may be one reason which led to the reform movement, assimilation, and self-hating Jews.