Can a self hating Jew ever become righteous?

[FreedomDefender]

When you alone with your porn
Gramma error. Take me to prison please  

[muman613]

Hashem hears true Teshuva even from Jews on their deathbeds...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their G-d.
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them. I am the Lord.    

Muman, this is speaking about the Jewish nation collectively, not an individual with regards to a specific sin.

It's my understanding that in halakha there ARE some sins (of an individual) for which teshuva cannot be done (by that individual)...  Am I wrong?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

When you alone with your porn

If that was a grammar error, why would you repeat the same thing 5 times? 

So now you are saying you didn't refer to something Israeli, but you are trying to say that Dr. Dan looks at porn?    Still incoherent.    Not to mention insulting and an evil thing to say.   Can you explain how porn is relevant to anything in this discussion?  Why did you bring that up?   Do you have something against JTF members?

[muman613]

http://www.aish.com/tp/i/moha/57606397.html

But the story does not end there. The Talmud tells us that Elisha ben Avuyah's greatest student, Rabbi Meir, does not abandon him. Ironically, Rabbi Meir's family has made their own journey: his father was born a non-Jew,12 a pagan, and he made his way to Judaism. Now his son's teacher takes a journey in the opposite direction. Remarkably, even after Acher abandons the path of Torah, Rabbi Meir clings to him. The Talmud records their conversations, which are peppered with debates on theological issues. Acher apparently tried to lead Rabbi Meir toward a belief in dualism by posing provocative, leading questions he thought would support his opinion:

After his apostasy, Acher asked R. Meir [a question], saying to him: What is the meaning of the verse: God has made even the one as well as the other? Kohelet 7, 14. He replied: It means that for everything that God created He created [also] its counterpart. He created mountains, and created hills; He created seas, and created rivers. Said [Acher] to him: R. Akiva, your master, did not explain it thus, but [as follows]: He created the righteous, and created the wicked; He created the Garden of Eden, and created Gehinnom. Everyone has two portions, one in the Garden of Eden and one in Gehinnom. The righteous man, being meritorious, takes his own portion and his fellow's portion in the Garden of Eden. The wicked man, being guilty, takes his own portion and his fellow's portion in Gehinnom. R. Mesharsheya said: What is the Biblical proof for this? In the case of the righteous, it is written: Therefore in their land they shall possess double. Yeshayahu 61, 7. In the case of the wicked it is written: And destroy them with double destruction. Yirmiyahu 17, 18. After his apostasy, Acher asked R. Meir: What is the meaning of the verse: Gold and glass cannot equal it; neither shall the exchange thereof be vessels of fine gold? Iyov28, 17. He answered: These are the words of the Torah, which are hard to acquire like vessels of fine gold, but are easily destroyed like vessels of glass. Said [Acher] to him: R. Akiva, your master, did not explain thus, but [as follows]: Just as vessels of gold and vessels of glass, though they be broken, have a remedy, even so a scholar, though he has sinned, has a remedy. [Thereupon, R. Meir] said to him: Then, you, too, repent! He replied: 'I have already heard from behind the Veil: Return you mischievous children - all except Acher.'

[muman613]

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their G-d.
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them. I am the Lord.    

Muman, this is speaking about the Jewish nation collectively, not an individual with regards to a specific sin.

It's my understanding that in halakha there ARE some sins (of an individual) for which teshuva cannot be done (by that individual)...  Am I wrong?

The three cardinal sins are very sticky as far as Teshuva..

[Zelhar]

Can the schvartza change his skin or the leopard its spots ?

Idk about the leopard but it's definitely possible that a schvartza can change his skin. Having said that, they end up looking much worse.

Good answer  . I vote Yes.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their G-d.
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them. I am the Lord.    

Muman, this is speaking about the Jewish nation collectively, not an individual with regards to a specific sin.

It's my understanding that in halakha there ARE some sins (of an individual) for which teshuva cannot be done (by that individual)...  Am I wrong?

The three cardinal sins are very sticky as far as Teshuva..

What about mesira?

Public Chillul Hashem?  

[muman613]

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their G-d.
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them. I am the Lord.    

Muman, this is speaking about the Jewish nation collectively, not an individual with regards to a specific sin.

It's my understanding that in halakha there ARE some sins (of an individual) for which teshuva cannot be done (by that individual)...  Am I wrong?

The three cardinal sins are very sticky as far as Teshuva..

What about mesira?

Public Chillul Hashem?  

Those are some serious offenses also. I don't actually know how teshuva can work in those circumstances. Certainly public Chillul Hashem would be difficult to rectify..

http://www.beyondbt.com/2010/09/16/do-teshuva-out-of-love-this-yom-kippur/

Advantages of Doing Teshuva out of Love
In the Aryeh Kaplan Reader article titled Yom Kippur Thoughts – A Good Day for Repentance, Rabbi Kaplan points out the tremendous advantages of doing teshuva out of love versus out of fear:
1) Your sins become merits
2) You require no further atonement even though we can’t bring a Korban these days
3) You are immediately forgiven for all your sins, even those involving Koreis or Chillul Hashem

[FreedomDefender]

There are some Jews who are hopelessly lost and are traitors...they don't have a chance...but many who are misguided do have a chance.

Just because i made a grammar error, he call me a traitor.... Thanks mister judge. What else do you know about me? By the way. When your only argument ends with only bad grammar of other person its not making you any better.  .

[White Israelite]

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their G-d.
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them. I am the Lord.    

In regards to Chillul Hashem, what about Jews who became atheists and then turn back to Judaism?

It's my understanding that in halakha there ARE some sins (of an individual) for which teshuva cannot be don
e (by that individual)...  Am I wrong?

The three cardinal sins are very sticky as far as Teshuva..

What about mesira?

Public Chillul Hashem?  

In regards to Chillul Hashem, what about Jews who became atheists and then turn back to Judaism?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

There are some Jews who are hopelessly lost and are traitors...they don't have a chance...but many who are misguided do have a chance.

Just because i made a grammar error, he call me a traitor.... Thanks mister judge. What else do you know about me? By the way. When your only argument ends with only bad grammar of other person its not making you any better.  .

He did not call you a traitor!   You misread his comment!   

It seems your comprehension of english is causing problems here, but this reaction is certainly not called for and has nothing to do with what he actually said.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their G-d.
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them. I am the Lord.    

In regards to Chillul Hashem, what about Jews who became atheists and then turn back to Judaism?

It's my understanding that in halakha there ARE some sins (of an individual) for which teshuva cannot be don
e (by that individual)...  Am I wrong?

The three cardinal sins are very sticky as far as Teshuva..

What about mesira?

Public Chillul Hashem?  

In regards to Chillul Hashem, what about Jews who became atheists and then turn back to Judaism?

Nothing wrong with turning back to Judaism and that is definitely teshuva.   

When I say chillul Hashem I refer to a specific sin carried out in public.   Here's an article that delves into this issue.
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter4-5.html

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Actually Muman, maybe I was wrong in separating chillul hashem from the 3 sins you referred to.   This ask Moses site actually defines the public chillul Hashem in the legal sense as choosing to do any of those 3 sins.   


http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/419,83/What-constitutes-a-Chillul-Hashem-desecration-of-G-ds-Name.html
“Chillul Hashem” (pronounced KHIH-lool hah-SHEM) means “Desecration of G-d’s Name.” Colloquially, it refers to personal acts/behaviors that give G-d, Judaism, Torah/Mitzvot or Jews a bad name and a bad reputation.

But in its legal sense, it refers to when a Jew is faced with the choice of a) committing one of the three cardinal sins (accepting another god or religion, murder or certain illicit sexual relations), or b) execution. If s/he chooses “a” instead of “b” that is a Chillul Hashsem.

Why is it a Chillul Hashem? Why should he die? Because belief in the Highest Power, respect of human life and sexual decency are the three core pillars of society, and a Jew giving in to these is essentially saying that the Truth is not really the truth after all. Thankfully, this form of Chillul Hashem doesn’t normally exist in Western society.

Very important: those three are the only Torah laws that a Jew must die for. If your life depended on it, you may eat non-Kosher, steal, violate the Shabbat or smack your best friend, because they’re not societal pillars like those Big Three.




But I thought that there are more things that constitute such a sin?   Even if you don't have to die, isn't it a chillul hashem to eat treif just because a gentile ruler is trying to desecrate Judaism by forcing you do it in public?

[FreedomDefender]

There are some Jews who are hopelessly lost and are traitors...they don't have a chance...but many who are misguided do have a chance.

Just because i made a grammar error, he call me a traitor.... Thanks mister judge. What else do you know about me? By the way. When your only argument ends with only bad grammar of other person its not making you any better.  .

My personal error with quote. Please ignore or enjoy, or both 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The Bible says that anybody can repent.

[Meerkat]

I use to support the 2 state solution and I use to support Marx

Now I think that the Arabs need to get out of my country and I think communism can never work, not now, not in 1000 years.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

In regards to Chillul Hashem, what about Jews who became atheists and then turn back to Judaism?
[/quote]

Yes, an unbelieving non-Halakcha following Jew who comes to embrace Judaism is called a "Ba'al Teshuvah" [Master of the Return].  I think if you search for the Hebrew term you will find more answers to your curiosity.  4Torah.com is a search engine that often leads to better results than what Google offers actually [4Torah search results have been pre-screened by Orthodox Rabbis so the information it provides is Kosher.  Muman told me about this site in the Torah forum and it has provided many, many good searches!].

[FreedomDefender]

Very "important": those three are the only Torah laws that a Jew must die for. If your life depended on it, you may eat non-Kosher, steal, violate the Shabbat or smack your best friend, because they’re not societal pillars like those Big Three.

And who said that? You. Those "big three" are taken from the third (as far as i remember) book of Hebrew Bible. And if its from Bible who is the best friend you referring to? Seems to me that its not as much important as it look like. Or maybe..just maybe... its another "Language barrier" and another "reason" to put yourself above me. Is that correct "Owner"  ?

[muman613]

Very "important": those three are the only Torah laws that a Jew must die for. If your life depended on it, you may eat non-Kosher, steal, violate the Shabbat or smack your best friend, because they’re not societal pillars like those Big Three.

And who said that? You. Those "big three" are taken from the third (as far as i remember) book of Hebrew Bible. And if its from Bible who is the best friend you referring to? Seems to me that its not as much important as it look like. Or maybe..just maybe... its another "Language barrier" and another "reason" to put yourself above me. Is that correct "Owner"  ?

In all cases a Jew is permitted to violate any commandment so long as it comes to saving his or her life. We are allowed to violate Shabbat if we have a medical emergency which threatens life {for instance to drive to the hospital}. Hashem, in the Torah, clearly says that the Mitzvot are intended for us to live by, not to die by them. So if we are in a life threatening situation and have no food to eat other than something which is non-Kosher we are allowed to eat it. If we are in a situation where life is in danger we are commanded to violate the other mitzvot.

BUT , when it comes to the three cardinal sins it is better for a Jew to die rather than transgress those three. As we said the three cardinal sins according to Jewish law are:

1) Idolatry {Worshiping a strange diety, making images, etc.}
2) Sexual Immorality {Adultery, Forbidden relationships, etc.}
3) Murder

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/581438/jewish/Is-a-Jew-required-to-die-rather-than-disobey-a-Torah-command.htm
http://www.torah.org/learning/beyond-pshat/5764/vayera.html
http://www.aish.com/jl/i/mn/48932892.html

God has commanded us in His Torah, "Keep My decrees and laws, since it is only by keeping them that a person can [truly] live" (Leviticus 18:5). Thus, if one's life is in danger, he may violate any law to save or heal himself.

The only exception to this rule are the three cardinal sins -- idolatry, murder and sexual crimes -- for which one must die rather than transgress. We are called upon to give our lives rather than transgress any law which is even associated with these three sins.

It is therefore forbidden to resort to any idolatrous faith healer or shrine, even when one is dangerously ill and a psychological cure may be effected. One may receive treatment from a non-Jewish physician, even if he is an idolater, but not from an atheistic or idolatrous psychiatrist.

It is only forbidden to save a life through idolatrous means when some religious motivation is suspected. Where no religious motivation is involved, it is permitted to make material use of objects associated with idolatry to save a life. Therefore, it is permitted to heal with drugs used in idolatrous rites, or seek asylum in a church when one is being pursued.

[FreedomDefender]

1) Idolatry {Worshiping a strange diety, making images, etc.}

Someone already violated the first law, thats for sure. (hint: "bbbbbbb....black wwwww...white aaaa....nnn and NNNNNN.....Ni@@@@s)

So muman613 your responds is correct, but my question was about: 
you may eat non-Kosher, steal, violate the Shabbat or smack your best friend, because they’re not societal pillars like those Big Three..
So if someone comes to me, threatening me with gun and forcing me to eat non-Kosher or violate Shabbat, i am  not doing chillul hashem. Accepted and understood.
Next is steal.
Well if object A threating object B and forcing him to steal, thats means object A is a thief not object B. Now i am asking, where it was written mr Kahane-Was-Right BT? Where? Do someone else also have language barrier or something like that?
Now is this: "smack your friend because they are not societal pillars".
So its ok to smack your friend just because he is not a societal pillar? Who told you that the g-d laws are "societal pillars". Who told you that? The "ownage" master maybe. 

[muman613]

1) Idolatry {Worshiping a strange diety, making images, etc.}

Someone already violated the first law, thats for sure. (hint: "bbbbbbb....black wwwww...white aaaa....nnn and NNNNNN.....Ni@@@@s)

So muman613 your responds is correct, but my question was about: 
you may eat non-Kosher, steal, violate the Shabbat or smack your best friend, because they’re not societal pillars like those Big Three..
So if someone comes to me, threatening me with gun and forcing me to eat non-Kosher or violate Shabbat, i am  not doing chillul hashem. Accepted and understood.
Next is steal.
Well if object A threating object B and forcing him to steal, thats means object A is a thief not object B. Now i am asking, where it was written mr Kahane-Was-Right BT? Where? Do someone else also have language barrier or something like that?
Now is this: "smack your friend because they are not societal pillars".
So its ok to smack your friend just because is not societal pillar? Who told you that the g-d laws are "societal pillars". Who told you that? The "ownage" master maybe. 

I do not quite understand your question. The rules regarding what sins are prohibited come from the Halacha itself. It is standard Jewish belief that observation of the mitzvot are 'Societal Pillars' upon which the world relies. If you want a Jewish source for this I will provide it for you.

http://www.aish.com/sp/pg/48884852.html

A chair needs three legs to stand. Our spiritual lives also have a 3-part balance.

    Shimon HaTzaddik was from the remnants of the Great Assembly.
    He used to say:
    On three things the world stands.
    On Torah,
    On service [of G-d],
    And on acts of human kindness.

THE WORLD IN BALANCE

Why should the world stand on three things rather than two or four or some other arbitrary number? We could easily list dozens of critical needs, obligations and aspects of life. Why does Shimon HaTzaddik stop at three, and why these three?

Our Mishnah is zeroing in on a fundamental truth about our place in the cosmos. We are not alone, and life is not ours alone. We live in a world where we are compelled to act, react and interact with others.

We have three primary relationships in life. We have to learn to live with ourself, with G-d, and with others.

Human beings interact with the world on three levels: thought, speech and action. Each of these three is the key to the three basic relationships: You act on yourself through thought or will. You interact with G-d through speech. And you relate to others through actions.

In our quest to perfect ourselves, we need to also lift others and lift our relationship with G-d. Success and balance in all three is required to truly grow in this world.

Throughout Torah literature, you will find this 3-part balance reflected. In the Rosh Hashana Machzor (prayer book), a central prayer declares:

    "Teshuva (Return), Tefillah, (Prayer) and Tzedakah (Righteousness) avert the bad decree."

This prayer is focusing on the 3-part balance offered in our Mishnah, and presents concrete tools for working on the three primary relationships. Let's examine them one by one.
.
.
.
PILLARS OF OUR MISHNAH

In our Mishnah, Shimon HaTzaddik declares that the world stands on three things: Torah, service [of G-d], and acts of human kindness.

The first pillar of creation is knowing your identity and your mission. Torah is G-d’s instructions for living. It provides the understanding to help refine our nature and perfect ourselves. It is the means by which we learn what the world is about, and what our obligations are.

Avodah, the second pillar, is service of G-d.

What does it mean to serve G-d? And why would He want us to do so? An all-powerful, perfect being has no lack for us to fill, and by definition has no need of our obeisance. So why does He want us to “serve” Him?

Clearly, service of G-d is for our benefit, not His.

Three activities are commonly referred to as “serving G-d”: prayer, mitzvot and the Temple service. The Temple service was the ultimate act of harnessing the physical, and converting it to serve the spiritual — an open and concrete demonstration of the physical world’s subordination to our will.

Mitzvot are physical actions imbued with spiritual significance. Every mitzvah involves an opportunity to use our free will to transcend visceral drives. Mitzvot are the levers which allow actions in a physical universe to have impact on a spiritual soul. Mitzvot are the embodiment of the soul harnessing the power of physicality and the body.

Prayer, as discussed above, is the process of focusing one’s will directly on ultimate goals — e.g. self perfection, a relationship with others, and a relationship with G-d.

G-d created us to impart these ultimate pleasures. The extent to which we seek to elevate our world and allow the spiritual to transcend the physical, is the extent to which we can be said to “serve G-d.” The second pillar of creation is, therefore, to fulfill your mission.

Chesed, the third pillar, is a commitment to performing acts of human kindness. Life is not a zero sum game. The success of others is your boon not your bane.

G-d created us in order to give us good. The world was designed such that the greatest good is to give to others and to be other-centered. A person totally focussed on himself and oblivious to the needs of others has, almost by definition, failed in the first two pillars. The third pillar of creation is to know that you are not in it alone. You are your brother’s keeper.

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379488/jewish/12-Worlds-3-Pillars.htm

[FreedomDefender]

Language barrier number three.

How is your describe of "societal pillars" have anything to do with "smacking your best friend"? As mentioned by me and ignored by you. In description we can see how it teach us to live and accept others, because every living forms is a g-d creation. Why do you need to smack them? Your best friend is also a g-d creation.

[White Israelite]

Didn't King David commit Adultery? Muman you had mentioned this as one of the three that cannot be forgiven.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Very "important": those three are the only Torah laws that a Jew must die for. If your life depended on it, you may eat non-Kosher, steal, violate the Shabbat or smack your best friend, because they’re not societal pillars like those Big Three.

And who said that? You. Those "big three" are taken from the third (as far as i remember) book of Hebrew Bible. And if its from Bible who is the best friend you referring to? Seems to me that its not as much important as it look like. Or maybe..just maybe... its another "Language barrier" and another "reason" to put yourself above me. Is that correct "Owner"  ?

wtf?    What is your problem?

TORAH MEANS BIBLE, yes.   You can't ask what "Torah" means without carrying on like a lunatic?    But I thought you said you were Israeli.... So you must know what the word Torah means.    Are you lying to us, "freedom" defender?