Author Topic: Enough with the Catholic Bashing  (Read 27078 times)

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Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2010, 10:36:28 AM »
Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?

I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..

I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...


Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.

A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?



No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.

Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....

Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.

Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.

Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.

No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.
Well,maybethey are some expection.I talked with many catholics and the only complaint they have about jews is their fantasy about how hitler was jewish.

Offline muman613

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2010, 10:40:23 AM »
The Pope is no friend to Israel, no friend to the Jewish people...

Why do Catholics allow such a pope who doesn't represent the ideology of Catholicism to rule? How do people claim to observe a religion which they do not follow according to the beliefs of the religion? Is this not hypocrisy?

I am honest about my observance of Judaism. When I deviate from what Judaism teaches I do not claim that I am doing right and Judaism is wrong. I admit that I am wrong and try to change my behavior to fit the ideology of the Jewish belief, as interpreted by the Jewish sages. But today people call themselves Jewish and yet violate the Shabbat, violate every negative mitzvah, and yet want to go to a liberal synagogue in order to feel good about the sins they do... That is not religion, that is simply narcissism.

I welcome people of all faiths to help support the Jewish nation. I often suspect their motives because I have heard evangelicals also want the Jews to be in Israel, but so that they can be destroyed in the Armageddon, so that their savior can 'come back' to make a second attempt at saving the world.

But if there are non-Jews, preferably Noahides, who want to help the Jewish nation then I welcome them and want them to prosper. If there are those helping Israel who have ulterior motives those motives will be discovered...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2010, 10:41:19 AM »
Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?

I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..

I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...


Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.

A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?



No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.

Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....

Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.

Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.

Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.

No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.

Sir,

That is straight from the New Testament... It clearly says that the Jews killed Jesus and that those who reject him are devils who are going to hell... That is certainly in the NT to this day..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline TheViper

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2010, 10:43:58 AM »
Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?

I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..

I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...


Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.

A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?



No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.

Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....

Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.

Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.

Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.

No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.

Sir,

That is straight from the New Testament... It clearly says that the Jews killed Jesus and that those who reject him are devils who are going to hell... That is certainly in the NT to this day..



How many Catholics do you think really believe that and because of that hate Jews?
My church never once said that Jews Killed Jesus and are going to hell for it.
I have been to a couple different Catholic churches or my life and I have never once heard the Priest utter those words ever.
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2010, 10:45:55 AM »
I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.

what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline muman613

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2010, 10:47:56 AM »
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Why_Do_People_Hate_The_Jews.htm

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/Mel_Gibson_Did_The_Jews_Kill_Jesus/



http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/blood_libel/

Crash Course in Jewish History Part 46: Blood Libel        

Nothing can rationally explain the extreme Christian accusations leveled against the Jews at this time: Jews killed babies and drank their blood!

We are about to begin discussing an excruciating period of Jewish history that is marked by constant and unrelenting Christian persecution.

During this period we will see:

    * the Jews expelled from England (1290)
    *   the Jews expelled from France (1306 and 1394)
    *   the Jews expelled from Hungary (1349 and 1360)
    *   the Jews expelled from German states (1348 and 1498)
    *   the Jews expelled from Austria (1421)
    *   the Jews expelled from Lithuania (1445 and 1495)
    *   the Jews expelled from Spain (1492)
    *   the Jews expelled from Portugal (1497)

And that’s only a partial list.

(As often as not, the Jews were expelled and then, when a significant economic decline was noted in their absence, they were re-admitted only to be expelled again. It was the classic “can’t live with them, can’t live without them” philosophy.)

The story of these persecutions really begins around the year 1000—the first millennium. It seems that people get nervous about big dates, especially Christians whose Book of Revelations predicts that at the end of a thousand years Satan will be released from prison and then he’s going to wreak havoc on the world.

The approaching millennium led to a religious revival in the Christian world which historians call the “New Piety.” The New Piety focused especially on the historicity of Jesus. Focusing on the life of Jesus meant focusing on his death. And, even though the Christian “New Testament” says that the Romans killed Jesus, the Jews were blamed for wanting him to die.

And so at this time, we see the notion of Jews as “Christ-killers”—which first surfaced in the 4th century—really growing in popularity.

But that alone does not explain the vehemence of Christian persecutions. To fully understand the issue, we have to look at other, more complex reasons.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline TheViper

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2010, 10:49:33 AM »
That does not really answer my questions since I meant how many Catholics today think like that.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2010, 10:51:09 AM »
I think I should stop commenting on this thread.

I have said what I felt... I have nothing against individuals who are born Catholics. If they were not taught to hate Jews then they are fine with me. But I have other issues also with that belief which boils down to theological issues. As long as the Church is not teaching hatred of Jews then they can believe whatever they want...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2010, 10:52:05 AM »
Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?

You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.

The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.


Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.

I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.

Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies.  It is against the Torah.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2010, 11:10:53 AM »
I have mixed feelings about the Catholic Church.  Clearly it's actions during the inquisition and the Crusades were awful but I don't hold things that happened centuries ago if those people truly are different today.  The last, Pope John Paul 2, clearly did attempt to undo the damage although even he was lacking in dealing with Israel (he did recognize Israel although he was a supporters of the so called Palestinians) he did make the Rabbi of Rome a beneficiary of his will.  So on balance the Church has not erased it's bad deeds from the past but has made progress.  If someone is making progress, I believe we work with them until such time as they show they are hopeless.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2010, 11:12:25 AM »
I have mixed feelings about the Catholic Church.  Clearly it's actions during the inquisition and the Crusades were awful but I don't hold things that happened centuries ago if those people truly are different today.  The last, Pope John Paul 2, clearly did attempt to undo the damage although even he was lacking in dealing with Israel (he did recognize Israel although he was a supporters of the so called Palestinians) he did make the Rabbi of Rome a beneficiary of his will.  So on balance the Church has not erased it's bad deeds from the past but has made progress.  If someone is making progress, I believe we work with them until such time as they show they are hopeless.


And the new pope back-pedaled by promoting a Jew-hating Holocaust denying bishop and also they reinstated a prayer which called for Jews to convert... Two steps in the wrong direction.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2010, 11:13:50 AM »
I have mixed feelings about the Catholic Church.  Clearly it's actions during the inquisition and the Crusades were awful but I don't hold things that happened centuries ago if those people truly are different today.  The last, Pope John Paul 2, clearly did attempt to undo the damage although even he was lacking in dealing with Israel (he did recognize Israel although he was a supporters of the so called Palestinians) he did make the Rabbi of Rome a beneficiary of his will.  So on balance the Church has not erased it's bad deeds from the past but has made progress.  If someone is making progress, I believe we work with them until such time as they show they are hopeless.


And the new pope back-pedaled by promoting a Jew-hating Holocaust denying bishop and also they reinstated a prayer which called for Jews to convert... Two steps in the wrong direction.



Agreed those are not good signs.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline muman613

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2010, 11:21:40 AM »
This article has some interesting discussion of possible reconciliation between the Church and the Jewish nation.



http://www.cardozoschool.org/show_article.asp?article_id=654&cat_id=2&parent_id=2&subcat_id=27&cat_name=Contemporary%20Issues&subcat_name=Other

Some reflections on the Pope’s visit to Israel
And the Future of Christianity


Benedict XVI is confused. He has a hard time with himself. He is sandwiched between the old Catholic teachings in which he was raised and the new Christianity which his great predecessor John Paul II initiated and of which he, Benedict, was partially the theologian without wanting to admit it. This gnaws at his conscience, especially now that he’s the pope and is visiting the Jews.

The late John Paul II was, in truth, an “apikores”, a Catholic heretic, although he may not have realized it. He was a man with broad shoulders, who sometimes ignored Catholic fundamentals and changed the rules of the papacy. He traveled his own way, literally and figuratively. This was possible, mainly because he was not the most profound or committed Catholic theologian. He was too great for that. He involved himself with too much “ad extra”, working outside the church, and too little “ad intra”, dealing with issues inside the Church itself, its dogmas and “facts” of faith.

Benedict, on the other hand, is a much greater theologian, with an incredible amount of knowledge and theological creativity. This, however, is his undoing. What does a man do with such brilliant new insights and the need to compress them into mainstream Catholicism and conservatism? In the end, he drowns in his own knowledge, and then discovers that he needs to wake up and start swimming in order to stay afloat, only to realize that his conservatism once again begins to gnaw at his conscience and pulls him under once again. (Sound familiar thinking of some of our own religious leaders?) This explains his dealings with the Holocaust denier Bishop Richard Williamson, as well as the reversal of the Good Friday prayer concerning the Jews, and the beatification of Pius XII whose failure to save (more) Jewish lives in the Holocaust is a large black stain on his life’s work. Benedict has a mission, but it is Mission Impossible. 

John Paul II had no such problem. He was a Christian “Chabad-nick” (lehavdil) and started a worldwide ba’al teshuva movement, aiding the disintegration of Communism and bringing his mission to millions of people by traveling to all corners of the earth.   But to do so effectively he knew he must bend the rules, and realized that novelty had to be his landmark. He simply suspended himself over the planet and landed wherever he wanted. Sure, sometimes he missed the runway, but he didn’t care too much.  He just took his plane elsewhere and landed right on the mark. He inspired, had immense chutzpah and drew the flocks as no one else ever did in Catholic history. He was condemned for focusing too much on the messenger (himself) and not enough on the message. His teachings were the outgrowth of his personality; they depended on him and not on the long-running and constant tradition of the church. But he had good reasons for doing so. Not only did he have the ideal personality for this, but above all he realized that Catholicism had to be reshaped.  It had to do away with its “theology of contempt” against the Jews, its hatred for anybody who did not believe in the canon of Catholicism. He knew that it needed a complete overhaul, that it had to admit to the “truth possibility” of other religions (first and foremost, of Judaism) and even forms of secularism.  It had to become less messianic.

True, he did not accomplish all of this. He wasn’t ready to see it through to its conclusion, but it hovered over his very being and he felt it. Above all, his cardinals, including his most important Joseph Ratzinger, the present Pope, hindered him from traveling this road and taking it to the end.

A few more popes like him could pave the way and create a new, healthy Christianity of which the world is in great need, a Christianity which would draw closer and closer to Judaism, incorporating some of its healthy foundations (as long as our contemporary Rabbis keep it healthy, which sometimes appears to be a serious problem!). It would even deny that Jesus is the Messiah, and declare him to be just a great prophet or an inspiring figure, a kind of tzaddik – righteous man, even if we Jews would not agree.

True, it may no longer be Catholicism, but it might lead to a new monotheistic religion which would do away with much of the “meshugasen” with which it is still identified. But it is not yet to be. Benedict is not the man. Although he did shape some of these new foundations in his creative theology, he does not dare to carry them through. He lacks the chutzpah and courage of his predecessor. Although he calls the Jews his brothers and sisters, and even God’s people, he does not know how to fit that into his overall conservative theology which simultaneously bursts forth with new ideas and keen insights into the problematic situation of the Christian world.

That is why he feels uncomfortable and confused, and has not been able to “deliver the goods” during his visit in Israel, leaving ambivalent messages which make us Jews nervous. But we needn’t be. It is only logical. Ultimately, conservative Christianity will disintegrate and will one day disappear. It will undergo a metamorphosis and create something with which we Jews will feel comfortable. It will be built on some of the brilliant insights of Benedict and on the marvelous chutzpa of John Paul. But, more than anything, it needs a “Jewish” pope to make it happen.   
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2010, 12:01:59 PM »
Let me say once again, we need to differentiate between the Roman Catholic Church, and individual Catholics.  We have wonderful Catholic members like Bullcat3, CJD, Masterwolf, ItalianZionist, and Vito, who have been with us from the very beginning.  I met CJD, Bullcat3, and Italian Zionist and Vito several times.  They're all very pro-Israel and pro JTF.  And they're moderators here except for Italian Zionist.  These are not the Mel and Hutton Gibson type of Catholics. 

So if people here don't like the RCC, fine.  But I don't want Masterwolf, CJD, Bullcat3, Italian Zionist and Vito to feel unwelcome here. 

Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2010, 12:22:39 PM »
I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.

what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2010, 12:23:58 PM »
I'm with you Muman.  The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2010, 12:24:32 PM »
Muman, there is a reason for Chaim's position against bashing supportive members on this forum.  He understand that it hurts our movement FAR more than it helps it.

You are offending many of our supportive members because you are calling the members here EVIL.  There is a HUGE difference between saying the catholic church and the Pope are evil (which I have said at times) and calling other members here evil.... especially members who are so supportive of Zionism.  Don't you understand why Chaim thinks its a bad idea to do this??    For the sake of our movement STOP CALLING OUR SUPPORTIVE MEMBERS EVIL!!!!!





Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2010, 12:25:36 PM »
Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?

You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.

The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.


Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.

I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.

Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies.  It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2010, 12:26:27 PM »
I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.

what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.

But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"?  Perhaps non-observant makes more sense.  Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2010, 12:27:05 PM »
I'm with you Muman.  The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people

hey long time no see!!!  Was wondering about you and where you have been.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2010, 12:27:41 PM »
I'm with you Muman.  The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people
I think you misunderstood him.He wrote CATHOLICS are evil,not that the roman catholic church is evil.This mentallity would not help our cause.

Offline briann

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2010, 12:28:58 PM »
Muman, there is a reason for Chaim's position against bashing supportive members on this forum.  He understand that it hurts our movement FAR more than it helps it.

You are offending many of our supportive members because you are calling the members here EVIL.  There is a HUGE difference between saying the catholic church and the Pope are evil (which I have said at times) and calling other members here evil.... especially members who are so supportive of Zionism.  Don't you understand why Chaim thinks its a bad idea to do this??    For the sake of our movement STOP CALLING OUR SUPPORTIVE MEMBERS EVIL!!!!!





Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2010, 12:32:54 PM »
I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.

what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.

But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"?  Perhaps non-observant makes more sense.  Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
Well,i believe that god does nbot help us unlesswe help ourselves.So i am trying to help myself more than keepong this traditions.

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2010, 12:33:47 PM »
some of my best friends are catholics.

to me it looks like catholicism and the Vatican hierarchy are 2 separate religions.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Enough with the Catholic Bashing
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2010, 12:34:29 PM »
Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?

You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.

The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.


Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.

I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.

Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies.  It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...

But Hashem makes it rain and not rain.  And how does food grow?  It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt?  Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence?  Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days?  I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.

And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.

Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations.  But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.

Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains.  WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein