The Ongoing Debates with Imerica

[ftf]

The premise behind them is the same. They are both evil, and both similar in many ways.

[Daniel]

The premise behind them is the same. They are both evil, and both similar in many ways.

Yes, that's true they're both evil, but that's like comparing comparing the evilness of Hitler to the evilness of Gargamel. There's no way we can compare the outsourcing of jobs to be nearly the same extent of evilness as the slave trade. The slaves and their labor wasn't outsourced. They were captured and forced here against their will. There's a very big difference between slave labor and the slave trade!

[ftf]

I know there is a difference, but the premise is the same.

[Daniel]

I know there is a difference, but the premise is the same.

I disagree with that, but we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[ftf]

Tell me, what is the premise of outsourcing labour? And what is the premise of slavery?

[Imerica]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

If we didn't have the Holocaust, we might not have the state of Israel today. Does that mean we should be grateful for the Holocaust?

That was the same question I asked! lol

[Imerica]

The whites didn't kidnap the blacks, they bought themfrom other blacks. In many ways it was an extension of what we see today in the moving of jobs (factories, call centres etc) to india and other such places, it was the ultimate in cheap labour. (note, I am opposed to cheap labour of any form)

OMG. Are you saying that the way that slaves were aquired wasn't THAT bad? Again, OMG!!! YES, they were bought from other blacks, but did they have to be carried away in huge cages while chained together? What was the purpose of them separating the families...even the babies from the moms? Oh, wait... the babes would have gotten in the way of 'progress'. Whatever.

[Daniel]

The whites didn't kidnap the blacks, they bought themfrom other blacks. In many ways it was an extension of what we see today in the moving of jobs (factories, call centres etc) to india and other such places, it was the ultimate in cheap labour. (note, I am opposed to cheap labour of any form)

OMG. Are you saying that the way that slaves were aquired wasn't THAT bad? Again, OMG!!! YES, they were bought from other blacks, but did they have to be carried away in huge cages while chained together? What was the purpose of them separating the families...even the babies from the moms? Oh, wait... the babes would have gotten in the way of 'progress'. Whatever.

Yeah! The babies being separated from their moms was the best thing to ever happen to them and they should feel extremely thankful for this! 

[Imerica]

Tell me, what is the premise of outsourcing labour? And what is the premise of slavery?

The premise of slavery is for the master not to exert any kind of work ethic for himself. Slavery came about because of the white man's (of that day) laziness. I equate that with people who buy acres of property now, and instead of tending to the land themselves, they hire non-registered Mexicans to do their job for them...only THANK GOD! They don't have to be beaten for the peanuts they earn.

[kahaneloyalist]

Imerica, Black on Black slavery exists to this day, and Black on Black slavery is far worse for the slaves then Black slaves owned by whites. For example the Ashanti, Ghana and Mali, all killed adult male slaves as they were considered too dangerous to keep.

I dont believe in slavery, and I think it was a terrible crime. But there isnt some sort of guilt on white people because there anscestors owned slaves, especially considering it was other blacks and Arabs who ran the slave trade, and Whites(the British) who tried to destroy the slave trade.

[Daniel]

So let me get this straight guys, it's not fair to compare the slave trade to the Holocaust but it is fair to to compare the slave trade to outsourcing labor. Call me a liberal, but this type of concept just blows my mind!

[Imerica]

Imerica, Black on Black slavery exists to this day, and Black on Black slavery is far worse for the slaves then Black slaves owned by whites. For example the Ashanti, Ghana and Mali, all killed adult male slaves as they were considered too dangerous to keep.

I dont believe in slavery, and I think it was a terrible crime. But there isnt some sort of guilt on white people because there anscestors owned slaves, especially considering it was other blacks and Arabs who ran the slave trade, and Whites(the British) who tried to destroy the slave trade.

Quit trying to make it seem as though I don't know that slavery exists. And stop making it seem as though I've only blamed the white man for the aquiring of slaves. I KNOW blacks sold their own people I'm not stupid. I don't think anyone who isn't a racist or had anything to do with the slave trade should feel guilty about anything. But understand, the slave trade, once it reached America, was controlled by white people. Not the blacks in Africa. They did their 'deed ' and got paid for it.

[cjd]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

Allen, you're just hateful. You hate when people show love. You hate when people say there are other ways to fight the evils of society.  You hate just because it feels empowering. And I just LOVE the way you twist my words into ebonics. That just goes to show how ignorant YOU are. I've never said AIN'T here. And about the Africa thing, again.. stop assuming that every black person wants to go back to Africa. And for the sake of argument, I'm NOT from Africa. I've never lived there. I never visited Africa...but probably will when my children are older. I don't want to live there though and that's what people in the real world would call a 'personal preference'.

However, since we're on the subject of who built this country, please deny that the slaves who were brought here from Africa had anything to do with the industrial development of America. All the cotton, tobacco, and indigo that was planted and picked...but not before the fields were tilled, hoed, fertilized, and sweated over.

What's interesting is that the main reason why the whites imported the the Africans as slaves is because the white Americans didn't know how to harvest their crops well enough and they needed the Africans who knew much better how to harvest the crops. Ah, but Chaim and everyone else would never admit or even recognize this now, would they? That would completely contradict the presumption that the black slaves were lazy! Oh no! The world would might stop spinning and the universe would explode!

Hey, Erica, while we're at it, the only challenge I give to you is to come back to the Ask JTF forum and continue asking and challenging Chaim. We certainly could use the variety of opinions and the challenging debates! Oh, and if you really wanted to be smart alecky, you could add it a little "mmm hmmm" as well 

But all kidding aside, have the rest of you noticed how Erica never said "mmm hmmm" or used any other type of language that even remotely resembles Ebonics?

Daniel I only hope you don't teach  history. What type of revisionist cr-p are you trying to get us to believe here Whites imported African slaves because they didn't know how to harvest crops well. Are you serious. Whites imported blacks for one reason and one reason only they wanted people with strong backs and week minds to work the fields. They were the farm equipment of the day so to speak. Plantation owners needed cheap labor to pick their vegetables just like todays farmers. I call what the government is allowing today with the open borders policy legalized slavery just as it was back then. If  Africans back in the day were able to walk to the southern plantations like the Mexicans do today they would have come in the same number on their own. They would have been called undocumented workers instead of slaves. There would have been no need to put them in bondage to get them here.
There is one thing I hate more than a Liberal it is a Liberal who spouts revisionism. If a Liberal can prove his point to me using historical accounts that existed before the PC altering of  history books thats gone on in the past 25 years I will concede the point. But posting something like that and expecting me and other people to believe a statement like that is comical. Why do you Liberals feel that you have to give blacks and other minorities a made up history and not just let them have the documented history they have.
Blacks in Africa were hunters and gatherers they didn't farm they didn't have plantations. What would they have known about harvesting crops. I would like to see some documentation of the great cotton or tobacco plantations they had back on the old sod that gave them all this knowledge. When plantation owners bought a slave years ago it was just like a farmer going to the John Deer dealer today and buying a combine. Slavery was legal slave owners didn't know that 200 years or so in the future they would be looked on with such disdain. They were buying a slave to work the fields and do as directed not as a agricultural adviser.

Oh my! The whites kidnapped the blacks as slaves because they wanted, "strong backs and weak minds" Wow! I'm no history teacher (I'm a speech-language teacher), the more liberal teachers are the ones that teach Social Studies. But I dare you to walk into a classroom and teach slavery with this account, stong backs and week minds and that they were the equivelent of lawn tractors. If that is in fact true, that's a very sick mentality that the White man had back then!

Oh My what? Who said anything about whites kidnapping anyone. You make off the wall statements that no one says. Also you really need to read a history book or two before you make statements as you do on historical facts. Blacks were taken into bondage by their black brothers. Do you really believe that white slave traders were going into Africa and taking people from their homes? Blacks were taken by other blacks and sold to the slave traders at ports that were set up for this sort of commerce. So in a matter of speaking the first slavers were the blacks themselves. If I walked into a classroom and was to give a class on that subject matter I would be doing Black children a service because they would be getting the truth and not the pack of made up lies that Liberals like to feed Black children. I would explain to them that it hard to understand things today as they were back then but this is the real deal and this is the way things were done back then. Why cant Black children except the fact that the first people that took their ancestors from their homes was another black, why can't they be told that plantation owners wanted them for their labor and not their minds and yes they were equivalent to a lawn tractor to some plantation owners, why can't Black children be told that prior to the civil war it was legal and acceptable by the standards of the time to own slaves although many plantation owners kept them reluctantly. Instead Liberal educators fill the poor kids minds with fairy tails and make them hate white folks even more because they are smart enough to know the are being fed a crock of [censored]. Educators should tell Black children to work hard and succeed and build a real history not some made up garbage. Finally the white man didn't have a sick mentality back then they were doing what was accepted in the 17 & 1800s. This all was an accepted way of life and the way things were done back then.

[ftf]

The whites didn't kidnap the blacks, they bought themfrom other blacks. In many ways it was an extension of what we see today in the moving of jobs (factories, call centres etc) to india and other such places, it was the ultimate in cheap labour. (note, I am opposed to cheap labour of any form)

OMG. Are you saying that the way that slaves were aquired wasn't THAT bad? Again, OMG!!! YES, they were bought from other blacks, but did they have to be carried away in huge cages while chained together? What was the purpose of them separating the families...even the babies from the moms? Oh, wait... the babes would have gotten in the way of 'progress'. Whatever.

I don't quite get you sometimes, you read things into what I've written that just aren't there, I've said repeatedly that slavery was and is a terrible evil, I was just correcting someone who had said that the whites kidnapped the blacks, which just isn't true, they bought them from other blacks who had done the kidnapping.

[cjd]

So let me get this straight guys, it's not fair to compare the slave trade to the Holocaust but it is fair to to compare the slave trade to outsourcing labor. Call me a liberal, but this type of concept just blows my mind!

What exactly does the Holocaust have to do with slavery? Now you are really getting in deep here.

[Imerica]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

Allen, you're just hateful. You hate when people show love. You hate when people say there are other ways to fight the evils of society.  You hate just because it feels empowering. And I just LOVE the way you twist my words into ebonics. That just goes to show how ignorant YOU are. I've never said AIN'T here. And about the Africa thing, again.. stop assuming that every black person wants to go back to Africa. And for the sake of argument, I'm NOT from Africa. I've never lived there. I never visited Africa...but probably will when my children are older. I don't want to live there though and that's what people in the real world would call a 'personal preference'.

However, since we're on the subject of who built this country, please deny that the slaves who were brought here from Africa had anything to do with the industrial development of America. All the cotton, tobacco, and indigo that was planted and picked...but not before the fields were tilled, hoed, fertilized, and sweated over.

What's interesting is that the main reason why the whites imported the the Africans as slaves is because the white Americans didn't know how to harvest their crops well enough and they needed the Africans who knew much better how to harvest the crops. Ah, but Chaim and everyone else would never admit or even recognize this now, would they? That would completely contradict the presumption that the black slaves were lazy! Oh no! The world would might stop spinning and the universe would explode!

Hey, Erica, while we're at it, the only challenge I give to you is to come back to the Ask JTF forum and continue asking and challenging Chaim. We certainly could use the variety of opinions and the challenging debates! Oh, and if you really wanted to be smart alecky, you could add it a little "mmm hmmm" as well 

But all kidding aside, have the rest of you noticed how Erica never said "mmm hmmm" or used any other type of language that even remotely resembles Ebonics?

Daniel I only hope you don't teach  history. What type of revisionist cr-p are you trying to get us to believe here Whites imported African slaves because they didn't know how to harvest crops well. Are you serious. Whites imported blacks for one reason and one reason only they wanted people with strong backs and week minds to work the fields. They were the farm equipment of the day so to speak. Plantation owners needed cheap labor to pick their vegetables just like todays farmers. I call what the government is allowing today with the open borders policy legalized slavery just as it was back then. If  Africans back in the day were able to walk to the southern plantations like the Mexicans do today they would have come in the same number on their own. They would have been called undocumented workers instead of slaves. There would have been no need to put them in bondage to get them here.
There is one thing I hate more than a Liberal it is a Liberal who spouts revisionism. If a Liberal can prove his point to me using historical accounts that existed before the PC altering of  history books thats gone on in the past 25 years I will concede the point. But posting something like that and expecting me and other people to believe a statement like that is comical. Why do you Liberals feel that you have to give blacks and other minorities a made up history and not just let them have the documented history they have.
Blacks in Africa were hunters and gatherers they didn't farm they didn't have plantations. What would they have known about harvesting crops. I would like to see some documentation of the great cotton or tobacco plantations they had back on the old sod that gave them all this knowledge. When plantation owners bought a slave years ago it was just like a farmer going to the John Deer dealer today and buying a combine. Slavery was legal slave owners didn't know that 200 years or so in the future they would be looked on with such disdain. They were buying a slave to work the fields and do as directed not as a agricultural adviser.

Oh my! The whites kidnapped the blacks as slaves because they wanted, "strong backs and weak minds" Wow! I'm no history teacher (I'm a speech-language teacher), the more liberal teachers are the ones that teach Social Studies. But I dare you to walk into a classroom and teach slavery with this account, stong backs and week minds and that they were the equivelent of lawn tractors. If that is in fact true, that's a very sick mentality that the White man had back then!

Oh My what? Who said anything about whites kidnapping anyone. You make off the wall statements that no one says. Also you really need to read a history book or two before you make statements as you do on historical facts. Blacks were taken into bondage by their black brothers. Do you really believe that white slave traders were going into Africa and taking people from their homes? Blacks were taken by other blacks and sold to the slave traders at ports that were set up for this sort of commerce. So in a matter of speaking the first slavers were the blacks themselves. If I walked into a classroom and was to give a class on that subject matter I would be doing Black children a service because they would be getting the truth and not the pack of made up lies that Liberals like to feed Black children. I would explain to them that it hard to understand things today as they were back then but this is the real deal and this is the way things were done back then. Why cant Black children except the fact that the first people that took their ancestors from their homes was another black, why can't they be told that plantation owners wanted them for their labor and not their minds and yes they were equivalent to a lawn tractor to some plantation owners, why can't Black children be told that prior to the civil war it was legal and acceptable by the standards of the time to own slaves although many plantation owners kept them reluctantly. Instead Liberal educators fill the poor kids minds with fairy tails and make them hate white folks even more because they are smart enough to know the are being fed a crock of [censored]. Educators should tell Black children to work hard and succeed and build a real history not some made up garbage. Finally the white man didn't have a sick mentality back then they were doing what was accepted in the 17 & 1800s. This all was an accepted way of life and the way things were done back then.

AGAIN NO ONE IS DENYING THAT BLACKS WERE SELLING OTHER BLACKS TO THE WHITE MAN!!!! But you are making it seem like it was alright for them to take them away from their land in chains and cages, pack them into boats like sardines (something that the blacks didn't particpate in. ) Rape the women, separate the families...especially innocent newborns from their mothers. You make it seem like it was something that people RIGHT NOW should say "Wow, thank GOD that they took us away to treat us worse!" Whatever.

And the black youth of today DO need to learn the truth..that blacks did sell other blacks into slavery but they also need to know what happened during the trip to America and what happened once they arrived to America. If you want to tell the truth...tell the entire truth. Not the truth as YOU want to see it.

[ftf]

I agree with everything that you say in you're most recent post, Imerica.

[cjd]

What is the truth that they were importing Black Geniuses to teach the stupid white man how to farm? By all means tell the unvarnished truth but don't give me and other people who know better revisionism.

[cjd]

Imerica, I don't care if they give a blow by blow description of how slaves were treated when they were bought here as long as it is a factual account that is truthful. I think of slavery as an evil thing and I honestly wish that it never took place for anyone. All I want is the real facts good or bad. This said I have no guilt about slavery since my family came to this country after the civil war and had nothing in the least to gain or loose by slavery. When my great grandfather came to this country he worked just like a slave to make his way and back then their wasn't social programs to see that you had a place to sleep and a roof over your head. I may sound cold but revisionism is a thing that irritates me to no end. It serves no one well.   

[Imerica]

What is the truth that they were importing Black Geniuses to teach the stupid white man how to farm? By all means tell the unvarnished truth but don't give me and other people who know better revisionism.

The truth is that the white plantation owners were too lazy to farm for themselves. I liken it to people who live beyond their means then find cheap labor to do their dirty work for them. The unvarnished truth is that the slaves didn't ask to come to America. They didn't ask to be sold by their own people to people who would separate their families, beat them, rape the women, hang and burn them. The unvarnished truth is that there were people against slavery (otherwise there wouldn't have been any free states in America) but it took 400 years for slavery to be abolished.

And I don't remember who said this but "This all was an accepted way of life and the way things were done back then. "... that's a crazed statement right there. If I'd told you that rape should be acceptable because it happens, what would you say, cjd?

[Imerica]

Imerica, I don't care if they give a blow by blow description of how slaves were treated when they were bought here as long as it is a factual account that is truthful. I think of slavery as an evil thing and I honestly wish that it never took place for anyone. All I want is the real facts good or bad. This said I have no guilt about slavery since my family came to this country after the civil war and had nothing in the least to gain or loose by slavery. When my great grandfather came to this country he worked just like a slave to make his way and back then their wasn't social programs to see that you had a place to sleep and a roof over your head. I may sound cold but revisionism is a thing that irritates me to no end. It serves no one well.   

Why are you lamenting to me that you have no guilt about slavery? No one thinks that you should feel any guilt. That's not your problem...just like the problems in the black community aren't my problems. The facts I mentioned though aren't watered-down versions of the truth but real facts. Social change is still on the rise though. Back when your grandfather came to this country, there was need for the programs but they didn't exist because no one was thinking on that front at that time. The programs came about because the evolution of ideas for social change. Back when those programs were a hand up not a hand-out.

[kahaneloyalist]

What is the truth that they were importing Black Geniuses to teach the stupid white man how to farm? By all means tell the unvarnished truth but don't give me and other people who know better revisionism.

The truth is that the white plantation owners were too lazy to farm for themselves. I liken it to people who live beyond their means then find cheap labor to do their dirty work for them. The unvarnished truth is that the slaves didn't ask to come to America. They didn't ask to be sold by their own people to people who would separate their families, beat them, rape the women, hang and burn them. The unvarnished truth is that there were people against slavery (otherwise there wouldn't have been any free states in America) but it took 400 years for slavery to be abolished.

And I don't remember who said this but "This all was an accepted way of life and the way things were done back then. "... that's a crazed statement right there. If I'd told you that rape should be acceptable because it happens, what would you say, cjd?

Very few whites owned signifigant numbers of slaves, only the top three percent of Southern Farmers could afford to have a plantation run by slaves. Most farmers had to make do with paid labor and working themselves.

Violence against slaves was actually rare, provided they didnt run away. It may sound callous but hurting your slave would be like taking a sledgehammer to your tractor, you would be hurting the very source of your livelihood.

And you should know that though the vast majority of black slaves that were sent out of Africa went to the Arab world their are very few blacks in the Arabs world. why? Because Muslims castrate their male slaves, something Whites never did.

[Imerica]

What is the truth that they were importing Black Geniuses to teach the stupid white man how to farm? By all means tell the unvarnished truth but don't give me and other people who know better revisionism.

The truth is that the white plantation owners were too lazy to farm for themselves. I liken it to people who live beyond their means then find cheap labor to do their dirty work for them. The unvarnished truth is that the slaves didn't ask to come to America. They didn't ask to be sold by their own people to people who would separate their families, beat them, rape the women, hang and burn them. The unvarnished truth is that there were people against slavery (otherwise there wouldn't have been any free states in America) but it took 400 years for slavery to be abolished.

And I don't remember who said this but "This all was an accepted way of life and the way things were done back then. "... that's a crazed statement right there. If I'd told you that rape should be acceptable because it happens, what would you say, cjd?

Very few whites owned signifigant numbers of slaves, only the top three percent of Southern Farmers could afford to have a plantation run by slaves. Most farmers had to make do with paid labor and working themselves.

Violence against slaves was actually rare, provided they didnt run away. It may sound callous but hurting your slave would be like taking a sledgehammer to your tractor, you would be hurting the very source of your livelihood.

And you should know that though the vast majority of black slaves that were sent out of Africa went to the Arab world their are very few blacks in the Arabs world. why? Because Muslims castrate their male slaves, something Whites never did.

I did mention that there were free states. I'm not saying that every white person owned slaves. I'm putting the blame where it belongs.

[Imerica]

What is the truth that they were importing Black Geniuses to teach the stupid white man how to farm? By all means tell the unvarnished truth but don't give me and other people who know better revisionism.

And obviously the slaves didn't teach them anything. They weren't kidnapped to America to be forced to teach the white man how to do anything. They were forced to do HIS job while he sat on his duff and cracked the whip. How enterprising of them...(those who did partipate in the owning of slaves.)

[Bannedfan]

Erica, nobody here DEFENDS slavery. It was not nice, but do you honestly think white Southern farmers, particularly poor ones (who were the vast majority) were treated nicely either by those in power? And do you have any clue what the Irish went through? The Chinese? Or, most of all, the Native Americans?

The instances of abuse/torture/murder of slaves were really quite rare. Most white Southerners would have rather been castrated than miscegenate, for instance, using the allegation of rape. Certainly they were treated better than their fellow African and Muslim overlords ruled over them in their native land.

And no, they did not ask to come to America, but I know for a fact that they had infinitely better lives as slaves to white Southerners than as slaves to other Africans.