Q & A with Moshe Feiglin ( from 'The Jewish Star' )

[eb22]

In the upcoming "  Ask JTF" program,    I'm going to ask Chaim a question regarding Moshe Feiglin.      I certainly respect Chaim's viewpoint about the dangers of the Likud Party and it being very unlikely that Moshe Feiglin can be elected P.M.  as a member of the Likud Party.        

Having said that,   I heard Moshe Feiglin speak in Cedarhurst this past Wednesday Night and was very impressed with what he had to say.       The following article is in essence a sample of what Moshe Feiglin mentioned at the event in Cedarhurst:


http://www.thejewishstar.com/stories/Im-going-to-be-the-next-Prime-Minister-of-Israel,2328?content_source=&category_id=&search_filter=feiglin&event_mode=&event_ts_from=&list_type=&order_by=&order_sort=&content_class=&sub_type=&town_id=

[The proud Jew]

Why is he so stupidly stuborn on taking over likud?

[eb22]

Why is he so stupidly stuborn on taking over likud?

Moshe Feiglin seems to be of the opinion that the only way he can emerge as Prime Minister is through the Likud,   not through one of the smaller political parties.   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I believe that even Feiglin has given up on the idea.   I'll post more later, have to run.

[eb22]

Kahane-Was-Right BT ,   I'm definitely interested in your input on the article and the video I put together from the event in Cedarhurst this past Wednesday Night.     The same with all JTF members.  

My impression at this time is Moshe Feiglin believes that remaining in the Likud is the only viable solution.  

Because Chaim has been proven correct on a regular basis when it comes to election predictions ( and on a multitude of other issues ),    I'm skeptical that Moshe Feiglin can get to the top of the ladder in the Likud Party.     But in terms of positions,    Moshe Feiglin seems to agree with the core of JTF's positions:




  

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Here is a very telling comment that Moshe feiglin included in a recent article:  "We do not expect to win a political victory that will allow us to change the rules of the game in Israel.  On the contrary. "
The game itself is about to change."

I think he is admitting there that he knows his strategy will not work.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10082


He thinks that something has changed israeli society in a profound way because of recent events and so he sees a chance for them to fill that vaccuum.  But unfortunately he may be grasping for straws but at very least it definitely shows that he lost hope in the prior strategy ever working without some fundamental change in society happening first.  I think he reached this conclusions when bibi blocked the likud central committee elections and manhigut yehudit considered leaving likud at that time.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Bump

[eb22]

Kahane-Was-Right BT,   thanks for your additional input.

I agree that the Israeli public collective line of thinking must change substantially for Moshe Feiglin to emerge as the Israeli P.M.  Unfortunately though,    for JTF to become a mass movement in Israel,    the mindset of the Israeli public must also substantially change.     While JTF has a different view point of what it will take for the right type of leadership to emerge at the top of the Israeli Government,   both JTF and Moshe Feiglin are fighting against the odds.      Especially since the establishment in Israel,   including the media and courts,   is heavily left wing.     The good news is I'm convinced JTF has G-d on our side.     But all of us must continue to support JTF,   as we can't depend on miracles.   

I heard Chaim's answer to my question on March 28,  2011 "  Ask JTF"  program and totally respect Chaim's point of view.     While I like Moshe Feiglin ( I'm disappointed about his view point of the late and great Dr. Baruch Goldstein ),   there's no question that his presence in the Likud party is helping that horrific party.      That's the most problematic aspect in terms of supporting Moshe Feiglin,   moving forward.  

[wonga66]

There is an interview with Feiglin in this week's JP Magazine. Since the "car accident" of his son, he has been off the political scene.

Unfortunately Feiglin he has also become very wimpish, and is now very supportive of Pippy and others, greatly regretting having been "so hard" on them in the past.

Feigilin has joined the long list of disappointing potential right-wing leaders: he is now most definitely not "The Man"!

Feiglin would rather sit at a table with Shulamit Aloni than with Chaim! Indeed, he has gone so wimpish, that he would walk out if Chaim walked in.

Indeed, if Chaim walked in, almost everyone would walk out, including most Kachniks and Kahane Chainiks: that's an excellent sign that Chaim's on the right track!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

There is an interview with Feiglin in this week's JP Magazine. Since the "car accident" of his son, he has been off the political scene.

Unfortunately Feiglin he has also become very wimpish, and is now very supportive of Pippy and others, greatly regretting having been "so hard" on them in the past.

Stop speaking lashon hara.

He is against bibi in every one of his articles.  Ever bother to read them?

Feigilin has joined the long list of disappointing potential right-wing leaders: he is now most definitely not "The Man"!

Feiglin would rather sit at a table with Shulamit Aloni than with Chaim! Indeed, he has gone so wimpish, that he would walk out if Chaim walked in. 

You have no evidence for this.  It's your imagination.  You just make things up and spew them out of your mouth.   Stop with the motzi shem ra and/or lashon hara.

[muman613]

Stop speaking lashon hara.

He is against bibi in every one of his articles.  Ever bother to read them?

You have no evidence for this.  It's your imagination.  You just make things up and spew them out of your mouth.   Stop with the motzi shem ra and/or lashon hara.

I definitely agree.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahane-Was-Right BT,   thanks for your additional input.

I agree that the Israeli public collective line of thinking must change substantially for Moshe Feiglin to emerge as the Israeli P.M.  Unfortunately though,    for JTF to become a mass movement in Israel,    the mindset of the Israeli public must also substantially change.     While JTF has a different view point of what it will take for the right type of leadership to emerge at the top of the Israeli Government,   both JTF and Moshe Feiglin are fighting against the odds.      Especially since the establishment in Israel,   including the media and courts,   is heavily left wing.     The good news is I'm convinced JTF has G-d on our side.     But all of us must continue to support JTF,   as we can't depend on miracles.   

Very good point, eb22.  However, I do think his comment is indicative of something more than what I characterized as the "very least" one could draw in conclusion.  What I see is the fact that Moshe Feiglin has fallen into a delusion that is all too common amongst rightwing Jews.  The idea that this latest attack was so brutal and hideous, therefore Israelis are bound to wake up and change their mind about oslo and throw out the regime because of this, is in fact a delusion and a pipe dream.  Because every attack always seems that way.   And then it fades into memory and it's back to business as usual, and the people accept the lies told to them by the govt that there is no choice but to negotiate and surrender etc.

It's true, the mindset of the public at large does need to change for true leadership to emerge (whether it's hayamin haamiti or in the case of manhigut yehudit), however, I see that Chaim is actively striving to bring about that change in public consciousness, whereas, it appears from Moshe's statement and a general attitude that is all too common in those circles, that this change will happen of its own accord and then he intends to react and lead in the right direction at that point.   But nothing is guaranteed.   And not to say that Moshe doesn't do a lot of great work, and he does have a lot of writings, but from what I see he is not doing the kind of hands-on grunt work and grassroots activism that will enliven the nation.  He is watching it unfold - watching the "game change" - and hoping to step in.  But what if that's not really unfolding and we are fooling ourselves like all the times in the past while the game really doesn't change by itself?    And not to compare with Chaim because that's not really my point, but since we're on the subject, I see that Chaim is able to do these things, the grassroots activism and appealing strongly to the youths on a consistent basis, and he can't even step foot in Israel.  Imagine what he would do if he was there!      

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I pray he ends up like his beloved Fuhrer Rabin

[muman613]

I pray he ends up like his beloved Fuhrer Rabin

I guess I missed it... Did he support rabin?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I guess I missed it... Did he support rabin?

"I strongly condemn this criminal murder.. I couldn't sleep all night. A murder of a Prime Minister in Israel - the State of the Jews - was an impossible thing for me, beyond all imagination. For some reason I thought that it can't happen in our place. Something was destroyed in that night, when the Israeli society lost its innocence in the freezing smile of a psycopath."

[muman613]

I understand that he said that, but it must be understood in context. Even though everyone did not love JFK most Americans were horrified at the assassination. I know you will not understand, but in a way I can forgive this in light of other things which are said about him.

For instance from the Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

Manhigut Yehudit as an initiative was first proposed by Feiglin and Karpel, coincidentally, on the night of Yitzchak Rabin's assassination in November 1995. Likud Chairman Benjamin Netanyahu's surprise defeat of Labor's Shimon Peres the following year on the heals of Zo Artzeinu's protests had, in Feiglin's mind, given the Oslo Accords the Israeli Right's sanction when Netanyahu shook Yasser Arafat's hand and continued the Oslo Process, giving the Israeli voter no real alternative to Oslo besides slight tactical differences toward its eventual fruition. It was at this realization that Feiglin decided to enter politics in order to formulate that alternative himself by running for the Prime Ministership directly.
.
.
.

Feiglin says that the movement’s leadership will arise from "those who have a deep commitment to Torah values." Still, 30 percent of its present members are secular (2005). He opposes the surrender of what he regards as Jewish land, and has demanded the government take action against the estimated 50,000 illegal Arab structures built throughout the country. Feiglin has stated that Likud had "given up true Likud values and acquiesced in the Gaza evacuation."[5]

Feiglin has been on public record supporting the willful transfer of Arab citizens of Israel who do not accept Jewish sovereignty over the state. This emigration would be encouraged with financial incentives.

Although some of Feiglin's opponents have described him as a latter-day version of Rabbi Meir Kahane, he has stated on several occasions that he disagrees with many of Kahane's policies.[6] While Manhigut's co-founder, Shmuel Sackett, had close ties with Rabbis Meir and Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane, there is little evidence directly connecting Feiglin with Kahane, although there are several ideological similarities between them, such as supporting "induced emigration", developing a legal system more consistent with Halakha, and restricting Israeli citizenship to Jews. [7] In 2005, Feiglin took this idea a step further and suggested that all Jews who wished to be citizens of Israel, regardless of where they lived, should be given full citizenship and voting rights.[8] Feiglin and Sackett are distinguished most from traditional Kahanism through their commitment to nonviolent protest. Kahanism is often associated with militancy and a tacit acceptance of, if not outright support for, violence. Conversely, Feiglin and Sackett are also attacked in some right-wing Religious Zionist circles (including Kahane supporters) for selling out to the Likud.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ron has a way of making everyone a nazi.

Granted I can't. Understand how anyone can condemn amir, but that doesn't make feiglin a rabin supporter either

[wonga66]

The article (Jerusalem Post Magazine March 25, p14) entitled "The accidental transformation of Moshe Feiglin - the far-right Likud activist is adopting a kinder, gentler approach", states:


Feiglin admits that he was an angry person. He was bitter at the many obstacles and circumstances that have been put in his way and blocked his political rise. And he was fecociously critical of PM Netanyahu and his other adversaries.....now since the accident he says his indignation has subsided. He is more accepting , less bitter, and even has a nice thing to to say about Netanyahu...."I am not mad against anyone, certainly not Netanyahu. I am less of an angry person, because the accident put things in proportion. ....I realized after the accident that I had shot myself in the foot when I let my anger get the best of me and said things I now regret. I crossed red lines in my relations with Netanyahu....it doesn't matter who is right - you need to act differently....I should have held back...I should have absorbed the blows and not responded." He says that under the current circumstances, "Netanyau is the ideal leader.....no one can lead the country better than Netanyahu, including myself....I don't have major complaints....people will realize that his Manhigut Yehudit group in the Likud was right all along....the establishment in Judea and Samaria are now all in Likud...I am glad that people with loyal views shouldn't be in small parties...I still want to lead the country, but I don't need to be Popeye any more...I don't have to fight anyone...I don't have to hate anyone"



With all due comiseration to him, but for a Kahanist, Feiglin's kind of milquetoast talk is kfirah.

Can you imagine true ideologues like a Rav Meir Kahane or a Chaim ben Pesach wimping out and speaking like this, no matter what their personal circumstances?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Ron has a way of making everyone a nazi.

Yea you're right. Calling him a Nazi would be a compliment for that sub-human filth

Granted I can't. Understand how anyone can condemn amir, but that doesn't make feiglin a rabin supporter either

This dishonest insanity is the same garbage phony right wingers always drone when claim to be right wing at the same time they fanatically defend the Arab Nazi baby slaughterers against Jewish hero Baruch Goldstein and compare him to Hamas. That phony beast Feiglin defends mass murderer Rabin against freedom fighter Yigal Amir using the same arguments left-wingers always use and calls him a "psycopath" and a "criminal murderer". So what's the difference between him and your typical Rabin state worshipper? that he wears a kippa on his head?

Talking about his kippa, Feiglin is mumbling this garbage in the name of this kippah he has, as if his treacherous position represents Judaism. Torah perversion and distrotion are worse than murder. So even if Yigal Amir was, G-d forbid, a criminal murderer as this frog-faced beast calls him, he would still have a place in the World to Come. But a so-called religious Jew who twists Torah in the name of secular Zionism doesn't

I understand that he said that, but it must be understood in context. Even though everyone did not love JFK most Americans were horrified at the assassination. I know you will not understand, but in a way I can forgive this in light of other things which are said about him.

HOW DARE YOU compare Yigal Amir's unimagineable sacrifice to save the Jews from the second Holocaust Rabin was  perpetrating to that worthless pig's assasination? you think Jewish life and land are pick-up sticks you can play with and sacrifice in the name of your holy Hellenist democracy and tolerance?  

We just celebrated Purim. Mordechai killed Haman who did not murder a single Jew. Yigal slayed a ruthless Qaddafist dictator who murdered THOUSANDS OF JEWS (including Holocaust survivors who had all of their families murdered in the Nazi Holocaust) and if not for Yigal, none of the Israeli posters of this forum would be here to see "experts" like you and KWR cynically discussing our right to exist from your strategic location in Brooklyn and California

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The article (Jerusalem Post Magazine March 25, p14) entitled "The accidental transformation of Moshe Feiglin - the far-right Likud activist is adopting a kinder, gentler approch", states:


Feiglin admits that he was an angry person. He was bitter at the many obstacles and circumstances that have been put in his way and blocked his political rise. And he was fecociously critical of PM Netanyahu and his other adversaries.....now since the accident he says his indignation has subsided. He is more accepting , less bitter, and even has a nice thing to to say about Netanyahu...."I am not mad anyone, certainly not Netanyahu. I am less of an angry person, because the accident put things in proportion. ....I realized after the accident that I had shot myself in the foot when I let my anger get the best of me and said things I now regret. I crossed red lines in my relations with Netanyahu....it doesn't matter who is right - you need to act differently....I should have held back...I should have absorbed the blows and not responded." He says that under the current circumstances, "Netanyau is the ideal leader.....no one can lead the country better than Netanyahu, including myself....I don't have major complaints....people will realize that his Manhigut Yehudit group in the Likud was right all along....the establishment in Judea and Samaria are now all in Likud...I am glad that people with loyal views shouldn't be in small parties...I still want to lead the country, but I don't need to be Popeye any more...I don't have to fight anyone...I don't have to hate anyone"

I think I'm going to be sick. 

It is clear that moshe has been traumatized.   I wish him and his son a refuah shelema.
He is clearly unfit to lead and there is no question anymore that the manhigut yehudit delusion must be abandoned.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Also I apologize wonga because you were right about this as you have proven.

[muman613]

All I hear is complaints and complaints and more complaints. Yet there is nobody in the political system which meets all the qualifications of a 'Kahanist' candidate. So what are we supposed to do? Just sit on our hands and not support anyone in the current Israeli government. I fully understand that we cannot show weakness but how do we exist in a political system? Currently Israel is a democratic system and short of a civil war I suspect it will still be a democratic system tomorrow. I also realize that the Israeli system is not an ideal democratic system since it is derived from a communist system which does not allow any party to wield enough power to actually change anything.

I would be interested in hearing the positive developments instead of constantly hearing the negatives. Moshe has seemed to have been a good candidate who was moving in the right direction. I thought it would be beneficial to support candidates who somewhat support Kahanist ideas such as relocating the arabs who currently occupy Israel. But I had no illusion that Moshe would rise to the level of a Chaim or any other open Kahanist leader. I am looking toward a slow evolution of politics in Israel instead of an immediate revolution...

Please don't be so argumentative if I don't quite see things the way you do. It would be best if you presented your opinion and allowed others to digest it...

[wonga66]

This was Feiglin at his best in early 2009



The "car accident" of his son has unforunately taken him out of the political equation.

Although throwing in with the Likud was a gross error by him, his presence as a gadfly in that neveiloh party served a purpose, of sorts.

If he had thrown in his lot with Ichud Leumi, or before that Marzel's party, he would have done well.

But being a born-Israeli, like all Israelis, Feiglin is none too smart and is hobbled by an overweening massive ego.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

All I hear is complaints and complaints and more complaints. Yet there is nobody in the political system which meets all the qualifications of a 'Kahanist' candidate. So what are we supposed to do? Just sit on our hands and not support anyone in the current Israeli government. I fully understand that we cannot show weakness but how do we exist in a political system? Currently Israel is a democratic system and short of a civil war I suspect it will still be a democratic system tomorrow. I also realize that the Israeli system is not an ideal democratic system since it is derived from a communist system which does not allow any party to wield enough power to actually change anything.

I would be interested in hearing the positive developments instead of constantly hearing the negatives. Moshe has seemed to have been a good candidate who was moving in the right direction. I thought it would be beneficial to support candidates who somewhat support Kahanist ideas such as relocating the arabs who currently occupy Israel. But I had no illusion that Moshe would rise to the level of a Chaim or any other open Kahanist leader. I am looking toward a slow evolution of politics in Israel instead of an immediate revolution...

Please don't be so argumentative if I don't quite see things the way you do. It would be best if you presented your opinion and allowed others to digest it...

This very capitulationist.

I very much liked Moshe Feiglin, but if he views bibi as an acceptable leader and the best one to lead Israel, he has become too mamlachti to have any impact and is simply unfit to lead.  How can one not complain?   Up until this point feiglin was one of the only ones who was against oslo as a principle and dedicated to stopping it, even from within the system as he was trying to do.  Now with comments he has made recently, he has simply become another enabler of the regime who pretends that bibi is rightwing.  Its like he has completely transformed.  How can anyone be ok with this?

[muman613]

This very capitulationist.

I very much liked Moshe Feiglin, but if he views bibi as an acceptable leader and the best one to lead Israel, he has become too mamlachti to have any impact and is simply unfit to lead.  How can one not complain?   Up until this point feiglin was one of the only ones who was against oslo as a principle and dedicated to stopping it, even from within the system as he was trying to do.  Now with comments he has made recently, he has simply become another enabler of the regime who pretends that bibi is rightwing.  Its like he has completely transformed.  How can anyone be ok with this?

I don't quite understand how you can say what I said was 'capitulationist'? What am I surrendering?

My point is that we must have someone who represents us. Who is that at this time?

My other point is that by always pointing out the negative instead of strengthening the positive we may be left with nobody.

Is it realistic to dream that we will wake up and Chaim will be PM of Israel? Is it any more realistic to believe that the 3rd Temple will come down from Heaven? Something MUST be done within the framework of the current system of government in Israel.

I just want to know what the 'big view' of this is...