Author Topic: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock  (Read 13793 times)

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Offline mord

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Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« on: June 18, 2007, 06:41:10 AM »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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newman

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 06:47:43 AM »
A very noble gesture to be sure, but Israel will get NO thanks and NO grattitude from those people. You might save a baby crocodile but it's parents will still see you as lunch.

Offline mord

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 06:50:03 AM »
Your right,but she's a little girl
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 07:16:36 AM »
I will not let any physician attend me who has not taken the Oath of Hippocrates.

Up until about twenty years ago, it was the standard oath of all medical physicians in the world, dating back to ancient Greece, where Hippocrates, whom we call "The Father of Modern Medicine", enforced the Oath upon all of his disciples who desired to practice the Art of Medicine.

With the acceptance of legalized abortion, society has become so corrupted that American Medical Schools will not allow a student to graduate unless they take a course on how to abort babies.

The A.M.A. no longer endorses the ancient solemn Oath of Hippocrates, written 400 B.C.E, which reads as follows:

-I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.

-I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.

-I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel;

-and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion.

-With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.

-I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work.

-Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.

-Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.

-While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times!

-But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

-Translated by Francis Adams

A physician who refuses to aid a young child, or anyone of whatever age or sex or whatever ethnicity, aids in torture or in an execution, performs abortions, administers euthanasia, has sex with patients, or engages in any immorality, has always been considered a fraud by the medical profession and barred from the profession.

Still approve of an IDF doctor refusing to aid a little Arab girl?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Offline mord

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 07:27:23 AM »
Quote
Still approve of an IDF doctor refusing to aid a little Arab girl?
  Did i say i did'nt
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2007, 07:57:14 AM »
Mord:  " Did i say i did'nt?"

No.

But others here seem unfamiliar with the attributes expected of one practicing the Medical Arts.

And that in itself, is one more contributing factor to a decadent and corrupt society on the decline.

We can not save Western Civilization unless we are knowledgeable as to what it actually is, and always has been.

Deporting those unfit to live here is meaningless, if we don't first know the very standards for which we are struggling, and demand their reimplementation.


Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 08:23:19 AM »
what is a pessary?
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline mord

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 08:29:04 AM »
what is a pessary?
A thing thats used to support parts of internal organs usually on women
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Masha

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 08:58:19 AM »
I will not let any physician attend me who has not taken the Oath of Hippocrates.

Up until about twenty years ago, it was the standard oath of all medical physicians in the world, dating back to ancient Greece, where Hippocrates, whom we call "The Father of Modern Medicine", enforced the Oath upon all of his disciples who desired to practice the Art of Medicine.

With the acceptance of legalized abortion, society has become so corrupted that American Medical Schools will not allow a student to graduate unless they take a course on how to abort babies.

The A.M.A. no longer endorses the ancient solemn Oath of Hippocrates, written 400 B.C.E, which reads as follows:

-I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.

-I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.

-I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel;

-and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion.

-With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.

-I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work.

-Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.

-Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.

-While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times!

-But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

-Translated by Francis Adams

A physician who refuses to aid a young child, or anyone of whatever age or sex or whatever ethnicity, aids in torture or in an execution, performs abortions, administers euthanasia, has sex with patients, or engages in any immorality, has always been considered a fraud by the medical profession and barred from the profession.

Still approve of an IDF doctor refusing to aid a little Arab girl?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


This is all very good, but I doubt that the Hippocratic Oath was originally intended to have a universal meaning. The ancient Greeks did have a nationalist consciousness (although not in the modern meaning of this word). I would imagine that the unstated assumption of this oath is its applicability to a specific community, not the world at large.

However this might be, if I were an Israeli doctor or hospital, I would abstain from all help to the Palestinian community because it is a community of sworn enemies to all Jews. I would put aside all vague do-good, bleeding-heart humanitarian principles in this particular situation, because what is at stake here is the survival of the Jewish people, and to have a will to survive, we must treat our enemies as enemies. I'm not saying that a doctor should not help a foreigner in general. Of course not. Only as applies in this specific case. Color me uncharitable. I confess, I am not a universal humanitarian.

newman

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2007, 09:08:57 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2007, 09:13:51 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

That is correct, a doctor is required to by Halacha to let such a person die, the exception being if they have information you need or some other similiar concern.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

newman

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2007, 09:18:31 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

That is correct, a doctor is required to by Halacha to let such a person die, the exception being if they have information you need or some other similiar concern.

Common sense!

Only a secular cement head would be stupid enough to save someone who is trying to kill them.

Offline Masha

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 09:18:52 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.

These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):

1) Do not aid the enemy.

2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 09:23:53 AM by Masha »

Offline Masha

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2007, 09:21:07 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

That is correct, a doctor is required to by Halacha to let such a person die, the exception being if they have information you need or some other similiar concern.

As I was typing, you already provided the answer - thank you. This makes perfect sense. As always, the Talmud sages are, how should we say it, very sagacious.  :)

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2007, 09:45:39 AM »
The Gemara in Megillah explains yes, we do celebrate at the downfall of national enemies, not personal enemies.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Masha

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2007, 10:00:47 AM »
The Gemara in Megillah explains yes, we do celebrate at the downfall of national enemies, not personal enemies.

Yes, I was thinking of national enemies. Purim would probably an example of such a celebration.

(Actually, when I think about it, I cannot think of any people whom I consider "personal enemies." Some people that I dislike, yes. But I wouldn't qualify them as enemies).

Offline dawntreader

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2007, 10:02:48 AM »
Quote
From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.

These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):

1) Do not aid the enemy.

2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.

I'm sorry...but children are not "the enemy". Even Muslim children. They are being brought up in a culture of lies. Oh that someone would rescue and enlighten them!

I find it a genuine act of mercy and kindness that an Israeli doctor would help an Arab little girl. I would not give a flying flip what the Gemarah had to say on the matter. Sometimes I genuinely believe HaShem might be shocked and ashamed that the Rabbanim who profess to speak for Him, interpreting and analyzing everything down to the last detail would go so far outside the intent of His real will and approve of standing idly by while someone lies hurt and wounded...someone who is innocent.

Just because someone is born into "The Enemy" and into a false faith, does not make that person, especially a child who doesn't know any better, "Guilty."
Victory is a thing of the will. -General Ferdinand Foch

Our peace must be a peace of victors, not of the vanquished.
- General Ferdinand Foch

We have met the enemy and they are ours.
- Oliver Hazard Perry

Offline Masha

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2007, 10:11:18 AM »
Quote
From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.

These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):

1) Do not aid the enemy.

2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.

I'm sorry...but children are not "the enemy". Even Muslim children. They are being brought up in a culture of lies. Oh that someone would rescue and enlighten them!

I find it a genuine act of mercy and kindness that an Israeli doctor would help an Arab little girl. I would not give a flying flip what the Gemarah had to say on the matter. Sometimes I genuinely believe HaShem might be shocked and ashamed that the Rabbanim who profess to speak for Him, interpreting and analyzing everything down to the last detail would go so far outside the intent of His real will and approve of standing idly by while someone lies hurt and wounded...someone who is innocent.

Just because someone is born into "The Enemy" and into a false faith, does not make that person, especially a child who doesn't know any better, "Guilty."

Let us just agree to disagree. This girl is a future jihadi womb. If the situation were different - sure, show some humanity. But the situation is extreme, IMHO. We have a demographic bomb on our hands in addition to all real bombs.

newman

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2007, 10:12:27 AM »


I'm sorry...but children are not "the enemy". Even Muslim children. They are being brought up in a culture of lies. Oh that someone would rescue and enlighten them!

I find it a genuine act of mercy and kindness that an Israeli doctor would help an Arab little girl. I would not give a flying flip what the Gemarah had to say on the matter. Sometimes I genuinely believe HaShem might be shocked and ashamed that the Rabbanim who profess to speak for Him, interpreting and analyzing everything down to the last detail would go so far outside the intent of His real will and approve of standing idly by while someone lies hurt and wounded...someone who is innocent.

Just because someone is born into "The Enemy" and into a false faith, does not make that person, especially a child who doesn't know any better, "Guilty."
[/quote]

I've got a newsflash for you.

Sand apettes as young as 10 are being recruited as suicide bombers. I'm no Torah schollar, but someone packing C4, rusty nails and rat poison more than quallifies as an enemy.

Offline dawntreader

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2007, 10:21:05 AM »
Sure, if you see a kid with a homicide bomber belt on, shoot and kill.

I agree with that.

But someone who is unarmed? And a kid?

I realize that even kids are being recruited as Suicide(homicide) bombers. It's sick and twisted.

Would it make a difference in the life of that Muslim girl that a Jewish doctor saved her life? It just might.

(I'm an Israeli, and I know a lot of what goes on in Israel though I live in the American South West right now. Thanks for the newsflash though!)    ;)
Victory is a thing of the will. -General Ferdinand Foch

Our peace must be a peace of victors, not of the vanquished.
- General Ferdinand Foch

We have met the enemy and they are ours.
- Oliver Hazard Perry

Offline Masha

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2007, 11:00:55 AM »
Sure, if you see a kid with a homicide bomber belt on, shoot and kill.

I agree with that.

But someone who is unarmed? And a kid?

I realize that even kids are being recruited as Suicide(homicide) bombers. It's sick and twisted.

Would it make a difference in the life of that Muslim girl that a Jewish doctor saved her life? It just might.

(I'm an Israeli, and I know a lot of what goes on in Israel though I live in the American South West right now. Thanks for the newsflash though!)    ;)

I think we have very different opinions on the meaning of a "national enemy." I believe that a Biblical understanding of a national enemy is not that of a lawful combatant in an identifiable uniform that can be found on a field of battle. Remember the Amalek? It is a good example. I think that it is very regrettable, but also symptomatic, that as an Israeli child you were taught in school secular humanist ethics. I think that Israel would be in better shape right now if the kids were taught Jewish ethics instead. I am not trying to pick a fight with you or point fingers. This is simply an expression of my opinion. Your opinion is different. But note that the Talmudic scholars (as has been confirmed on this thread) do not agree with you.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2007, 11:35:58 AM »
Any doctor who treats a muslim is a traitor. Remember Baruch Goldstein, he was famous for refusing to treat muslims and I am sure he was right.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2007, 11:43:12 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

How about this - an enemy must not live on the territory of your state, period.
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Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2007, 11:47:43 AM »
You know why they call Israel an apartheid state?

Because the dumb leftists first ask Arabs to stay in Israel and then fight them.

This is a pure masochism!
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newman

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Re: Israeli military Dr. save Arab girl hit by arab rock
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2007, 11:49:25 AM »
I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.

How about this - an enemy must not live on the territory of your state, period.

Kahanists have been saying that all along. If the traitors and kapos in the Israeli gov't could only get that into heads.