Gender separation is sexist? The news media and the Erev Rav are the sexists!

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

LOL watch this video including the guy in his car that gets interviewed where he "explains" why little girls are spit at.   To deny this is happening is really delusional, even if the media rhetoric is insane.   Go ahead and fast forward to 2:39 and listen to what he says.

בס''ד

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Channel 2 Judenrat found a Charedi Jew who says stupid things. They use his comments to smear religious Jews and you are outraged at the Charedim instead of the media. In other words, you fell for this. This is the oldest trick in the world.

[cjd]

Whenever there is a massive organized media campaign in regard to religious faith or almost any other issue, it should be obvious what the objective is. I can't believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that the media is worried about the "rights" of Jewish girls. These Jewish girls should fear the media a million times more than the Charedim. And so should any Jew with an ounce of sanity.

In this case it seemed to be one of the parents making the video not the media... I am sure most of our members know what the media in Israel is capable of... In my opinion the situation is one that should not be allowed to continue... Heckling little children coming out of school is a no win situation... Little children grow up to be adults and I am sure that they will remember the treatment they received from some of the Charedim.

[Nekama]

As representatives of Hakadosh Barachu, we will be held to the highest of standards by our enemies.  Unfortunately, one rotten apple can spoil the barrel.  I have no sympathies for the self-hating jewish media in Israel and pray for their destruction.  My main concern here is that we do everything possible to avoid desecrating Hashem's name.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

KWRBT and others, I think it is obvious that if the NWO is hyping an "incident" that it is likely to be either a complete lie or grossly exaggerated. I already used the example that the NWO is also constantly telling us that "fanatical settlers" are harassing and tormenting Arabs. Is that true? Should we believe that innocent Arabs are being picked on by "radical" Jews?

בס''ד

Exactly! You get it. You explained it better than me.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

בס''ד

Again the issue is not whether one Charedi spit at someone. The issue is that you are helping the media campaign to discredit Judaism. Instead of condemning the media, you are condemning the Charedim. You are outraged over a Charedi Jew spitting at someone or other (mostly exaggerated) incidents. But you are not outraged over the media manipulating this issue to destroy the soul of the Jewish people. The media is using you.

You are misrepresenting me and spreading evil slander about me.  I am condemning the media.  did you even read what I wrote?   I said the media can go to hell with the sikrikim.

On facebook I argued with some lady there for hours defending haredim against her attacks because she was trying to pin all of this on all haredim.   And then you say this to me?

You unfortunately fail to recognize the seeds of our destruction which are planted right in bet Shemesh.   It is a small faction of haredim going to war against the national religious.     So you are going to be part of the "silent majority" that allows it to fester for fear of what the goyim will say, or fear of what the media nazis will say?  For shame!

And again, you are minimizing the incidents.   On a daily basis young girls were harrassed on their way home from school by a faction of sikrikim.   There is really nothing to minimize about that.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Where is Chaim slandering you dude? You assumed that he was talking about you even though he was very general and named nobody. You took it to be a personal attack and confronted him.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

KWRBT and others, I think it is obvious that if the NWO is hyping an "incident" that it is likely to be either a complete lie or grossly exaggerated.  

How many times have we been through this?

No, it is not a fabrication. Just because evil people are reporting it and trying to twist it to their ends does not make it untrue if something really happened.  In this case, these things really did happen.  The little girls from Orot school are harrassed on a regular basis.  You can see some people in the video that I just posted who try to justify what is being done to the girls.     So it is clear that some people, however small in number they may be, are actively doing it.  


What is fabricated by the media is that this is a women's rights story or that this is a big danger to other Israeli cities about to engulf them like a big scary monster.  It's not about women's rights at all!  The media lies.    It's about protecting people from harrassment.


It is truly delusional to think that just because the media picked up on something, it therefore must be a lie.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

בס''ד

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Channel 2 Judenrat found a Charedi Jew who says stupid things. They use his comments to smear religious Jews and you are outraged at the Charedim instead of the media. In other words, you fell for this. This is the oldest trick in the world.

How is it a smear of haredi Jews?  That guy, and his friends who think like him are involved in harrassing little school girls.   And they think these girls deserve it because they are dati leumi, rather than haredi.    If you defend that, you have a really warped moral compass.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Where is Chaim slandering you dude? You assumed that he was talking about you even though he was very general and named nobody. You took it to be a personal attack and confronted him.

"you are helping the media campaign to discredit Judaism. Instead of condemning the media, you are condemning the Charedim."

False and evil talk.  I am not condemning charedim.  And I am not helping any media campaign.

"you are not outraged over the media manipulating this issue to destroy the soul of the Jewish people. "

More false and evil accusations.



What exactly are you reading that you didn't catch that?

[muman613]

Just to add my 2 cent opinion, I think my real concern is what is the motivation of the most fringe elements asserting these new rules.  What is their Mesorah (i.e., source in Jewish law)?  If there is a genuine Mesorah then so be it.  If this is just a frenzy to see who can be "frumer" (more religious) then the next (like the microbes in water which have absolutely no basis in Halachah), then this is Taliban like behavior.  If these elements are so concerned, how far away are we from Nazirs?  I seem to recall that during the time of the Beit Hamikdash, after the ceremony of the Azazzel where the red string turned white, men and women would meet and there would be many engagements (Keddushin and not Nissuin) resulting from such meetings.  If the rules being implemented now were in place then, there would have been a Shidduch crises.

I suspect you are referring to the celebration known as Tu B'av, the 15th of Av.... Which is a celebration:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/53680/jewish/15th-of-Av.htm

The 15th of Av is undoubtedly the most mysterious day of the Jewish calendar. A search of the Shulchan Aruch (“Code of Jewish Law”) reveals no observances or customs for this date, except for the instruction that the tachanun (confession of sins) and similar portions should be omitted from the daily prayers (as is the case with all festive dates), and that beginning on the 15th of Av one should increase one’s study of Torah, since at this time of the year the nights begin to grow longer, and “the night was created for study.” And the Talmud tells us that many years ago the “daughters of Jerusalem would go dance in the vineyards” on the 15th of Av, and “whoever did not have a wife would go there” to find himself a bride.

And this is the day which the Talmud considers the greatest festival of the year, with Yom Kippur (!) a close second!

Indeed, the 15th of Av cannot but be a mystery. As the “full moon” of the tragic month of Av, it is the festival of the Future Redemption, and thus a day whose essence, by definition, is unknowable to our unredeemed selves.

Yet also the unknowable is ours to seek and explore, as we shall in the essays, based on the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s writings and talks, presented here.

See also : http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/53684/jewish/The-Dancing-Maidens-of-Jerusalem.htm

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

OK let me use an example from outside of Israel. Does Westboro Baptist Church (Fred Phelps' sick cult) actually exist? Yes. Do they actually protest military funerals and praise terrorists? Yes. Is what they do commonplace? Absolutely not. It is one tiny cult made up of the inbred members of it's sick leader's family. The US branch of the NWO media loves to saturate us with stories of WBC and paints them as representative of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. Whenever they cover WBC they always frame them as being "extremist Christians" or "fundamentalists" or "fanatical evangelicals". Are they? More than 999 out of a thousand devout evangelicals have and want absolutely nothing to do with any of what WBC stands for, and yet the petromedia is constantly portraying them as a major part of American conservative Christianity.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Chaim, honestly I thought you would have said and perhaps made a video showing the true side of Torah-Judaism and that instead of rewarding, you would effectively deal with these types of people the proper Jewish way. It would definitely even alleviate the tensions that some mistakenly think of the Torah and Judaism.  
  Some people are concerned that as Torah and the religious spread their will be a Taliban like culture. Instead of saying this is no big deal, the best thing would be to condemn them and assure Israel's future under the Torah-Religious community would combat all forms of injustices. 

[muman613]

"you are helping the media campaign to discredit Judaism. Instead of condemning the media, you are condemning the Charedim."

False and evil talk.  I am not condemning charedim.  And I am not helping any media campaign.

"you are not outraged over the media manipulating this issue to destroy the soul of the Jewish people. "

More false and evil accusations.



What exactly are you reading that you didn't catch that?

KWRBT,

I think you are getting too personally involved in this issue. Chaim has a point... You have a point. We need to work together to gain better understanding. I don't think Chaim was intentionally referring to you...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

OK let me use an example from outside of Israel. Does Westboro Baptist Church (Fred Phelps' sick cult) actually exist? Yes. Do they actually protest military funerals and praise terrorists? Yes. Is what they do commonplace? Absolutely not. It is one tiny cult made up of the inbred members of it's sick leader's family. The US branch of the NWO media loves to saturate us with stories of WBC and paints them as representative of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. Whenever they cover WBC they always frame them as being "extremist Christians" or "fundamentalists" or "fanatical evangelicals". Are they? More than 999 out of a thousand devout evangelicals have and want absolutely nothing to do with any of what WBC stands for, and yet the petromedia is constantly portraying them as a major part of American conservative Christianity.

There is a school called Orot where the little girls are harrassed on a regular basis.  It's a real problem, and what is being done to stop it?   Denying it happens or encouraging the offenders, does not solve the problem.  That does not stop it, that makes it worse.     The criminals doing the spitting and cursing would fit in well with westboro baptist church.     I never EVER said that the criminals doing this are representative of charedim, in fact I stressed the opposite.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

KWRBT,

I think you are getting too personally involved in this issue. Chaim has a point... You have a point. We need to work together to gain better understanding. I don't think Chaim was intentionally referring to you...

Oh, so the accusations against me which I quoted were not personal?   Only my response was personal?   How typical.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

This was Chaim's first post here today:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58997.msg530905.html#msg530905

As you can see here he is being exceptionally general and referring to everybody.

Then you took it personally and confronted Chaim:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58997.msg530910.html#msg530910

Right about now I'm really disappointed in you.

[muman613]

There is a school called Orot where the little girls are harrassed on a regular basis.  It's a real problem, and what is being done to stop it?   Denying it happens or encouraging the offenders, does not solve the problem.  That does not stop it, that makes it worse.     The criminals doing the spitting and cursing would fit in well with westboro baptist church.     I never EVER said that the criminals doing this are representative of charedim, in fact I stressed the opposite.

You are correct it is wrong for them to do this.... But the issue is that the media has latched onto this as a wedge issue... Who do we support more? Jews who have a wrong understanding, or the media which is trying to pull the rug out from under Judaism? I will fight against the media and work to educate those who believe incorrectly....

Please don't let this issue divide us so badly...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

You are correct it is wrong for them to do this.... But the issue is that the media has latched onto this as a wedge issue... Who do we support more? Jews who have a wrong understanding, or the media which is trying to pull the rug out from under Judaism? I will fight against the media and work to educate those who believe incorrectly....

Please don't let this issue divide us so badly...

 Ummm BOTH!  (meaning fight against not support).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This was Chaim's first post here today:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58997.msg530905.html#msg530905

As you can see here he is being exceptionally general and referring to everybody.

Then you took it personally and confronted Chaim:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58997.msg530910.html#msg530910

Right about now I'm really disappointed in you.

Confronted Chaim, by asking him a question?   Why am I not allowed to ask Chaim a direct question on the forum?  This is news to me.

I asked him directly to address a certain matter and for his opinion.   That is not a "confrontation"
Saying that I smear charedim or that I help the media war is certainly confrontational, not to mention inaccurate.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There is a school called Orot where the little girls are harrassed on a regular basis.  It's a real problem, and what is being done to stop it?   Denying it happens or encouraging the offenders, does not solve the problem.  That does not stop it, that makes it worse.     The criminals doing the spitting and cursing would fit in well with westboro baptist church.     I never EVER said that the criminals doing this are representative of charedim, in fact I stressed the opposite.

I'm not sure what you expect to be done about it. People have tried to stop the WBC cult in America too and unfortunately they have the legal "right" to do what they do. I assume that the same here applies to this tiny fraction of belligerent Charedim. Do American Christians really need to invest effort into fighting WBC and giving them any more publicity? Is it not obvious that they are a miniscule number of mental patients that the G-d-hating media is attempting to associate all Christians with?

PS you asked Chaim if he was talking to you in a testy manner. You had no reason to do that. He was being very nonspecific.

[muman613]

 Ummm BOTH!  (meaning fight against not support).

Is there no room for Ahavat Yisroel... Even though they have done wrong they are still Jews who claim to want to uphold the Torah. I share more in common with them than the leftist anti-religious media which is using this issue... I will push away with my left hand, and pull close with my right...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Is there no room for Ahavat Yisroel... Even though they have done wrong they are still Jews who claim to want to uphold the Torah. I share more in common with them than the leftist anti-religious media which is using this issue... I will push away with my left hand, and pull close with my right...

You share in common with those who spit on dati school children, gee that makes a lot of sense.

Or are you again obfuscating the issue by speaking about haredim in general, even though it seems like you are speaking about a small group of criminals in bet shemesh who have done some very bad things?     Let's start having some ahavat yisrael by not mixing up the issues and by not labelling haredim with what some thugs have done in bet shemesh.  How's that for starters.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I'm not sure what you expect to be done about it. People have tried to stop the WBC cult in America too and unfortunately they have the legal "right" to do what they do. I assume that the same here applies to this tiny fraction of belligerent Charedim. Do American Christians really need to invest effort into fighting WBC and giving them any more publicity? Is it not obvious that they are a miniscule number of mental patients that the G-d-hating media is attempting to associate all Christians with?

PS you asked Chaim if he was talking to you in a testy manner. You had no reason to do that. He was being very nonspecific.

In a testy manner?   He made a general statement about "people in the thread" in general, so I simply asked if he's referring to me, and I really hoped he wasn't because I never intended to do what he was describing.   That's why I wanted to ask that question because God forbid I would do the things he was saying people are doing in this thread (or to be accused of that).  Certainly not a confrontation to ask if he is referring to things I'm saying.

[muman613]

You share in common with those who spit on dati school children, gee that makes a lot of sense.

Or are you again obfuscating the issue by speaking about haredim in general, even though it seems like you are speaking about a small group of criminals in bet shemesh who have done some very bad things?     Let's start having some ahavat yisrael by not mixing up the issues and by not labelling haredim with what some thugs have done in bet shemesh.  How's that for starters.

Listen... While the original incident originally involved these 'extremists' the issue has become a generic one of Jewish values versus modern 'values'.... Eventually we will have to take sides. I am with Chaim on this that while we must distance ourselves from those who perpetrated this event, we must clearly say that the Torah is our rock...

Let me ask you this KWRBT.... If you had your way here how would you handle this issue? I am open to listening to solutions to this conflict...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim never said he sided with spitting on girls. You are imagining that completely. As it stands I don't know exactly what happened (in the original incident) and my guess is that neither do you. I find it very hard to believe that there is an organized group of religious Jews that sets out to spit on girls. Can you show me an impartial and real news source (meaning not Whoretz or Ynet or any international news report) that documents what exactly took place?