Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Fitting the 6 days of Creation into current scientific theory
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: edu on February 13, 2012, 01:45:32 PM ---Quote from Kahane-Was-Right BTNot everything that goes under the name of science has equal weight or credibility. Some scientific facts are strongly supported, while others are educated guesses that can be easily overturned.
But in any case, a major scientist who is an expert in this field has contacted me and said
He also contends that R. Slifkin is familiar with the rebuttals that can be made against his viewpoint, but does not present them. I will withhold naming the scientist until, I actually get his response, (without vowing).
--- End quote ---
If you are talking about R I. Betech, he has proven himself incompetent and misleading on Rabbi Slifkin's blog. I also seriously challenge the title of "major scientist" if you are using it on whom I suspect. (Of course I could be wrong but I'm just guessing because betech has made a personal obsession out of attacking r Slifkin and he fancies himself an expert).
I have found that Rabbi Slifkin is pretty honest and open minded and does present contrary views. In fact he admits that he is not 100% clear or convinced on the mechanism by which evolution took place, however the facts point one unmistakably to the fact that it did take place. Nonetheless he is not trying to convince a single person to believe evolution took place or didn't. Anyone who reads his work and is not trying to distort his views for the sake of ridicule and attacking him, knows that. His work is intended for those educated Jews who already accept the facts of evolution but also seek a Torah approach that can jive with that. His work is for them, not for someone who doubts the most basic tenets of scientific study and who calls things "just theory" as a way to discredit what is obviously true. Such people can keep on keepin on. And thus, saying its "his viewpoint" or talking about "rebuttals" completely misses the point. He is targeting a readership which accepts certain premises already based on their own knowledge and thought process and proceeding from there. He doesn't care if someone does not believe evolution of species happened, even if he personally thinks they are wrong, he would wish them well and has no interest convincing them.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on February 13, 2012, 04:31:36 PM ---
Those who place faith in science are just as much Idolators as those who place their faith in stone and wood...
--- End quote ---
I don't see anyone in this thread who has put "faith in science" but thanks for playing.
We have faith in God only. Simultaneously, we accept the true and evidence which points us to the truth because that is what we are limited to with our limited senses. We have no reason to deny what appears factual.
Oh and science says that living tissues need oxygen to continue living and meeting energy needs, and there is no reason to believe this idea will change in 20 years or ever. Actually, we have every reason to believe that will not change.
And dinosaur fossils will still be dinosaur fossils 20 years from now.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on February 14, 2012, 11:36:10 PM ---I don't see how modern "scientific" theory can be reconciled with the Creation account in Genesis regardless of how you justify the billions of years gap because plants were created before the sun, moon and stars, and modern scientists claim the heavenly bodies were around before plants. However, there's no telling how many years the earth was in its chaotic form (covered in water and darkness) before the time that G-d created light. If you were going to put the billions of years in, I'd say they would fit in most easily before the creation of light.
That being said, one book written by a Jewish scientist that tries to reconcile the 2 accounts is "Genesis and the Big Bang" by Gerald Schroeder
--- End quote ---
True, very good points. Let's also not forget that some "days" happened before the sun was created, as I believe the Rambam points out in his discussion of why days are not considered days.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Btw I was intrigued by the author's quote you posted, edu (from the supposed scientist).
When he says that "there is nothing substantive to Rav Slifkin's criticism" - I'm just wondering, his criticism of what?
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on February 15, 2012, 02:46:04 AM ---I don't see anyone in this thread who has put "faith in science" but thanks for playing.
We have faith in G-d only. Simultaneously, we accept the true and evidence which points us to the truth because that is what we are limited to with our limited senses. We have no reason to deny what appears factual.
Oh and science says that living tissues need oxygen to continue living and meeting energy needs, and there is no reason to believe this idea will change in 20 years or ever. Actually, we have every reason to believe that will not change.
And dinosaur fossils will still be dinosaur fossils 20 years from now.
--- End quote ---
It is good to know that you do not put your faith in science because many people do. You may deny it but it is true. Sometimes it seems you over react when I point out that science is not carved in stone, and it has been used for political and often times anti ethical goals.
One must never believe that the scientist has the answer to every problem. One thing I do wish is that some day these scientists will figure out a cure for the common cold, because that one has been looked forward to for many generations.
And your example about oxygen is not something we need science to prove.
Regarding dinosaur fossils... There is no doubt that there will be dinosaur fossils 20 years from now, but I have every reason to believe that those same fossils will now be classified differently and the date is was supposed to have lived will have changed. What I was taught about dinosaurs when I was a kid {about 20+ years ago} has been invalidated. Many of those dinosaurs are now thought to have looked different, or not have existed at all.
I did quite well at many physical sciences including Chemistry and Physics. I took advanced classes in these topics in High School and I attended a very good Computer Science school in New York. I understand science and I also know its limitations. This is why I advise to be careful about placing trust in science.
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