Beware Jews and Vegans, Starbacks is serving bugs with its coffee

[Zelhar]

In a rather tasteless choice IMO, they use a food dye which is made out of crushed beetles in their "Strawberries & Creme Frappuccino". I suppose the red dye is supposed to replace or enhance the strawberry appeal of the beverage.

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/food/11597241-423/beetle-coloring-in-starbucks-strawberries-creme-frappuccinos-bugs-vegans.html

When Starbucks changed its Strawberries & Creme Frappuccino mix, it made sure the new ingredients were dairy-free. But no one said anything about being bug-free.

Turns out the strawberry sauce used in the coffee chain’s Frappuccinos contains cochineal extract — made from the bodies of ground-up cochineal beetles.

Starbucks made the switch in January, when it aggressively moved away from artificial ingredients.

An anonymous vegan barista who works for Starbucks sent a picture of the sauce’s ingredient list to a vegetarian blog called

www.ThisDishIsVegetarian.com , which recently posted it along with a warning that Strawberry Frappuccino is no longer vegan.
The revelation sparked some criticism, even though, gross as putting crushed bugs in a drink might sound, it’s a common, government-approved food coloring used widely throughout the food industry. It’s in everything from some Yoplait yogurts to three Kellogg’s Pop-Tarts flavors.

Daelyn Fortney, co-founder of ThisDishIsVegetarian.com, wants Starbucks to go back to using a vegan coloring like red beet, black carrots or purple sweet potatoes.

“This was known as a drink that vegans can safely consume,” Fortney says of the Strawberries & Creme Frappuccino. “We’re not trying to cause any problems. Our point is, vegans are drinking this, and it’s not vegan.”

Starbucks spokesman Jim Olson confirms “the strawberry base for our Strawberries & Creme Frappuccino does contain cochineal extract, a common natural dye that is used in the food industry, and it helps us move away from artificial ingredients.”

The base also is used in Starbucks’ strawberry smoothies, according to Olson, and the insect-derived extract is in some other foods and drinks the chain sells, including its red velvet whoopie pies.

Three years ago, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration said food and cosmetic products must declare on their labels that they contain cochineal extract or another bug-derived coloring called carmine. The rule went into effect in early 2011. Until then, the insect additives often were listed as “artificial colors” or “color added.”

Michael Jacobson, executive director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, an activist group that pushed the FDA for the new labeling requirements, praises Starbucks for moving away from artificial ingredients. But, noting that some people have allergic reactions to insects, Jacobson has a suggestion for Starbucks: “Strawberry Frapuccino should be colored with strawberries.”

[Rubystars]

I don't really find cochineal extract to be gross. I think it's used to color cheddar cheese. Of course it's not kosher or vegan though. Starbucks is trying to move to more natural, healthful ingredients and I think this is a good thing. If Jews on this board are concerened about cochineal extract, then they should avoid most red or orange colored foods until they know whether it contains it.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

Jews shouldn't touch a Starbucks unless it's kosher or if you check the coffe before hand

[muman613]

I don't really find cochineal extract to be gross. I think it's used to color cheddar cheese. Of course it's not kosher or vegan though. Starbucks is trying to move to more natural, healthful ingredients and I think this is a good thing. If Jews on this board are concerened about cochineal extract, then they should avoid most red or orange colored foods until they know whether it contains it.

The issue is that Jews are commanded not to eat insects, or any parts of insects...

[muman613]

http://www.kosherquest.org/book.php?id=INSECTS_IN_FOOD.htm

IS IT KOSHER?
A FEW WORDS ABOUT INSECTS IN YOUR FOOD

Although eating insects is strictly forbidden by the Torah, we find this concern often overlooked. Following is an example of some products that may contain bugs or worms.

It is important to realize that we are prohibited from the Torah (Vayikra XI) to eat Sheratzim. This issue includes many types of insects. Therefore, a bowl of salad which may look kosher, could have more non-kosher ingredients (bugs) and prohibitions than a cheeseburger at a local fast food restaurant. Although Reb Moshe Feinstein zt"l states that it is not mandatory at this time to check vegetables for bugs, he was refering to a time when DDT (a strong pesticide) was widely used on most crops. This pesticide, when used, served to temporarily eliminate the vast majority of insects from vegetables. Unfortunately, due to various agricultural modifications, the insects are back! In the United States, the insecticide DDT is now officially and legally outlawed. Now, often over half a dozen species can be found on one head of lettuce. Usually, something as small as an insect would be "batel" (anulled) in a large volume of permissible food. In the case of insects, however, this is not the case. The reason is that we have a rule which states that a complete creature cannot become nullified. Therefore, a worm on the bottom of a tequilla bottle does not become nullified by the liquid. However, if a person cooked soup and found a fly floating in it later, the fly should be removed and the soup will now be permissible. If there were three or more insects in the food, we have to assume that it was infested with insects and must be sifted, strained etc. If there are only parts of insects, they are considered nullified in sixty. However, whenever possible, a person must try to remove the insect parts as well. This is the reason why in Israel many people who have found insecdt parts in their flour always sift it. In most countries, flour is pre-sifted. Microscopic insect parts do not concern us halachically. The following FDA list shows the maximum givernment tolerance when it comes to insects found in food, and illustrates clearly how we often are not aware of what we are eating. There is a company in Israel that grows their produce in sand, which has proved effective in avoiding insect infestation even in leafy vegetable. In the U.S., pre-checked lettuce, cabbage etc. are being marketed under a reliable hecher. The chart on page 195 will explain how to check for bugs in most cases.

[Rubystars]

The issue is that Jews are commanded not to eat insects, or any parts of insects...

I understand that part. I'm saying if you're worried about it then don't eat red or orange foods with unknown kosher status then be surprised that it has bugs in it.

[Zelhar]

I don't really find cochineal extract to be gross. I think it's used to color cheddar cheese. Of course it's not kosher or vegan though. Starbucks is trying to move to more natural, healthful ingredients and I think this is a good thing. If Jews on this board are concerened about cochineal extract, then they should avoid most red or orange colored foods until they know whether it contains it.

On the gross and vegan scale it bothers me far less then products made out of more sentient beings like gelatin from pigs and cattle bones. But still I think that for ANY food product that uses animal components it must be visibly what type of animal was killed in the preparation process.

[Zelhar]

Jews shouldn't touch a Starbucks unless it's kosher or if you check the coffe before hand

Seems like any type of processed food should be questionable. I remembers some years ago it turned out McDonald's used animal fat in the frying oil for their french fries. They didn't bother tell people about it until it came out.

[Rubystars]

Seems like any type of processed food should be questionable. I remembers some years ago it turned out McDonald's used animal fat in the frying oil for their french fries. They didn't bother tell people about it until it came out.

I remember that Hindus were upset that beef tallow was used in the french fries they had been ordering but if they were so religiously opposed to beef consumption they probably shouldn't have been eating at McDonalds to begin with.

Most of the food supply is made with the general public in mind, not people with special dietary restrictions. Beef made the fries taste better and sell better, and was not in itself a toxic or harmful substance.

In packaged foods I think labels need to make these things clear, but in fast food like Starbucks or McDonalds, you should just assume that it's not going to meet your dietary restrictions.

On the gross and vegan scale it bothers me far less then products made out of more sentient beings like gelatin from pigs and cattle bones. But still I think that for ANY food product that uses animal components it must be visibly what type of animal was killed in the preparation process.

Well you know canned vegetables and peanut butter often have a small amount of insects in them too although I understand avoiding them as much as possible.

[Zelhar]

I remember that Hindus were upset that beef tallow was used in the french fries they had been ordering but if they were so religiously opposed to beef consumption they probably shouldn't have been eating at McDonalds to begin with.

Most of the food supply is made with the general public in mind, not people with special dietary restrictions. Beef made the fries taste better and sell better, and was not in itself a toxic or harmful substance.

In packaged foods I think labels need to make these things clear, but in fast food like Starbucks or McDonalds, you should just assume that it's not going to meet your dietary restrictions.

I think what McDonalds had done was misleading and perhaps Starbucks too except in their case it came out early. Especially in Markets like India where they should be well aware many there wouldn't eat cow.

Well you know canned vegetables and peanut butter often have a small amount of insects in them too although I understand avoiding them as much as possible.

I know there might be but that would count as an accident. I think even the strict kosher laws permits and assumes some level of accident like that occur.

[muman613]

I think what McDonalds had done was misleading and perhaps Starbucks too except in their case it came out early. Especially in Markets like India where they should be well aware many there wouldn't eat cow.
I know there might be but that would count as an accident. I think even the strict kosher laws permits and assumes some level of accident like that occur.

I believe the rule is that if something unkosher comes into contact with something kosher that if it is less that 1/60th of the volume that the unkosher ingredient becomes nullified.

http://www.chabad.org/library/howto/wizard_cdo/aid/113636/jewish/The-160th-Rule.htm

Even a small trace of a non-kosher substance -- as little as 1/60th (1.66 percent) of the food's volume, and in certain cases, even less than that -- will render an otherwise kosher food not kosher. By the same token, utensils that come in contact with hot food will absorb its "taste" and subsequently impart it to other food.

For example, a loaf of bread baked in a pan smeared with shortening that contains a small percentage of lard, fruit juice pasteurized in the same machinery as non-kosher milk, or a vegetarian dish prepared in a restaurant kitchen with the same utensils in which a non-kosher dish was cooked earlier -- these would all be regarded as non-kosher if the proportion is greater than the permissible percentage.

It is for this reason that separate utensils are used for meat and milk, and that a reliable kosher certification is needed for foods processed or prepared outside the home.

http://www.kehillastorah.org/practical-tishrei-5760.html

Practical Halacha of the month:
Tishrei 5761
Q: I was cooking a meat stew when a cup of milk accidentally fell into the stew pot. What do I do?

A: The answer depends on the ratio of the amount of milk to the amount of meat:

Case 1 - There is at least 60 times as much meat as milk. In this case, everything is kosher and you don't need to do anything.

Case 2 - There is less than 60 times as much meat as milk. In this case, everything is unkosher. The food needs to be discarded and the pot needs to be kashered.

Q: Why?

A: We know that mixtures of milk and meat are forbidden. However when there is 60 times as much meat as milk (or vice versa) the taste of the meat overwhelms the taste of the milk and it is considered as though the milk is nullified. Hence we view this as though it were 100% kosher meat. This is known as bitul b'shishim (nullification in 60). This would also work if some pork accidentally fell into a pot of kosher food. Whatever is recognizable as pork should be removed but whatever is cooked in, even if the whole thing disintegrated will be nullified if there is a 60:1 ratio of kosher food to pork. Please note that bitul only holds when the mixture is accidental. One may never intentionally add a non-kosher ingredient planning on it to be batel (nullified).

 

[angryChineseKahanist]

Whelll. What do you expect from them. look who they hire.

[muman613]

Whelll. What do you expect from them. look who they hire.

Who? I've never been to a Starbucks...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The issue is that Jews are commanded not to eat insects, or any parts of insects...

Um, actually fellas, if they are smashed up beyond recognition (for example into a "bug juice" where you cannot make out the parts by looking at it and would have no idea they are bugs looking at it) it's permitted to eat them.  Look it up.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Do you two always fight? Like old men in a barber shop?

[muman613]

Um, actually fellas, if they are smashed up beyond recognition (for example into a "bug juice" where you cannot make out the parts by looking at it and would have no idea they are bugs looking at it) it's permitted to eat them.  Look it up.

As I posted above, if the volume is less than 1/60th of the volume of the food then it is bitul...

Actually invisible bugs are not a violation...

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/125/Q1/

David Preiss wrote:

Why does the Torah speak of forms of life that are visible only to the human eye?

Dear Susan & David,

Good question. Now let me ask you one: Why are we allowed to breathe? Zillions of microorganisms are floating around in the air, and we swallow some with every breath.

The answer is: The Torah prohibits only bugs which can be seen by the naked eye. Organisms seen only with the aid of a microscope are kosher.

The logic is this: The Torah was given to human beings, not angels. Its laws are geared to normal human experience. Bugs we see in 'real life' are forbidden. 'Invisible' ones - which seem like they exist only in a laboratory - are not forbidden.

When improved microscopes brought improved awareness of microscopic organisms, some people suggested that perhaps we should filter our water to avoid consuming the organisms. A renowned rabbi responded: "If you give a nickel to charity while holding it under a magnifying glass, do you get credit as though you gave a dime?"

Speaking of germs: Three amoebae are sitting on a park bench. Suddenly, one of them jumps up and runs off.
"Hey! Where did Harry go?" one asks the other.

"Guess he had to split." (Thanks to E.C.S.)

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

As I posted above, if the volume is less than 1/60th of the volume of the food then it is bitul...

But that's not what I said.  I said something diferent from what you posted above.  Even if its any percentage of the food, when they are smashed up to the point that you can't make out bugs or bug parts its not a problem.  Thus all the kashrut organizations that won't give their kosher certifications on candies w this kind of coloring in it are strict.  Some talmidei chachamim did certify this type of product in the past.   Also one other consideration is that the bugs for this coloring are dried out for long periods of time beforehand, and so they can lose their status as bugs in halcha from this.  Again some are strict on this issue.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Do you two always fight? Like old men in a barber shop?

Whom are you referring to?

Btw my post was directed at multiple people.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I was just teasing! KWRBT!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I will add however that the Vilna Gaon argues on the shulchan aruch's ruling in this matter (although many poskim argue back on him) so of course there is room to be stringent.  I'm just trying to get people thinking.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I would think, if I knew what you were talking about? Not an insult!

[angryChineseKahanist]

Whelll. What do you expect from them. look who they hire.

'rabs.
Dunkin Donuts is even more notorius for hiring 'rabs

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Honestly this doesn't outrage me a bit. This is much preferable to harmful chemical dyes. Of course, this needs to be fully labeled and disclosed.

[muman613]

Is Starbucks even Kosher?

I found this :

http://www.crcweb.org/Starbucks%20Beverage%20List%202011-04-08.pdf

Chicago Rabbinical Council
Guide to Starbucks Beverages
April 8, 2011

Over the years, Starbucks shops have evolved from simple coffee shops to stores that serve many kosher and non-kosher items, with the most serious non-kosher items being hot meat sandwiches. The standard daily clean-up at Starbucks includes a hot wash of all utensils and some parts of that washing are done without soap. This washing process challenges the kosher status of the otherwise kosher products and each product must be judged by a competent halachic authority.

When evaluating these issues, Rav Schwartz Shlit”a, Av Beis Din of the cRc, acknowledged that there is basis for being lenient on many of the items being sold at Starbucks stores, but directed the cRc to be true to the mission of a reliable Kashrus Agency which only recommends items that are free of all shailos and not those which are only acceptable b’dieved.

Rav Schwartz Shlit”a noted that this is especially true when there is a viable alternative which is not subject to the same shailos, and indeed there are many Starbucks locations that do not serve hot meat sandwiches. These are generally the Starbucks kiosks that can be found in airports, highway rest-stops, supermarkets etc., and at these locations the cRc is able to recommend any drink made from kosher ingredients (even though some items in those stores are not kosher certified). [Please be aware that some kiosks (mostly in department stores) share sinks and other equipment with nearby eateries; those Starbucks facilities have the status of full-service stores noted below.]

To fully explain the details, questions, and shailos involved in this issue the cRc printed an analysis of the topic in the Spring 2011 edition of The Journal of Halacha and Contemporary Society, and that article is available on the cRc website. The following list is accurate at this time for stores in the United States, and since the information is subject to change this list should not be used after February 29, 2012. [The list is limited to beverages and does not address foods sold in Starbucks (e.g. sandwiches), or toppings and other items added to beverages.] It is also worth noting that many items sold at Starbucks are dairy and chalav stam.

[Zelhar]

But that's not what I said.  I said something diferent from what you posted above.  Even if its any percentage of the food, when they are smashed up to the point that you can't make out bugs or bug parts its not a problem.  Thus all the kashrut organizations that won't give their kosher certifications on candies w this kind of coloring in it are strict.  Some talmidei chachamim did certify this type of product in the past.   Also one other consideration is that the bugs for this coloring are dried out for long periods of time beforehand, and so they can lose their status as bugs in halcha from this.  Again some are strict on this issue.

I haven't heard of such opinion and it seems problematic. From what you say it's kosher to ear pig if you turn it into pink slime. Or is it then just applied to bugs ? Well in that case I think it has something to do with the 1/60 rule, and that rule I believe applies in case of an accident. If you deliberately add non-kosher ingredient then I think it's not kosher at any ration.