Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
muman613:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on April 09, 2012, 04:29:17 PM ---This is false revisionism. Only the Torah is written on a scroll by hand and kept in its special cabin in the synagogue. It is clearly obvious that the Torah trumps Neviim which trumps Ketuvim. All are holy, but there are very obvious ranking.
--- End quote ---
No sir. You are the revisionist... The entire Torah is divine according to Orthodox Jewish belief.
So it is only holy if it is written on a scroll? Who said this? Is this something you made up? I guess then you consider Megillat Esther Holy and not Isiaah because Esther is written on a scroll... And Hashems name doesn't even appear once in the Megillah...
You realize that the Mezuzah and Tefillin are also written on a scroll? And the Torah doesn't mention them except through the Oral law and cryptic mention in a couple of places {writing a sign on the doorpost, and binding this on the head and on the arm}..
muman613:
Rationalism means having a rational explanaton for the Torah, not just accepting that what it says is true. Judaism NEVER expects a Jew to believe based on blind faith. As a matter of fact the 1st Commandment of the Aseret HaDibroth is a command to KNOW that there is a Hashem. The only way to Know this is to inquire of the matter, to ask questions, and there are answers to all questions in the Torah.
The Chumash is only the 'Cliff Notes' of the entire Jewish scriptures...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rationalism
--- Quote ---
3) Theology . the doctrine that human reason, unaided by divine revelation, is an adequate or the sole guide to all attainable religious truth.
A belief or theory that opinions and actions should be based on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response.
--- End quote ---
Tag-MehirTzedek:
Zelhar- read the Rambam's treatise on ressurection of the dead. Many thought that he perhaps also was against the idea of ressurection of the dead, but he says otherwise and brings many proofs from the Tannach, I don't know them off the head but you can do the research maybe includes the 5 books of Moshe as well, I don't remember. Either way we beleive in all the true Prophets after Moshe as well and to deny them goes against the 5 books as well which say to accept a true prophet that will be and speak in the name of G-D (of-course after proper investigation of which we knoe that people like Isaia and Ezekiel are included in the prophets of
G-D).
The ressurection of the dead doesn't have to be "irrational". I believe that Rav Ari Kaplan discusses it in one of his books (something to do with ressurection) and says it's part of the natural world. Also we can look at DNA and other things.
Also not long ago I saw it mentioned on a science show as well in the show "morgan freeman through the wormhole " Not sure which episode.
Zelhar:
Listen guys, when you read the Torah, the prophesies are very clear for example about the inheritance of Eretz Israel as well as punishment and exile for failing to follow the commandments. These phrases one may not believe in but cannot deny their meaning. But all the "proofs" about after life and resurrection stem from much more opaque texts that can be understood allegorically and in different contexts.
Do you take literally the phrase "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, " seriously ?! Will the Leopard also "lie" with the goat on the other meaning will intermarry and spawn a hybrid ?
muman613:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on April 09, 2012, 04:52:30 PM ---Listen guys, when you read the Torah, the prophesies are very clear for example about the inheritance of Eretz Israel as well as punishment and exile for failing to follow the commandments. These phrases one may not believe in but cannot deny their meaning. But all the "proofs" about after life and resurrection stem from much more opaque texts that can be understood allegorically and in different contexts.
Do you take literally the phrase "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, " seriously ?! Will the Leopard also "lie" with the goat on the other meaning will intermarry and spawn a hybrid ?
--- End quote ---
The sages, who have spent their life studying, have passed down the interpretation. No sage ever took that passage literally. This is not an argument... But the Oral law clearly clarifies things which are opaque {as you call them}...
What you appear to be denying is that there is a Mesorah or Transmission of Torah teaching... But there is a well documented chain of transmission which goes back to Moses. You have issues with this... That is your issue which you need to resolve...
Regarding the Wolf lying with the lamb, there is a precedent when it did happen... Noahs Ark...
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/402077/jewish/Peace-by-Choice.htm
--- Quote ---Noah and the Messianic Age
The prophet Isaiah promised that in the messianic age, animals of prey will set their aggression aside. “The wolf shall live with the lamb, and the leopard lie down with the goat; the calf, the cub and the ox will be together, and a child will lead them. The cow and the bear will graze together . . . the lion and the cattle will both eat straw."2
This particular miracle already occurred once before in history. In Noah’s ark, during the deluge, the animals tamed their aggression and lived together. The lion did not prey on the sheep and the tiger did not stalk the lamb.
The former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Yisrael Meyer Lau, posed the following question. If this miracle did not herald the messianic age when it occurred the first time, why was Isaiah convinced that it would herald the messianic age the next time it occurred?
In response, Rabbi Lau suggested that a distinction can be drawn between that which occurred in Noah’s ark and the miracles of the messianic age.
--- End quote ---
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version