Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
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Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 09, 2012, 12:24:09 PM ---A Rambamist is someone who follows the Mishneh Torah as their halachic guide as opposed to the Shulchan Aruch. It's not someone who holds every opinion the Rambam ever held, just like followers of the Shulchan Aruch in practice don't hold every opinion that its author Rabbi Yosef Karo ever held. Another word for Rambamist is "talmid haRambam" (student of the Rambam). The only major ethnic Jewish group that holds by the Mishneh Torah over the Shulchan Aruch is the Yemenites. This group is the most rational group and has not only a purer religious tradition but a purer form of Hebrew. They did not experience the schisms that took place in Europe (Reform, Conservative and the Orthodox reaction) or the pagan innovations made by the mystic movements and the Zohar (aka the Book of Mormon of Judaism). The terms "Talmidei HaRambam" and "Rambamists" can be used to denote Jews who have attached themselves to Mishneh Torah observance even though they are not of Yemenite descent. There are Yemenite rabbis such as Rabbi Yihiye Kafach who have written against the Zohar. Since one rabbi doesn't trump plain reason, it should be clear to anyone (not just Rambamists) who can read that the above verses don't speak about gilgul, and if you want support for gilgul I'd say consult Hindu texts.
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That's actually not what the term rambamist means. (Maybe its what you meant by your comment but not what the word means). The term refers to someone who follows what the Rambam says on every single issue no matter what and disregard other halachic commentaries or other explanations as a rule they've taken on themselves that everyone else is always wrong and he always right - and not just in halacha. (See for example certain rambamist nuts who have slandered Reb Yaakov kamenetsky since he rightly pointed out that certain scientific/astronomical beliefs espoused by rambam have been disproven by modern science and his views in those specific instances can and should be disregarded. They attack him for this and they insist that the stars and planets really are sentient beings and the moon landing was a hoax etc. Maybe most or many of those yemenites and/or others who use mishne Torah as a guide rather than shulchan aruch also fall into this category of rambamist I have described.. But it certainly exists and is what the term refers to. Rav bar hayim has an article (editorial) up on machon shilo about this topic written by Yair haKohen I believe where Yair takes issue w that approach and raises some relevant cautions. But hey the same cautions should certainly be raised on the many many "shulchan aruchists" (I just made up that term) in the orthodox world.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/holidays/67-featured/563-on-rambamism-a-word-to-the-wise
muman613:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 09, 2012, 06:44:26 PM ---When I talk about rationalism I'm not talking about rationalizing prophecy itself. All Orthodox Jews accept Torah prophecy's truth as axiomatic. You either believe it or you don't, for a variety of reasons which may or may not be rational. I'm talking about a rational approach to interpreting and deriving Halacha and beliefs BASED on this prophecy. Rabbis are not prophets. Therefore they are not divinely inspired to talk about the afterlife and the spiritual world off the top of their heads, or make up laws out of thin air. They are given authority to DERIVE these things from what prophets who actually did experience Divine revelation already passed down to us. Rationalism is needed in this derivation process because without it, a rabbi could just invent whatever he wanted and pass it off as valid. In other words, G-d doesn't owe us any rational explanation of what He says, but a rabbi does. So with the example of gilgul, since this is not in any prophecy, a rabbi who has no prophetic powers would have to demonstrate how he got this out of the Torah with rationalism which does not hold up as we saw above. But with the resurrection of the dead and Mashiach, Rambam CAN demonstrate how he got this out of the Torah because it's right there in the aforementioned Tanach verses. Some rabbis are more rational than others when they explain things. Since I take Tanach seriously, I want the most reasonable people interpreting it for me, telling me what it actually said, not people out in mystical la la land taking scriptures out of context to tie them to illogical and impractical concepts.
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Mystical La La Land? What is that? You have a basic problem with spiritual matters dealt with in the Torah. I really don't know why you have such a problem. The mystical interpretations have existed long before Zohar existed on the scene. The Zohar is not the single source of Jewish mysticism. But you have a problem with any Rabbi who believes in things which contradict what Rambam says. You realize that Rambam was not accepted at the time he wrote his Mishneh Torah.... He virtually re-invented Judaism in the form of Aristotlean philosophy which was not acceptable to much of the Jewish world at the time.
I have a problem with people who only accept Rambam and not other sages. As I have said and demonstrated multiple times there are non-rational things which the Talmud relates. Picking and choosing what is acceptable to you is not considered the Jewish way. I learn from all sources... It is s simplificaton if you listen to only one source.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 09, 2012, 08:47:51 PM ---When I said Rambamist I did not mean to imply that Rambam is the only rabbi worth listening to. The context that I've seen "Rambamist" used in (and this may not be the only context out there) is when referring to adherents of the Mishneh Torah code. Now all practitioners of Torah go by a code. All communities have a standard practice. Out of the codes out there today, I find the Mishneh Torah to be the purest one. However that's not to say that further study can't come up with something better, but I'll leave that up to the Torah scholars. I support what Rabbi David Bar Chayim is doing in Israel, and value the insights of all knowledgeable rabbis who use reason.
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This sounds like a good approach.... I hope I have not offended you by being defensive of my beliefs...
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 09, 2012, 08:47:51 PM ---When I said Rambamist I did not mean to imply that Rambam is the only rabbi worth listening to. The context that I've seen "Rambamist" used in (and this may not be the only context out there) is when referring to adherents of the Mishneh Torah code. Now all practitioners of Torah go by a code. All communities have a standard practice. Out of the codes out there today, I find the Mishneh Torah to be the purest one. However that's not to say that further study can't come up with something better, but I'll leave that up to the Torah scholars. I support what Rabbi David Bar Chayim is doing in Israel, and value the insights of all knowledgeable rabbis who use reason.
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Fair enough. I agree with you on all that.
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