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Dan Ben Noah:
Shalom

Zelhar:
I think this article shows nothing but biased against science. "supernatural" is by definition something that cannot be explained scientifically. And of course God by definition is not a natural phenomenon that one can measure and explain scientifically. Genetics and evolution are not and cannot refute the existence of God but some atheists bastardize pseudo-scientific rhetoric in an attempt to make people believe they are right. However I think on the other side you have the "flat earth society" type of people that think the bible is the only valid science book, something it was never meant to be.

Zelhar:

--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 21, 2012, 03:37:30 PM ---That's the whole point that the article is making.  They start with evolution as an assumption and working backwards from their conclusion contrive a scenario where evolution could be true even if it doesn't work the same way as the created version.  That's not science.  And calling them on it is not bias against science.

--- End quote ---
But in the case you posted they talk about something very specific and related completely to genetic science. It's not like this scientist try to prove metaphysical facts using his particular discipline. And it happens sometimes in science that scientist have tunnel vision and they don't try to look outside of their very narrow and particular field of expertise I am not sure if that's the case here or not but anyway that has little to do with the debate about evolution and atheism.

Zelhar:

--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 21, 2012, 03:55:06 PM ---Ok, so let's take a supernatural event like Elijah being carried to heaven in a chariot of fire.  This, like creation, is something that can't be measured or explained scientifically.  But what if someone tried to prove that it was scientific processes that formed the chariot of fire and made Elijah disappear and said G-d was not involved in the event at all?  What if they started doing experiments to try to reproduce a chariot of fire that could spontaneously make people disappear?  Clearly the only reason people would do something this ridiculous is if they had an axe to grind against G-d, not because they were genuinely interested in truth.  The same thing is true of devilutionists.

--- End quote ---
Sounds like something the History Channel would do, if they hadn't already. I think this is quite silly how some people try to explain away events such as the 10 plagues as natural events.

Zelhar:

--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on April 21, 2012, 04:01:14 PM ---They say that they want to find out how something "evolved" (so they assume it evolved in the first place).  And then they engineer a laboratory-produced version that is incredibly inferior to the natural one using their assumptions.  They could probably also engineer a way that water could be produced from metal if that was their goal but that doesn't mean it's a natural process.

--- End quote ---
They indeed work under the assumption of genetic evolution and that is very reasonable. It's a theory with established supporting evidence and with productive and beneficial discoveries particularly in medicine. I am not qualified to tell if the specific methodology in one particular lab experiment was flawed but generally it is a scientific fact that DNA and the process of mutation in DNA exist and play a major role in life science.

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