Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ONE MILLION Haredim planning to march against a Torah command!
muman613:
See also Pirkei Avot 4:12
http://www.shechem.org/torah/avot.html
--- Quote ---12. Rabbi Meir said: Engage little in business but occupy yourself with Torah. Be humble in spirit before all men. If you neglect Torah many causes for neglecting it will present themselves to you; but if you labor in Torah then G-d has abundant reward to give you.
--- End quote ---
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter4-12.html
For the most part, this week's mishna seems to revolve around one basic theme -- that Torah and religion should play the most important part of our lives over livelihood and career.
R. Meir first advises that we lessen our business activities and study more Torah. As many of us know, work never really finishes -- even after that deadline has passed. There are always loose ends to tie up, e-mails to respond to, work to take home from the office, and new ventures to undertake, thereby (we suppose) earning us more money and prestige. And of course, thanks to cell phones, palmtops, blackberries, etc. (whatever the latest is -- I have trouble keeping track) the aggravation never ends.
(It's been observed that most adults spends more of their waking hours with coworkers than with spouse and children. Perhaps unavoidable, but hardly beneficial to family cohesiveness. Hopefully, the family time will be superior in quality if not in quantity.)
To this our mishna states that there must be a limit. For most of us work is a necessary mainstay of our lives, in fact a fulfillment of a Torah obligation to support ourselves monetarily. But it is at best an indirect form of Divine service. It must never take precedence over true spiritual growth.
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on July 20, 2012, 06:16:13 PM --- Welfare is for those who try but cannot succeed in work. Its not for purposefully not working and then asking for a handout + creating a situation where the Torah is disgraced because of that.
Show me where it says what you did in Pirkei Avot.
This is from Pirkei Avot, something very applicable to the situation.
Chapter 1 # 10
"Shemayah said: Love work; hate domination; and seek not undue intimacy with the government."
http://www.shechem.org/torah/avot.htm
Anyway we do not want a situation of widespread poverty upon our people, especially the kids when they can be making some $.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but tzedaka is a requirement. So even if one does not wish to pay into welfare, one has an obligation to give tzedaka. When I review Pirkei Avos again, I will find the same exact place, but it could also be in Orchas Tzadikim...It shouldn't be too hard to find a source in the Torah which say that all of our wealth belongs to Hashem and that everything in the universe comes from Him.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: The One and Only Mo on July 21, 2012, 11:00:46 PM ---Yes, but tzedaka is a requirement. So even if one does not wish to pay into welfare, one has an obligation to give tzedaka.
--- End quote ---
True, I never said not to give Tzedakah. It is an obligation.
And Muman- thanks for proving my point with this - " Rabbi Meir said: Engage little in business but occupy yourself with Torah. "
That is what the great giants did and recommended. Work little, be independent, but focus mainly upon Torah, Mitzwoth and Maase Tovim.
The One and Only Mo:
it's a secular state. I would expect no less than for the chilonim to wish to wipe out Torah the same way the government wishes to wipe out the land.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: The One and Only Mo on July 22, 2012, 09:35:54 AM ---it's a secular state. I would expect no less than for the chilonim to wish to wipe out Torah the same way the government wishes to wipe out the land.
--- End quote ---
No one is arguing that some do not wish to. That is true, what is sometimes just as bad is when they try to "join them then beat them" as is said by having the government involved with strings attached they can even control the Torah world because essentially they know that it will not go away. Soo having some "Haredi" Knesset parties and throwing them a few bones here and there can and will get them to shut up while the leftists get away with what they plan. Including destroying Jewish communities while using the Yeshivas as hostages for the Haredi parties not to vote against them. This was and is the ultimatum given- either do not vote against it or get thrown out with then the Yeshiva students and the Yeshivot not getting $. Some of them figure, well it will pass anyway soo might as well make some $ for our Yeshivot and not have people have no $ at all.
It is a booby trap, we are saying we do not want and should not be in such situations.
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