Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
HaRav Elyashiv z'l and the Haredi Mind — Part 01
Tag-MehirTzedek:
But the sources you again provided deal with Moshe not entering the land of Israel and not about dying. Anyway how can we compare any Rabbi today with Moshe Rabbeinu. People die, it is called nature. For some to display shock of a 102 year old man passing away is, quite frankly shocking.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on August 05, 2012, 01:26:38 PM ---But the sources you again provided deal with Moshe not entering the land of Israel and not about dying. Anyway how can we compare any Rabbi today with Moshe Rabbeinu. People die, it is called nature. For some to display shock of a 102 year old man passing away is, quite frankly shocking.
--- End quote ---
Tag,
The Pshat of these lines in Pinchas is that Hashem decreed that Moshe should die because of his sin.... Tell me you don't deny it...
Bamidbar 27:12-14
12. The Lord said to Moses, "Go up to this mount Abarim and look at the land that I have given to the children of Israel.
13. And when you have seen it, you too will be gathered to your people, just as Aaron your brother was gathered.
14. Because you disobeyed My command in the desert of Zin when the congregation quarreled, [when you were] to sanctify Me through the water before their eyes; these were the waters of dispute at Kadesh, in the desert of Zin.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 05, 2012, 02:09:10 PM ---
Tag,
The Pshat of these lines in Pinchas is that Hashem decreed that Moshe should die because of his sin.... Tell me you don't deny it...
Bamidbar 27:12-14
12. The Lord said to Moses, "Go up to this mount Abarim and look at the land that I have given to the children of Israel.
13. And when you have seen it, you too will be gathered to your people, just as Aaron your brother was gathered.
14. Because you disobeyed My command in the desert of Zin when the congregation quarreled, [when you were] to sanctify Me through the water before their eyes; these were the waters of dispute at Kadesh, in the desert of Zin.
--- End quote ---
Isn't it saying that the punishment is precisely that Moshe cannot enter the land of Israel. In fact we also find that the last thing Moshe did was take revenge against Midian and that is what g-D told Moshe to do. to take revenge against Midian and then Moshe would go to the next world. Moshe did this enthusiastically even though it was his last mission in this world.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on August 05, 2012, 03:55:30 PM --- Isn't it saying that the punishment is precisely that Moshe cannot enter the land of Israel. In fact we also find that the last thing Moshe did was take revenge against Midian and that is what g-D told Moshe to do. to take revenge against Midian and then Moshe would go to the next world. Moshe did this enthusiastically even though it was his last mission in this world.
--- End quote ---
Tag,
What you say is true but you realize that Vaetchanan occurs after the battle with Midian when Moshe is beseeching Hashem to rescind the decree. The point is that Moshe had to die, not because he was too old to live anymore, but because of the sins..
The verse I quoted explains that it is because of the sin that he will be 'gathered to his people' which means to die. In yesterdays Parasha we learn that Moshe davened 515 times to rescind this decree, and Hashem said 'Enough' meaning that Hashem could not permit Moshe from entering the land. As I explained in two of the above postings and Rabbi Richman explains in the video I will post below...
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 05, 2012, 02:09:10 PM ---
Tag,
The Pshat of these lines in Pinchas is that Hashem decreed that Moshe should die because of his sin.... Tell me you don't deny it...
Bamidbar 27:12-14
12. The Lord said to Moses, "Go up to this mount Abarim and look at the land that I have given to the children of Israel.
13. And when you have seen it, you too will be gathered to your people, just as Aaron your brother was gathered.
14. Because you disobeyed My command in the desert of Zin when the congregation quarreled, [when you were] to sanctify Me through the water before their eyes; these were the waters of dispute at Kadesh, in the desert of Zin.
--- End quote ---
Those verses are clearly saying MOSHE DOES NOT GET TO ENTER THE LAND BECAUSE OF HIS SINNING.
All the commentaries pretty much agree with me. I don't know where you're getting yours from.
Is it a punishment to be "gathered to your people like aharon was?!" NO! It is simply the end of Moshe's life and the sefer says over and over again specifically that Hashem only allowed him to look at the land, not enter it.
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