Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Was the Temple Destroyed Because of Hatred?
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on July 29, 2012, 08:51:55 PM --- Tell me that you did not hear this word at least 1ce today? I could bet you a million bucks that you did. And I have heard some of these people before and yes they do advocate that the Temple will fall from heaven and other similar things. I can also almost bet that in none of the shiurim you heard today was it mentioned that the Temple should be physically built by us. I'm not hating on them, but these are facts of that type of Haskaffa that is prevalent. Their is no such thing as "Ahavat Hinam" their are the laws of the Torah including loving one's fellow Jew when it is appropriate.
--- End quote ---
I was listening to the speakers from TorahAnyTime, Chazzak, and Naaleh and none of them said the Temple will fall from heaven. I listened from 10AM-5PM to all the Rabbis. I would not listen to them if they said this because I believe that we must make the effort to build it otherwise it will never be built.
But this is an aside. I do believe that baseless hatred was a primary cause of the destruction. If you could please explain to me what the Rabbi said was the real reason for the destruction I would like to know. Maybe I will listen to this tomorrow just to discover what he believes the reason for the destruction was.
Here is the list of Rabbis I listened to:
http://torahanytime.com/index.php?s=Tisha-Bav-Schedule-2012
* R. Label Lam
* R. Zecharia Wallerstein
* R. Shimon Kessin
* R. Nasan Tzvi Sherman
* R. Label Lam
* R. Bentzion Shafier
* R. Zecharia Wallerstein
* R. Yitzchak Oelbaum
* R. Motti Miller
* R. Eliezer Krohn
* R. Akiva Rutenberg
* R. Israel Itshakov
* R. Mordechai Kraft
* R. Igal Haimoff
* R. Label Lam
* R. YY Rubenstein
* R. Shmuel Skaist
And I have said that there are some that believe this and I understand that there are sources which support such belief. I don't throw out the idea because it is possible, though improbable that that will be how it happens. I believe Hashem wants us to take the initiative.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on July 29, 2012, 10:40:51 PM ---I was listening to the speakers from TorahAnyTime, Chazzak, and Naaleh and none of them said the Temple will fall from heaven. I listened from 10AM-5PM to all the Rabbis. I would not listen to them if they said this because I believe that we must make the effort to build it otherwise it will never be built.
But this is an aside. I do believe that baseless hatred was a primary cause of the destruction. If you could please explain to me what the Rabbi said was the real reason for the destruction I would like to know. Maybe I will listen to this tomorrow just to discover what he believes the reason for the destruction was.
Here is the list of Rabbis I listened to:
http://torahanytime.com/index.php?s=Tisha-Bav-Schedule-2012
* R. Label Lam
* R. Zecharia Wallerstein
* R. Shimon Kessin
* R. Nasan Tzvi Sherman
* R. Label Lam
* R. Bentzion Shafier
* R. Zecharia Wallerstein
* R. Yitzchak Oelbaum
* R. Motti Miller
* R. Eliezer Krohn
* R. Akiva Rutenberg
* R. Israel Itshakov
* R. Mordechai Kraft
* R. Igal Haimoff
* R. Label Lam
* R. YY Rubenstein
* R. Shmuel Skaist
And I have said that there are some that believe this and I understand that there are sources which support such belief. I don't throw out the idea because it is possible, though improbable that that will be how it happens. I believe Hashem wants us to take the initiative.
--- End quote ---
I know most of them, and I know what they have been saying this year and the past as well. Not saying everything they said was bad or wrong, but am saying that their definitely is the missing of some things that need to be said. What did they speak about? The internet and its dangers, about getting along in personal lives/relationships, stories from the holocaust. All good things and all have points but what was not mentioned is the physical rebuilding of the Beit Hamikdash, the expelling of our enemies, the setting up of a Jewish kingdom in the Land. Am I wrong?
muman613:
No you are not wrong. They did not discuss removing the arabs. While I agree that this is a necessary step in rebuilding, and it is a primary obstacle to rebuilding, I also understand that we have Jews who need to have more emmunah and bitachon before they are prepared to take these steps. We need to strengthen ourselves, the Jewish people, and I believe that the reason the Rabbis spend more time talking about repairing our own spiritual connection is because without this we will never have the courage to look our physical enemies in the face and say "This is Ours" and "Get your filthy hands off my Temple".
I think both you and I agree that getting rid of the arabs is a major step in rebuilding the Temple. But can we really expect a miracle of such large proportions without having the majority of our people along with us...
edu:
My reply to muman613 who said:
--- Quote ---Even if a building was built today do you really think that the building would stand? I don't think that a vast majority of Jews are prepared to accept the repercussions of having a realy true Holy Temple where the Shechina dwells. I am all for taking steps to rebuild the Temple and look forward to the day when we have it. But I also don't think that by just building a building that the Shechina will dwell in it as she did in the two Holy Temples.
--- End quote ---
There are many Torah commandments connected to the building of the Temple and the offering of sacrifices, burning the ketoret, lighting the Temple Menora, etc.
Just like any commandment that we do have access to today, I would like it to be done at the highest level, but if it's a choice of a low level fulfillment of the commandment or nothing at all, I will take the low level option, so too, regarding the Temple, sacrifices, Ketoret, Menora, etc.
I would like to have them at the highest quality level but if it is a choice of doing the bare minimum or nothing at all I will choose the bare minimum.
Another point to raise, is that our sages said there were 5 ways that the 2nd Temple was inferior to the 1st Temple. In fact the survivors from the 1st Temple period cried when they saw that the 2nd Temple was rebuilt in a much inferior way and their cries overcame the expressions of Joy of the younger generation, who had only experienced the newer Temple. But nevertheless, our Sages went ahead and built, to fulfill whatever commandments were in their ability and they also knew, that it is easier to jump from an intermediate stage of a mediocre Temple to a high quality Temple, than it is to jump from nothing at all to a high quality Temple.
Also read the book of Ezra. At the start of the 2nd Temple period we see that much of the Nation of Israel were on a low spiritual level. This did not hold back the building project.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on July 29, 2012, 08:13:55 PM ---Even if a building was built today do you really think that the building would stand?
--- End quote ---
As long as they don't use faulty engineers, it should be fine. Do you see other buildings that "can't stand" when people try to build them?
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