Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women

[The One and Only Mo]

1. Because it does harm them.

2.  Because I am allowed to have an opinion.

3.  Because their craziness will come to affect me when they promote it in the Jewish world.   The chumras of chasidim in kashrut have come to dominate all of orthodox kashrus because of their activism.   And similarly societal trends and cultural norms.  As is natural, they spread.   And what used to be something relegated to some small tiny population, later on becomes "just the chasidim," and later still becomes, "If you don't do that you are not frum."   

4.  Because I am allowed to have an opinion.   And when they make up their own halachas I can say it doesn't make sense because I am arguing for the Torah's honor.

Again, I agree that if there is harm, it is horrible. They are not making a halacha, they are just buying stuff to help them because they feel they need it. It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's another to compare them to your standards. You have to see that there are people out there who do things that we will never be able to fathom because they are so far removed from our lifestyle. Why can't they just be different? Why does everybody have to fit the same criteria - - - the criteria explicitly made by you?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

And as I said, many people who have good intentions commit errors and bad sins.   Because usually people are not malicious.  Just stupid, or misguided, or mistaken, or they don't have priorities straight.   So "just let them do as they feel is right" is not valid because you are assuming that since they have good intentions (or what in your opinion are good intentions) then it's ok.   But sometimes good intentions lead us on the wrong path.
There's a famous saying actually called 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'  or something like that.

[The One and Only Mo]

And as I said, many people who have good intentions commit errors and bad sins.   Because usually people are not malicious.  Just stupid, or misguided, or mistaken, or they don't have priorities straight.   So "just let them do as they feel is right" is not valid because you are assuming that since they have good intentions (or what in your opinion are good intentions) then it's ok.   But sometimes good intentions lead us on the wrong path.
There's a famous saying actually called 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'  or something like that.

And I already said, if anything bad comes out of it, specifically harm to humans, then it is wrong. If nobody gets harmed, and only good comes out of it, then it is good.

[The One and Only Mo]

And I already said, if anything bad comes out of it, specifically harm to humans, then it is wrong. If nobody gets harmed, and only good comes out of it, then it is good.

Only time will tell, I guess. I have to go to sleep.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

That very well may be. But it all comes down to them doing whatever they feel is best for their own yetzer haras. Who are we to tell them what to do? It's sad, but if they feel they have to, then they should.

 You do know (or should know) that many if not most or all of the times the "they" are thugs within the community who terrorize the rest of the Jewish Orthodox or even "ultra-Orthodox" community to conform to their "standards".
 But yea what KWRBT said I did not hear before nor did I ever even think of such a scenario arising, but it is truly sick.

[The One and Only Mo]

You do know (or should know) that many if not most or all of the times the "they" are thugs within the community who terrorize the rest of the Jewish Orthodox or even "ultra-Orthodox" community who conform to their "standards".
 But yea what KWRBT said I did not hear before nor did I ever even think of such a scenario arising, but it is truly sick.

So a Rabbi, a Priest, and an Imam walk into a bar.

[muman613]

Im amazed that this story has brought out Haredim bashing in some of the members here. This story has no impact on anyone but them, and it does not demean women {as some here have already alleged}. I stand with Mo on the idea that they are entitled to do whatever it takes to keep their level of avoiding the immodest thoughts. I can appreciate the struggle and fully understand that the eyes can lead a man astray. Does anyone here suggest otherwise? Most men will agree that the thoughts which are brought to mind when a woman who dresses to 'kill' walks by are less than wholesome. It is these thoughts which will lead him to sin at night. It is not the fault of the woman {unless she realizes that she is putting a stumbling block before a man} that he thinks this, it is his responsibility to avoid thinking it.

It should not be a tool to bash Haredim.

[muman613]

You do know (or should know) that many if not most or all of the times the "they" are thugs within the community who terrorize the rest of the Jewish Orthodox or even "ultra-Orthodox" community to conform to their "standards".
 But yea what KWRBT said I did not hear before nor did I ever even think of such a scenario arising, but it is truly sick.

Are you serious?! Nobody ever suggested that every Jew should wear these glasses.

[muman613]

And as I said, many people who have good intentions commit errors and bad sins.   Because usually people are not malicious.  Just stupid, or misguided, or mistaken, or they don't have priorities straight.   So "just let them do as they feel is right" is not valid because you are assuming that since they have good intentions (or what in your opinion are good intentions) then it's ok.   But sometimes good intentions lead us on the wrong path.
There's a famous saying actually called 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'  or something like that.

So just what is being violated by wearing such glasses to avoid seeing things which may be immodest? You are making assumptions that it is dangerous to health... Or do you know otherwise?

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

Judaism could be regarded as a proselytizing religion. Proselytizing is a good sign. If you believe you have the truth, why would you not want to share it?

For example there is Jews for Judaism and other kiruv efforts which are intended to bring unobservant Jews into observance, prevent intermarriage and assimilation, prevent Jews from being evangelized by other religions, and to bring non-orthodox Jews into the orthodoxy.  Chabad Lubavich has brought countless unobservant and unaffiliated or loosely affiliated Jews into observance and solidarity with the Jewish people and has also made efforts to bring knowledge of the Noahide laws to the nations.

[edu]

From Tractate Pesachim 113
R. Johanan said: Concerning three does the Holy one, blessed be He, make proclamation every
day:(As having earned His special approval). A bachelor who lives in a large town without sinning, a poor man who returns lost property to its owner, and a wealthy man who tithes his produce in secret (I.e., without ostentation). R. Safra was a bachelor living in a large town.
Now a tanna recited [R. Johanan's dictum] before Raba and R. Safra, [whereupon] R. Safra's face lit up.
Said Raba to him: it does not mean such as you, but such as R. Hanina and R. Oshaia, who were cobblers in Eretz Yisrael and dwelt in a street of harlots and made shoes for harlots and went in to them (to deliver the shoes): they [the harlots] looked at them, but they [these scholars] would not lift their eyes to look at them, and their [the harlots’] oath was ‘by the life of the holy Rabbis of Eretz Yisrael.
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Im amazed that this story has brought out Haredim bashing in some of the members here.

 Im amazed that you see it that way, since their is no Haredi bashing going on. Show solid examples.

[Dr. Dan]

It's not so much about self control as it is about what that split second of looking at a woman can do to your mind. Like if you look at a beautiful woman on the street, even just a glimpse, it still triggers a thought. That one thought is detrimental. They are in a whole different world, and I think that we shouldn't judge until we are in their shoes (an idea out of Pirkei Avos).

Mo I have no doubt any of them or even you and me would trigger split second thoughts.  Thoughts and feelings are not sins.  Acting upon sinful behavior is the sin.

Religious Jews should never try to outdo Moses.

[The One and Only Mo]

Mo I have no doubt any of them or even you and me would trigger split second thoughts.  Thoughts and feelings are not sins.  Acting upon sinful behavior is the sin.

Religious Jews should never try to outdo Moses.

Incorrect. You're not supposed to think about such things, let alone look at a woman for a split second.

[Dr. Dan]

Incorrect. You're not supposed to think about such things, let alone look at a woman for a split second.

The thoughts are not the sin, my friend.  It's what you do with those thoughts that can be sinful.

[syyuge]

These blurring glasses blur out at a certain distance beyond which the user cannot differentiate between a young girl and a young muslamic terrorist. Obviously these glasses are socialist. 

[The One and Only Mo]

The thoughts are not the sin, my friend.  It's what you do with those thoughts that can be sinful.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1754248/jewish/Is-There-Anything-Wrong-with-Sinful-Thought.htm

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1754248/jewish/Is-There-Anything-Wrong-with-Sinful-Thought.htm

 Sinful thoughts when it comes to sexual things is worse, true. But not thoughts of committing most other sins (maybe besides idolatry). The thought itself is not a sin, unless it is actualized, then the thoughts are put together with the action and counted. This applies for Jews out of G-D's kindness, but a gentiles evil thoughts are counted as are actions since they have a lot less Mitzwoth.
  2 examples- A Jew wants to eat non-kosher, has thoughts about it, but then stops him/her-self. That is not counted as a sin. BUT on the other hand if for example  on a plane they order stake, assuming it to be non-kosher. Eat it thinking as such and then finding out that it is kosher they still committed a sin and are responsible for it.
 On the other hand good thoughts are counted as Mitzwoth. For example someone wanting to do a Mitzwah is credited as such even when being prevented from actually doing it (for example Chaim wanting to be in Israel but being physically prevented from being their still gets the credit).
 Example with non-Jew- if for example one wants to murder (one of 7 Noahide laws), plans it and then is not successful, they still committed a sin.

[The One and Only Mo]

Sinful thoughts when it comes to sexual things is worse, true. But not thoughts of committing most other sins (maybe besides idolatry). The thought itself is not a sin, unless it is actualized, then the thoughts are put together with the action and counted. This applies for Jews out of G-D's kindness, but a gentiles evil thoughts are counted as are actions since they have a lot less Mitzwoth.
  2 examples- A Jew wants to eat non-kosher, has thoughts about it, but then stops him/her-self. That is not counted as a sin. BUT on the other hand if for example  on a plane they order stake, assuming it to be non-kosher. Eat it thinking as such and then finding out that it is kosher they still committed a sin and are responsible for it.
 On the other hand good thoughts are counted as Mitzwoth. For example someone wanting to do a Mitzwah is credited as such even when being prevented from actually doing it (for example Chaim wanting to be in Israel but being physically prevented from being their still gets the credit).
 Example with non-Jew- if for example one wants to murder (one of 7 Noahide laws), plans it and then is not successful, they still committed a sin.

Actually, we are supposed to WANT to commit sins, that is the truth. We get reward for fighting that off. I think about McDonalds all the time. But I know that it is not a great thing to think about lewdness and immodesty , regardless of the action.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Actually, we are supposed to WANT to commit sins, that is the truth. We get reward for fighting that off. I think about McDonalds all the time. But I know that it is not a great thing to think about lewdness and immodesty , regardless of the action.

 I know what you are trying to say and where you got that idea from, but the way you said it is wrong. You got it from Chazal saying that a person should not say I do not want to commit this sin because its ..... but because G-d forbid it. etc.
 That does not mean that you should think about McDonalds all the time. That is a waste of thinking and memory where you can be doing more productive things.

[The One and Only Mo]

I know what you are trying to say and where you got that idea from, but the way you said it is wrong. You got it from Chazal saying that a person should not say I do not want to commit this sin because its ..... but because G-d forbid it. etc.
 That does not mean that you should think about McDonalds all the time. That is a waste of thinking and memory where you can be doing more productive things.

Not all the time, it's an expression. I can't control the thought. Pink elephant.

[Rubystars]

Pink elephant or "yo quiero taco bell?" 

[The One and Only Mo]

Pink elephant or "yo quiero taco bell?" 

That, too.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Im amazed that this story has brought out Haredim bashing in some of the members here. This story has no impact on anyone but them, and it does not demean women {as some here have already alleged}. I stand with Mo on the idea that they are entitled to do whatever it takes to keep their level of avoiding the immodest thoughts. I can appreciate the struggle and fully understand that the eyes can lead a man astray. Does anyone here suggest otherwise? Most men will agree that the thoughts which are brought to mind when a woman who dresses to 'kill' walks by are less than wholesome. It is these thoughts which will lead him to sin at night. It is not the fault of the woman {unless she realizes that she is putting a stumbling block before a man} that he thinks this, it is his responsibility to avoid thinking it.

It should not be a tool to bash Haredim.

Wrong.  It affects all Orthodox Jews, not just "haredim."  Also I do not know where you get these clear delineations from.  How exactly do you define someone as haredi and someone else as definitely 'not haredi' ?   I share many qualities with haredim.  As a Kahanist Jew I am a little bit haredi and a little bit modern orthodox/dati leumi.   Most of my friends that I hang out with are haredi or associate with haredi society, shuls, and schools.   Many of them agree with my hashkafot (life philosophies)!   Some of them do not.   My chassidic friends definitely DO NOT agree with my hashkafot.
But this does affect all orthodox Jews.  We all live together, learn together, and we are all connected, even those of us who do not think alike.

Now, what exactly is haredi bashing here?    If you refer to something specific, then quote that statement and respond to it; explain why it's unacceptable or how what they wrote is wrong.   Don't just make blanket condemnations.   IF you are referring to things I have said (And I have no idea if you are because you just made a general insult to the entire thread without attaching any names to your accusations, so I do not know if you mean everyone in this thread, just a few people, me in particular, or whatever), IF you are accusing me of bashing haredim, that is nothing but disgraceful motzi shem ra because I did nothing of the sort, and if so I am insulted by such pathetic behavior to make a false accusation like that rather than engage the arguments.  Read my arguments again and you will see there is not bashing going on.     Maybe it is YOU who is simply overly defensive at any perceived disagreement with what you think is the haredi way.   If you are NOT referring to me, then fine, take it up with whomever you are accusing.   Making blanket condemnations is not helpful to anything here.

And as I mentioned earlier, it not only affects just the people who do it, but this is how "chumras" get started.   So it can come to affect all of us.    And culturally it represents a pernicious phenomenon, perhaps a growing one, within our circles amongst certain people.    It's a manifestation of a certain way of thought which has totally lost sight of proper priority and perspective.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So just what is being violated by wearing such glasses to avoid seeing things which may be immodest? You are making assumptions that it is dangerous to health... Or do you know otherwise?

1.  It's not "avoiding things which may be immodest."    You haven't understood the issue.   The purpose of the glasses is to AVOID SEEING ANY WOMEN AT ALL.   No matter how modest they are.    Because the purveyors of this "technology" (lol) are inventing their own code of tzniut.   This is the same thing we saw when it was claimed that dati leumi 8 year old girls in RBS who wear long sleaves and skirts down to the ankles (all the requirements of actual halacha) are somehow "immodest."   It's also the same thing I saw in a video where an askan tried to pressure Rav Eliashiv ZT"L into instituting a proclamation on modesty standards (and create official standards and perhaps new ones).    He said he has no authority to do such a thing and he brushed this person off.

2.  It is dangerous to obstruct one's vision.    They are doing so ON PURPOSE.   That is dangerous and does not require any further explanation.    But if you want I can explain how it could lead to danger (already discussed in the thread but I see you haven't read it all or pretend not to).   For example, if a person can't see in front of him, or can't see in the peripheral vision, he might get hit by a car God forbid.    Or maybe he won't see a pole sticking out or he might trip.    All very obvious things.  I'm not making pilpulim here.

3.   I'm pretty sure it erodes the vision over time to wear glasses with an incorrect prescription that produces blurry images.   If I'm wrong, prove it.     If you have nothing (like data, an eye doctor's opinion, etc) to even suggest I'm wrong, why do you insist I am?   Ever consider that I might be right?   I'm pretty sure I am, but not 100% certain about this eye issue.   What I'm claiming seems to make sense.

4.  And lastly by obsessing over this issue (and sex in general) such people are distorting the focus of Judaism and losing sight (no pun intended) of what we are here to do.    While ghetto-minded fools who mistakenly think that seeing a woman's face or modestly dressed woman is ASSUR are obsessing over some eyeglasses and their trip on the local sidewalk, meanwhile the Jewish state is burning to the ground.   And that's only one example.   How about we focus on menshlikeit and mitzvot as Judaism is intended?