What is "Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meumam" group

[muman613]

Yes Dr Dan,

They are very similar to Jewish hippies....

[Dr. Dan]

Yes Dr Dan,

They are very similar to Jewish hippies....

I all for happy Jews who celebrate everyday when they see a miracle..since everything around is a miracle and Gd and perfect.  But there are times to be happy and times to be sad and times to be angry and times to forgive.  It seems to me from my current observation of them, all they want to do is be happy.  But then what will they do during wartime?  Or Gd forbid, death due to enemies winning wars against the Jewish people.  Is it a time to celebrate still?  We can't live with our brains in the clouds 24/7 and not do our part.  We have to use our free will to do our part and do the right thing and everyday is a test by Gd.  And no matter what the outcome is our lifetime for working hard to do our part to be righteous, we can only know that the outcomes from our actions, good or bad, is meant to happen for whatever Gd wanted it to be.  And I think that's where the happy part should be.  Because Gd does things on purpose and for a reason, whether we like it or not, we should be happy that Gd is there and does everything for the best.....i hope that made sense.

[muman613]

I all for happy Jews who celebrate everyday when they see a miracle..since everything around is a miracle and Gd and perfect.  But there are times to be happy and times to be sad and times to be angry and times to forgive.  It seems to me from my current observation of them, all they want to do is be happy.  But then what will they do during wartime?  Or Gd forbid, death due to enemies winning wars against the Jewish people.  Is it a time to celebrate still?  We can't live with our brains in the clouds 24/7 and not do our part.  We have to use our free will to do our part and do the right thing and everyday is a test by Gd.  And no matter what the outcome is our lifetime for working hard to do our part to be righteous, we can only know that the outcomes from our actions, good or bad, is meant to happen for whatever Gd wanted it to be.  And I think that's where the happy part should be.  Because Gd does things on purpose and for a reason, whether we like it or not, we should be happy that Gd is there and does everything for the best.....i hope that made sense.

I think I understand what you are saying. And indeed the Breslevers, at least the more rational ones, realize that there is a need to fight in order to win. Everything is not Happy, Happy as you imply.

But the key thing to concentrate on, from the Breslev perspective, is the concept which Rabbi Nachman taught "Kol HaOlam Kulo, Gesher Tzar Meod" or "Life is a narrow bridge, and the main thing is not to fear at all". The concept means that we must have complete faith in Hashems wisdom in order to merit his intervention of strengthening us against our enemies. This is the Breslov and most Chassidic strategy against all enemies.

As we learn in this weeks Parsha that Hashem is the one who blesses us, and he is also the one who curses us, as evidenced by the Tochacha {Rebuke} in Parasha Ki Tavo.

As with all large movements and groups there are outliers who use the identity for their own purposes, and often projecting a distorted view. While dancing and spreading joy is important there are many other mitzvot which are not always joyous. But again I believe the strength of Breslev is the idea that we should find something joyous in our service of our G-d. Through this {as our portion says} we merit Hashems Divine presence amongst us.

[muman613]

Here is Rabbi Nachmans saying put to music, to the traditional melody we sing on Shabbat to this day..
.

http://www.aish.com/sh/s/48969621.html


The whole world
is a very narrow bridge -
A very narrow bridge.
And the main thing to recall -
is not to be afraid -
not to be afraid at all.

[muman613]

Very timely, very timely indeed... As I mentioned this week we are reading Parasha Ki Tavo, which happens to discuss how important serving Hashem with 'joy' is... Here is an article from Rabbi Kooks Torah...

http://www.ravkooktorah.org/KITAVO61.htm

Ki Tavo: How to Serve God in Joy


"Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and contentment." (Deut. 28:47)

In 5670 (1910), when Rav Kook was chief rabbi of Jaffa, he was asked: how can we inspire ourselves to worship God in joy and enthusiasm?

In his response, Rav Kook wrote:

It is difficult to briefly explain this fundamental aspect of serving God. The main inspiration for people like me is to set aside considerable time for thorough study of the spiritual parts of Torah, and not let it be cast aside for occasional reading. With such study, the light of the soul shines, and a spirit of happiness and vigor electrifies the heart that sincerely seeks out the truth.

Benefiting the Universe

Nonetheless, I will not withhold the benefit of establishing one important principle, although this too cannot be fully understood without much study and reflection. Still, it will provide a vehicle for the desire to attain the trait of loving God and sensing the light of our holy Torah.

It is manifest that even the basest individual would be thrilled to perform good deeds joyfully and energetically if he felt that his actions would benefit the entire universe, with all its infinite worlds. Indolence and enervation stem solely from doubting the extent of the good that we truly perform for all of creation, through our Torah study, mitzvot, Divine service, and refinement of character traits. For this purpose, God enlightened us with the writings of the holiest tzadikim, masters of the Kabbala. They enhanced our understanding of the preciousness of serving God, and how our service can uplift all of existence in all its aspects.

Yet, this idea needs to be brought closer to the intellect, so that the inspiration will be powerful and the joy will be well founded.

The Collective Soul of Creation

This mental image is achieved by contemplating the concept of 'spiritual oneness.' That is to say, the light of each individual soul is connected to the collective soul of all existence. All created things draw the light of their perfection from this collective soul. We have the power to increase the light in our souls at all times through Torah, wisdom, mitzvot, prayer, and character refinement. If we recognize that any time we enlighten our own souls, that we are benefiting not just ourselves but all of existence, then we can bestow perfection and life to all things.

Through us, the righteous are granted greater power in their service of God. The evil of the wicked becomes moderated and mitigated to some extent. Thoughts of penitence come to them. Even the animals are ennobled, in accordance with their level. Through the beautiful holiness that is added by one soul that truly cares about all of existence, even those creatures that tend to attack and damage are refined. And certainly great light is added to the sublime splendor of the souls, and in all levels of the spiritual worlds, boundless in their beauty and sanctity.

(Adapted from Igrot HaRe'iyah vol. I, letter 301)

[edu]

I refer the reader to another discussion about Na Nach Nachma on JTF
Although I have not done a survey what percentage of this group holds
that there dead leader is messiah.
I also saw posters much worse (more blatantly false messianic) than the one I posted here. But I did not have a camera with me or a place to upload those pictures to.
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,61713.0.html
A final note originally I posted a link to a photo to back up my point, but when I came back to JTF
the photo link failed to appear in my browser
so instead I refer the reader to http://nanachcartoon.blogspot.co.il/2011/09/blog-post_06.html#!/2011/09/blog-post_06.html as proof. Of course, I don't know how long the web site I refer to will continue to exist.

[muman613]

Edu,

What you bring up is not representative of the majority of the Breslever community. Even you are aware of that.

I don't know much about Nah Nach Nachman breslevers except for the fact that they seem very devoted to spreading the message of Chassidus. I have never heard from any Breslev Rabbi I respect that they are Moshiach, or believe that a living Rebbe today is Moshiach.

False messianism is a bad thing and no sane Jew believes that their Rebbe is Moshiach. As I have said many times there is the possibility that a person alive today may be Moshiach, of this I have absolute faith. And you should also be aware that Moshiach could come with the drop of a hat. This is from the Talmud, not the Kabbalah.

[Debbie Shafer]

Very interesting. I like hearing about things that are going on in Israel and what is happening at this time in history.

[Yerusha]

The teachings of Rav Nachman are very potent and appeal to a certain type of Israeli Baal Teshuvah. Usually ones who have a real teshuvah to make ie former druggies, gangsters, robbers, launderers, molesters, thugs and even murderers. And of all the Breslov strands, that of Rav Odesser's Nanachism appeals to them the most
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisroel_Ber_Odesser



A former thug who's done a real Torah teshuvah is the best type of fellow to have on your side, and of all the Haredim, the NaNachs are the closest to Kahanism (unlike Chabad who today are all talk but no action), frequently being in the forefront of beating up Arabs, "Price Tag" daubings, and forcefully entering Yosef Hatzaddik's Tomb in Shchem and Yehoshua's in Yericho, usually being arrested & shot at for their efforts.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I'm not quite sure how to take that post Yerusha? Oh! I got it, your bashing Kahanists, Na Nach, and Chabad!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

But they are true Jews.  True Jews who have truly gone astray.

Are you aware of what they think about repeating that phrase and why they say it?    Come on, now, stop playing naive.   These dudes are wacko.

Real Breslaver's are fine.   
And also many non-Breslav Jews (many in the settlements who aren't even chassidim) are interested in Rebbe Nachman's teachings and delve into them.     
But the messianic guys with the catch phrases are a cult.   If you can't handle that, then don't read the thread.

Why don't you tell me what sin they are committing?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

But they are true Jews.  True Jews who have truly gone astray.

Are you aware of what they think about repeating that phrase and why they say it?    Come on, now, stop playing naive.   These dudes are wacko.

Real Breslaver's are fine.   
And also many non-Breslav Jews (many in the settlements who aren't even chassidim) are interested in Rebbe Nachman's teachings and delve into them.     
But the messianic guys with the catch phrases are a cult.   If you can't handle that, then don't read the thread.

From what I found is their Rebbe got a letter from Rebbe Nachman that by quadrupling his name is the same as the song of songs. Which will bring the redemption.

I have seen some say he is the messiah. But once again what is the problem with thinking someone might be the messiah? As long as your not praying to them and worshiping them?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Edu,

What you bring up is not representative of the majority of the Breslever community.

That's because he's talking about the na nach's.  Which is what this thread is about.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

From what I found is their Rebbe got a letter from Rebbe Nachman that by quadrupling his name is the same as the song of songs. Which will bring the redemption.

I have seen some say he is the messiah. But once again what is the problem with thinking someone might be the messiah? As long as your not praying to them and worshiping them?

 

HE'S A DEAD PERSON!