Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Asking advice of Tzaddik (* What NOT to do)
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Ephraim on October 23, 2012, 12:58:15 PM ---Serious question... Rambam lived in the 1100's, were there other Torah scholars before him that spoke about the minim? Rambam was a man, so why does his teachings of oral law override the others before him, that's if they do? I hope this doesn't come off rude!
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Rambam gets his halacha from the Talmud. Jews follow the Talmud because it's the embodiment of the other part of Torah (Oral Torah) which was given along with written Torah.
He quoted Rambam's opinion about the destruction of the Temple, not about minim. So your question was unclear. However, we can quote Rambam about minim too if you like.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 24, 2012, 12:25:08 AM ---Rambam gets his halacha from the Talmud. Jews follow the Talmud because it's the embodiment of the other part of Torah (Oral Torah) which was given along with written Torah.
He quoted Rambam's opinion about the destruction of the Temple, not about minim. So your question was unclear. However, we can quote Rambam about minim too if you like.
--- End quote ---
I believe I reproduced it above...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,64653.msg565775.html#msg565775
See also:
--- Quote ---http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/911896/jewish/Chapter-Three.htm
Halacha 7
Five individuals are described as Minim:
a) one who says there is no God nor ruler of the world;
b) one who accepts the concept of a ruler, but maintains that there are two or more;
c) one who accepts that there is one Master [of the world], but maintains that He has a body or form;
d) one who maintains that He was not the sole First Being and Creator of all existence;
e) one who serves a star, constellation, or other entity so that it will serve as an intermediary between him and the eternal Lord.
Each of these five individuals is a Min.
--- End quote ---
Ephraim Ben Noach:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 24, 2012, 12:25:08 AM ---Rambam gets his halacha from the Talmud. Jews follow the Talmud because it's the embodiment of the other part of Torah (Oral Torah) which was given along with written Torah.
He quoted Rambam's opinion about the destruction of the Temple, not about minim. So your question was unclear. However, we can quote Rambam about minim too if you like.
--- End quote ---
KWRBT, I was talking about two different things. What I'm wondering is if Rambams interpretation of the Talmud may have been influenced by the times in which he lived, or he was competing with other Jewish scholars, and he didn't know anything about astrology or Kabbalah, therefore he put a negative spin on it.
Just a thought...
muman613:
--- Quote from: Ephraim on October 24, 2012, 07:38:27 PM --- KWRBT, I was talking about two different things. What I'm wondering is if Rambams interpretation of the Talmud may have been influenced by the times in which he lived, or he was competing with other Jewish scholars, and he didn't know anything about astrology or Kabbalah, therefore he put a negative spin on it.
Just a thought...
--- End quote ---
I have said this a million times in the forum. A JEW is NOT to put his trust in the stars, no matter if the Astrology is real or imagined. The issue, according to my understanding, is that the Talmud implies that there is something to the effect the stars have on events. This is evident in the Torah in the story of Exodus where the Pharaoh consulted his astrologer and it was predicted that the Jewish redeemer would be born, and they knew his downfall would be caused by water, so they threw all the Jewish boys into the Nile.
The reason we are commanded to not consult astrology is because Jews are supposed to believe that we are not influenced by the MAZAL (Constellations) because HASHEM is the ultimate source of everything, so even if the MAZAL indicates a bad omen a Jew should pray to Hashem to over-turn the bad mazal (sometimes translated as luck).
The idolatrous cults established the heavenly bodies as something to pay homage and worship to. Judaism rejects this practice because Hashem has made his will known through the giving of the Torah to the Jewish people. He has told us to ignore the stars as signs and place our entire trust in him.
muman613:
http://ohr.edu/ask/ask044.txt
--- Quote ---The word Mazal does not literally mean "luck." "Mazal" is literally associated with the 12 signs of the Zodiac, which are called the "Mazalot," but we use the word in a way which means more than just the Zodiac. Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto explains that there is a multi-leveled conceptual system through which G-d interacts with the physical Creation. In other words, "energy" which originates with Hashem travels through this system and eventually reaches us. At some point along the way, this energy is said to pass through the Mazalot, the stars and the planets, which then transfer it to the rest of Creation. This explains how people trained in astrology may know what will happen to an individual in the future. They are "reading," through the configuration of the Mazalot, the energy that is yet to be delivered. However, we are actually forbidden to engage in the prediction of the future via astrology even though it may work. The source of this prohibition is, "You shall be tamim (pure, perfect, simple) with the L-rd your G-d."
The Talmud cites three life-issues which are directly affected by the Mazalot: life, children and livelihood. Elsewhere the Talmud seems to contradict this and states that "There is no Mazal regarding the Jewish People." The classical sources explain this to mean that the influence of Mazalot can be overcome by the Jewish People through prayer and other great merits.
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