My mind is telling me to stay out of this, but my body is saying "Yes, jump in".
Why does Tag(whatever_on_earth_that_means) think you misrepresent rabbi Kahane by supporting Breivik, and do you think killing leftists that want to destroy Israel is a worthy cause?
Tag, why do you think he is not being truthful to the good rabbi's legacy, and why do you consider support of Breivik's actions immature?
Also, what constitutes someone being part of the movement? Am I not a part of this?
LKZ,
I have indicated that there are various levels of enemies. Our first enemies are the arabs who are openly trying to kill us. Their supporters are also guilty. But the issue is that those who this nut killed were not directly involved in killing Jews. Their involvement was not clearly demanding death. We do not go and kill everyone who hates Jews, that is what the muslims do, and we are not commanded to do so. We are commanded to defend ourselves, and to ensure that we can live in peace. But there is no need to kill children, even if they may be indoctrinated with ideas which run counter to our beliefs.
What is very disturbing about this guy is that he seemed to be deluded into thinking he was acting on behalf of the Knights of Templar, which seems like a delusion to me. He never was able to prove any such organization existed, and this is another reason to put him in the category of lunatic. That he killed his own people indicates he had misplaced anger, because killing your own people only makes you an enemy of your nation. For example, was McVeigh who engineered the Oklahoma City bombing, was never really a hero even if he felt it justified because of 'Ruby Ridge' or whatever his excuse was. That McVeigh was responsible for killing the children who were in the building, he was worthy of receiving the death penalty.
Who is a valid target, who is not a valid target? I was told by a person I worked with many years ago he would believe that there are no innocent victims, and in a discussion about 9/11 he said that all who worked in the WTC were valid targets {of which my brother worked in the building}. I do not think that civilians should be considered valid targets, unless they are being used as a human shield for evil purposes.
I will bring another point which may be open for discussion. Last Shabbat, yesterday, we read the story of Ishmael being evicted from the house of our father Abraham and Sarahs home. At this point in the narrative Hagar and Ishmael end up in the desert and their food and water ran out, thus plunging them into dispair which led Hagar to put the sick Ishmael under a bush and wait for him to die. At this point Hashem sends an Angel of the L-rd to inform Hagar that Ishmael will not die, that a stream of water would appear to her, and that Ishmael would be a mighty nation.
The question which our sages ask, and as is explained in a Medresh, is why was Ishmael allowed to live at all? Considering how much trouble the descendents of the wicked Ishmael would be, how much trouble and opression they would cause the Jewish people, why was he allowed to live? It was known he was a 'bad apple' that he was drawn to idolatry, to sexual immorality, and even to murder. So why would Hashem send an Angel of mercy to save Ishmael?
Genesis 21:17
And G-d heard the voice of the lad (Ishmael) and an angel of G-d called to Hagar from the Heavens and said to her 'What is the matter, Hagar? Fear not for G-d has as heard the voice of the lad, as he is there.
RASHI
As he is there: Rashi: According to his actions that he does now is he judged., and not according to what he is destined to do in the future. . Because the ministering angels were arguing against (Ishmael) and saying 'Master of the universe, he (Ishmael ) whose offspring are destined to kill Your sons with thirst (lack of water), will You cause a well to rise up for him? And He answered them: At the present moment, what is he righteous or evil? They answered 'Righteous' So He said to them 'According to his deeds at the present time I judge him.' That is the meaning of the words "as he is (Now) there."
Why I bring this? Because my point is that these were mainly young men and women who had not actually done anything, even though they may have done something in the future, this is not a reason to kill them at this time. This is why I find it wrong to consider these as targets.
