A Topic that went badly wrong (formerly called a reminder of the forum rules)

[Shlomo]

Cyrizian, responding with a death threat over killing muslims is... beyond hypocritical.

The Bible commands the Jewish people to kill those who try to kill us. We try for peace multiple times and if it does not succeed, then there will never be peace and we are commanded to defend ourselves. Why? Because they never wanted peace to begin with. The muslims want world domination. This is not some extermination for the sake of race or religion (like the evil nazi hitler). Wake up, man! It's self defense!

What's the point? To save as many human lives as possible. When a group of people rise up together and shout "DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO ISRAEL!", they aren't just kidding around or teasing. THEY MEAN IT.

So if you just let the muslims kill more and more people... then how can we answer to G-d when they kill innocent people in the name of jihad and their sick koran? How do you answer to that? We have to answer for what we do (and what we fail to do) someday. If someone broke into your home and tried to kill your family and you did nothing... how would you be able to live with yourself? We are commanded to love one another as we love ourselves - with the exception of evil people. Show compassion on the right people, Cyrizian. If you are kind to the cruel, you will eventually be cruel to the kind.

How many people, if (G-d forbid) they thought their child had died but, later, found out it was someone else who died, wouldn't celebrate? But if we were truly righteous, we would weep for others as if it was our own - because we would feel their pain (like Hashem does). We have to stop the murder. But this doesn't mean we weep for those who want MURDER and have murder embedded into their souls! Should we just allow this cycle?

So are we supposed to just do nothing and let the murder continue? I we destroyed islam, how many countless lives of good people would it save in the end? I know this is going to sound harsh to you... but remember that the Bible told us to wipe out entire groups of people! Is G-d wrong? No, of course not!

Mohammad was a desert warrior who forced his evil religion by penalty of death. This is an insane religion with one purpose... to DESTROY. There are some people who you cannot save. To think you can save them is ignorant and arrogant. You think they want you to save them? Their entire lives (and egos) are invested and their minds are poisoned beyond repair from birth.

Do I like the idea of killing people? G-d forbid!! I have respect for human life! But we CANNOT allow an evil death cult to destroy the planet because they want eternal sex with virgins.

I'm sorry, but when an entire nation of people band together for our destruction, someone has to go... and I'd rather it be evil, jealous, lazy, hate-filled, violent, racist nazis who have brought nothing to this world other than suffering and death than the chosen people who have done so much for this planet in every area of science, culture, religion, philosophy, and have been a light unto the nations... or the righteous gentiles who have worked so hard to contribute to the world in countless ways.

There are no moderate muslims. There are some so-called "muslims" who are not really muslim by definition of the koran. You cannot be a true muslim and follow the koran if your forsake jihad. It is a sick and evil religion that has no place in a civilized world. Someday... we WILL have to do something about it. This is not going to go away and, eventual, there will be a confrontation. To deny this is naive and ignorant. That's the mistake our corrupt governments have made.

Cyrizian, if you ever threaten another person on this forum, I will ban you immediately. I am not playing around with this. I'm still considering it so you are not off the hook. The ONLY reason you are not already banned is because of the relationship we have with you in the forum. I will never allow the lives of the members to be threatened. I'm waiting for you to respond with a complete apology. If you do not, then I have no choice but to ban you from this forum forever. I cannot be more clear.

Muck, you helped start this mess and instigated a fight. If you do not get control of your anger and tongue, you will not be a part of this forum. G-d forbid if I let a single person destroy the UNITY of this group because they enjoy insulting for the sake of insults. This is NOT how G-d wants us to behave. G-d does not approve of us using foul language, things that give the appearance of evil (like mooning), or a person who tempts others to anger.

Lubab, thank you for your wisdom and council. You did the right thing 100%! I thought about you earlier today and was glad we had a forum Rabbi and my respect goes out to you. We all need more Torah and you are a light in this forum.

I am unlocking this thread and awaiting an apology. Due to the circumstances, any post that is off topic will be immediately removed.

[Cyrizian]

Firstly, I want to apologize to Jeffguy. I know this has caused you considerable trouble and I want you to know I never meant for that to happen. You have been very just in your actions.

Secondly, there are some members of this forum that, frankly, scare me - and will scare future potential members as well. But I am willing to put aside my grievances with them for the sake of the movement. I know that unity is all important here and is the only way we will accomplish our goals. I know that there are muslims that have to be killed, I have never disputed that fact. But there is a line that I cannot cross called "belief in the total extermination of muslims." I will not approve of mass murder. As long as this movement does not cross that line, I am with you forever and I am willing to make sacrifices to that end.

And here is my first sacrifice:

I apologize to JTF for breaking the forum rules and threatening (in whatever capacity) another member of this forum.

If you still decide to ban me, Jeffguy, I want you to know that you have been a good friend to me and I have enjoyed my time here.

Cyrizian

[Joe Schmo]

Firstly, I want to apologize to Jeffguy. I know this has caused you considerable trouble and I want you to know I never meant for that to happen. You have been very just in your actions.

Secondly, there are some members of this forum that, frankly, scare me - and will scare future potential members as well. But I am willing to put aside my grievances with them for the sake of the movement. I know that unity is all important here and is the only way we will accomplish our goals. I know that there are muslims that have to be killed, I have never disputed that fact. But there is a line that I cannot cross called "belief in the total extermination of muslims." I will not approve of mass murder. As long as this movement does not cross that line, I am with you forever and I am willing to make sacrifices to that end.

And here is my first sacrifice:

I apologize to JTF for breaking the forum rules and threatening (in whatever capacity) another member of this forum.

If you still decide to ban me, Jeffguy, I want you to know that you have been a good friend to me and I have enjoyed my time here.

Cyrizian

Bravo.

[newman]

In defense of Muck:

These problems that occasionally arise are not instigated by Muck or myself. They are instigated by a the same 1 or 2 christians every time.
And before you accuse me of attacking christians, let me point out that we have heaps of christians on this forum who cause no problems at all.
What these 1 or 2 individuals are doing is proselytising by stealth.

What is proelytising by stealth? Read their posts and you will see. These people know full well that they can't come on here and demand we accept 'that man' as Messiach. So instead, they take an underhand sneaky way of doing the same thing by insisting that we accept NT philosophies that are contrary to Torah. Take the trouble to read over their posts if you don't believe me. By declaring that G-d requies us to bless our enemies, turn the other cheek, love evil doers or anything else advocated by 'that man' in the NT (and all of which is the complete opposite of Torah) is nothing but PROSELYTISING BY STEALTH.

Everyone is free to follow the theology of his/her choice. HOWEVER, this is a JEWISH- TORAH forum. If certain individuals are going to insist on the rest of us adhering to heretical, anti-Torah, anti-Jewish BS then they should expect righteous Jews like Muck to challenge them. Muck is absolutely right to do so. All righteous people be they Jew or christian must unite in common cause, but there can be no quarter given to any attempt at proselytising no matter how subtle or sneaky. NT/ christian doctrine cannot be elevated over Jewish Torah principles.

I seek a clear ruling once and for all.

[ftf]

newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?

[newman]

newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?

No need.........I AM the mad axe-wielder.

[ftf]

newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?

No need.........I AM the mad axe-wielder.

I'm also guessing that you never drink or eat anything that you haven't prepared yourself, and bought the ingredients for yourself? While I'm at it, I presume you never open your post for fear of letter bombs?

[newman]

newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?

No need.........I AM the mad axe-wielder.

I'm also guessing that you never drink or eat anything that you haven't prepared yourself, and bought the ingredients for yourself? While I'm at it, I presume you never open your post for fear of letter bombs?

What's the matter, ftf?

Got a bee up your skirt because someone's on to your caper?

[Muck DeFuslims]

Thanks for the defense Newman.

I appreciate that.

But it's not really necessary.

Honestly, this has nothing to do with proselytising in this particular instance.

I've already sent Jeffguy a private message detailing my version of what's occurred in this thread. I'm sure other posters can review the thread and come to their own conclusions as to who instigated what, the use of insults, foul language, etc. It's all there for anyone to see.

As far as Cyrizian's 'apology', I notice he apologized to Jeffguy and to JTF but not to the people he threatened to 'put a bullet in the head' of.

Kind of like when moooozies condemn their terrorism against Israelis, not because they have any genuine remorse, but because it harms the Paleostinkian cause.

Not that any apology is necessary as far as I'm concerned, because Cyrizian putting a bullet in my head is as likely to happen as his premise that Arabs will no longer be enemies of the Jews sometime soon.

But thanks for having my back Newman.

I appreciate it and you can count on me having yours too. 

[ftf]

newman: the idea that I was alluding to is that you are paranoid and are seeing threats that aren't there.

Muck: If you re-read Cyrizians posts, he only said that he would kill you if you were about to murder a lot of muslims without first doing anything to check that they were real muslims. Now, I tthink Cyrizian went too far in saying that he would kill you, but surely killing a lot of people who were muslims by name only would be wrong?

Cyrizian: Try and stay calm, don't post while angry or you may regret what you say later.

[Muck DeFuslims]

newman: the idea that I was alluding to is that you are paranoid and are seeing threats that aren't there.

Muck: If you re-read Cyrizians posts, he only said that he would kill you if you were about to murder a lot of muslims without first doing anything to check that they were real muslims. Now, I tthink Cyrizian went too far in saying that he would kill you, but surely killing a lot of people who were muslims by name only would be wrong?

Cyrizian: Try and stay calm, don't post while angry or you may regret what you say later.

That's great ftf, I'll make sure to ask them if they're real muslims before I 'murder' them. I wouldn't want to risk Cyrizian pumping bullets into my skull.

[ftf]

I think it would be far better to take them all to internment camps.

[Muck DeFuslims]

OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them. 

[ftf]

OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them. 

In my opinion it would be utterly impossible to determine who is and isn't a real muslim accurately, for that reason I would advocate putting all muslims in camps which they would be allowed to leave only after having proved for definite that they were not muslims, possibly by smiling while burning a quran.

[newman]

OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them. 

In my opinion it would be utterly impossible to determine who is and isn't a real muslim accurately, for that reason I would advocate putting all muslims in camps which they would be allowed to leave only after having proved for definite that they were not muslims, possibly by smiling while burning a quran.

 

Ever heard of taqqiya? A terrorist has permission from the mullahs and imams to eat a pork chop and drink vodka for the sake of his cause. They will gladly burn a koran to fool a fool.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Smiling while burning the Queeran, huh ?

The barbarity !

Oh, the inhumanity !

I like it.

But I still wouldn't trust 'em.

[ftf]

OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them. 

In my opinion it would be utterly impossible to determine who is and isn't a real muslim accurately, for that reason I would advocate putting all muslims in camps which they would be allowed to leave only after having proved for definite that they were not muslims, possibly by smiling while burning a quran.

 

Ever heard of taqqiya? A terrorist has permission from the mullahs and imams to eat a pork chop and drink vodka for the sake of his cause. They will gladly burn a koran to fool a fool.

I really doubt it, did you know that a member of al'quaeda gave names of other members under threat of being forced to have a bath if he didn't?

[aC23]

In defense of Muck:

These problems that occasionally arise are not instigated by Muck or myself. They are instigated by a the same 1 or 2 christians every time.
And before you accuse me of attacking christians, let me point out that we have heaps of christians on this forum who cause no problems at all.
What these 1 or 2 individuals are doing is proselytising by stealth.

What is proelytising by stealth? Read their posts and you will see. These people know full well that they can't come on here and demand we accept 'that man' as Messiach. So instead, they take an underhand sneaky way of doing the same thing by insisting that we accept NT philosophies that are contrary to Torah. Take the trouble to read over their posts if you don't believe me. By declaring that G-d requies us to bless our enemies, turn the other cheek, love evil doers or anything else advocated by 'that man' in the NT (and all of which is the complete opposite of Torah) is nothing but PROSELYTISING BY STEALTH.

Everyone is free to follow the theology of his/her choice. HOWEVER, this is a JEWISH- TORAH forum. If certain individuals are going to insist on the rest of us adhering to heretical, anti-Torah, anti-Jewish BS then they should expect righteous Jews like Muck to challenge them. Muck is absolutely right to do so. All righteous people be they Jew or christian must unite in common cause, but there can be no quarter given to any attempt at proselytizing no matter how subtle or sneaky. NT/ christian doctrine cannot be elevated over Jewish Torah principles.

I seek a clear ruling once and for all.

I didn't notice this but it's irrelevant: anyone who doesn't have a half-brain to tell right from wrong (in this case, not falling for "stealth proselytizing") is probably just a mindless sheep that would fall for anything.

[newman]

In defense of Muck:

These problems that occasionally arise are not instigated by Muck or myself. They are instigated by a the same 1 or 2 christians every time.
And before you accuse me of attacking christians, let me point out that we have heaps of christians on this forum who cause no problems at all.
What these 1 or 2 individuals are doing is proselytising by stealth.

What is proelytising by stealth? Read their posts and you will see. These people know full well that they can't come on here and demand we accept 'that man' as Messiach. So instead, they take an underhand sneaky way of doing the same thing by insisting that we accept NT philosophies that are contrary to Torah. Take the trouble to read over their posts if you don't believe me. By declaring that G-d requies us to bless our enemies, turn the other cheek, love evil doers or anything else advocated by 'that man' in the NT (and all of which is the complete opposite of Torah) is nothing but PROSELYTISING BY STEALTH.

Everyone is free to follow the theology of his/her choice. HOWEVER, this is a JEWISH- TORAH forum. If certain individuals are going to insist on the rest of us adhering to heretical, anti-Torah, anti-Jewish BS then they should expect righteous Jews like Muck to challenge them. Muck is absolutely right to do so. All righteous people be they Jew or christian must unite in common cause, but there can be no quarter given to any attempt at proselytizing no matter how subtle or sneaky. NT/ christian doctrine cannot be elevated over Jewish Torah principles.

I seek a clear ruling once and for all.

I didn't notice this but it's irrelevant: anyone who doesn't have a half-brain to tell right from wrong (in this case, not falling for "stealth proselytizing") is probably just a mindless sheep that would fall for anything.

Whether anyone falls for it is not the point. The fact is it's being done. Then when someone challenges it, they get accused of driving wedges. This activity should not be attempted in the first place.

BTW: Nobody IS falling for it.

[ftf]

newman, you are incredibly paranoid, you are seeing things that are most definately not there.

[Cyrizian]

I am starting to believe that newman thinks the whole world is out to (somehow stealthily) get him...

[newman]

I am starting to believe that newman thinks the whole world is out to (somehow stealthily) get him...

You have been warned by a moderator about proselytising by stealth on another thread some weeks back, Abdul. Has that slipped your memory??

[ftf]

newman, there is no member here called Abdul. I believe that tyhis topic is contributing nothing possitive to the forum, therefore, locked.

[Shlomo]

I apologize to JTF for breaking the forum rules and threatening (in whatever capacity) another member of this forum.

Cyrizian, thank you for your apology. I am glad it worked out this way. It showed a lot of maturity and humility that you decided to handle it this way. Please be careful in the future because I can't hold out like I did this time. I know you understand.

Muck, I was too hard on you. It was almost 3am and I was very unhappy about this thread. Your sarcasm towards people you are upset with is partially what I was referring to but you did not use foul language and your "moon" comment was a joke based on turn the other cheek.

The fighting that has continued in here has shown me that there are still hurt feelings. This is to be expected. You should all forgive. This will make things right with Hashem and He will bless our forum for it. We cannot be forgiven if we do not forgive... we all lose our tempters sometimes.

I do not wish for this bickering to continue so I am locking the thread. I really do care about everyone that was involved (if you really only knew) and I'm glad this is over. Now lets go fight some muslim nazis.