To Chaim and the forum.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

shalom Chaim,

 I am writing this to say that I am leaving the forum and will not continue to read or participate in the  discussions being said here. I find many of the things said by someone extremely vile and promotion of anti-Jewish bias and promotion of Jew-hatred. I cannot believe that this is tolerated on a forum that claims to follow the teachings of Rabbi Kahane ZTL HYD, while Jews are told to keep their mouth shut about even being proud of Judaism and such things are REMOVED. I do not see how Rabbi Kahane ZTL HYD would ever stand for such things and the impression that I get from his writings are the love of all Jews and the promotion of Jews and Judaism.

 goodbye.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

What? What are you doing?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He is mad that I attacked the Satmar cult.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It is sad that you would leave.    I honestly don't understand your point of view.

[Every Jew AK47]

Tag Mehir.. I have a feeling this post is against me..

Oy vey .


Listen, I, myself, am begging you not to leave this forum.  You are a very educated and knowledgeable Jewish person and you are an asset to JTF.  That is another reason why I had to intervene in the last thread.  You and Muman, Bachamal are very well versed in Torah and Judaic Law and you have a major influence.  What you guys say will shake people up, much more than any of us, as you have so much knowledge of the religion.   That is why, when I saw some comments I felt could hurt the feelings of some non-Jews I had to step in.  DO you realize how important people like you are here?  But, do you also realize how important it is that we reconcile Gentiles and have them support Israel and the Jewish people which are being attacked right now by Islamic and Communist/Socialist Fascists?

You have a short fuse , just like myself.  We probably are closely related.. LOL..   I am asking you Tag-Mehir to try to understand the situation we are facing.   Take a few moments to breathe, relax and think.

I'd say more but I don't want to get myself into trouble.   Maybe it is best Chaim chimes in when he has time.   

Tag-Mehir you are a brother to me and the last thing we must do is destroy this relationship.  We are family and if the family makes war with one another, then the enemies have less work to do.

I threatened to leave myself earlier because I felt upset, but now I see I also made some mistakes, even though I had good intentions.  Let us try to work these things out.  If we keep fighting ourselves we will eventually find ourselves all alone in this world.   

If you want to hate me, fine do so.  But I would hope you can contribute your knowledge about Judaism and as well as demonstrate your vigilance and pride of being a Jew..  I want you to be vigilant, proud and do all you can to show the glory of Israel and the Jewish people.  But, you need to take a few moments to think about a few things.  If we promote ourselves at the expense of other people, rather than win the support and respect of other people, all we will do is make more enemies which will go against the goal of helping to empower the nation of Israel and the Jewish people.   

I live around a lot of gentiles and grew up with them.  I understand how they think and I also know ways to win their support. 

Don't think for one moment that I think we should ever cave in or degrade our own religion or culture.  Never!  On the contrary, anybody who wants to make war with the Jewish people and Israel should be crushed! 

But, remember, let us not attack our friends, only our enemies!

[Dr. Dan]

I disagree with you, tag.  Actually rabbi kahane would have done the same as Chaim and even slapped you across the face for not showing wisdom.

Sometimes it's right to die a martyr, but it makes no sense if you will never be remembered for it or if it is in the hands of an enemy that nobody knows about.

There are times to say what was said and times and places where it is inappropriate. Quite frankly you will never amount to what Chaim has done in a lifetime for the Jewish people.

If I were you, I would reconsider your hasty and immature decision and stay on this forum and humble yourself.

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

Don't go, man. You're one of us. And you have an interesting way of transliterating Hebrew into English

[muman613]

He is mad that I attacked the Satmar cult.

NO I believe he has the same issue with some of your posts which I have had issue with. A Jew is supposed to have Ahavat Yisrael, and to give the benefit of the doubt to other Jews. You are not a Jew and can never understand this (unless you halachically convert). We are also commanded to not curse another Jew (within the parameters which Chaim has explained several times). Chaim is a scholar and a gentleman and I have never heard him curse any Jew unless his crimes against the Jewish people are stark. I have heard him rebuke many Jews and this is what a Jew should do, rebuke first before holding a grudge and having hatred in the heart.

It is hard for a Jew to keep these commandments when constantly on JTF we read about this Jew, or that Jew, who is a wicked vile piece of excrement burning in gehinnom which DBF posts every week (or every day). I understand Tags feeling but I am able to tune out the things which I believe violate the very basic rules of Jewish law.

I am sorry that Tag feels that he has to go. There is only one member who regularly makes these kinds of posts and I have been dealing with him for about six years. I also try to understand where he is coming from and even think I can give him the benefit of the doubt on occasions...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I second the requests for you to stay here, Tag Mechir.

But at the same time if you don't want to be here, then you won't and that's that.   

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Tag Mehir.. I have a feeling this post is against me..

Oy vey .


Listen, I, myself, am begging you not to leave this forum.  You are a very educated and knowledgeable Jewish person and you are an asset to JTF.  That is another reason why I had to intervene in the last thread.  You and Muman, Bachamal are very well versed in Torah and Judaic Law and you have a major influence.  What you guys say will shake people up, much more than any of us, as you have so much knowledge of the religion.   That is why, when I saw some comments I felt could hurt the feelings of some non-Jews I had to step in.  DO you realize how important people like you are here?  But, do you also realize how important it is that we reconcile Gentiles and have them support Israel and the Jewish people which are being attacked right now by Islamic and Communist/Socialist Fascists?

You have a short fuse , just like myself.  We probably are closely related.. LOL..   I am asking you Tag-Mehir to try to understand the situation we are facing.   Take a few moments to breathe, relax and think.

I'd say more but I don't want to get myself into trouble.   Maybe it is best Chaim chimes in when he has time.   

Tag-Mehir you are a brother to me and the last thing we must do is destroy this relationship.  We are family and if the family makes war with one another, then the enemies have less work to do.

I threatened to leave myself earlier because I felt upset, but now I see I also made some mistakes, even though I had good intentions.  Let us try to work these things out.  If we keep fighting ourselves we will eventually find ourselves all alone in this world.   

If you want to hate me, fine do so.  But I would hope you can contribute your knowledge about Judaism and as well as demonstrate your vigilance and pride of being a Jew..  I want you to be vigilant, proud and do all you can to show the glory of Israel and the Jewish people.  But, you need to take a few moments to think about a few things.  If we promote ourselves at the expense of other people, rather than win the support and respect of other people, all we will do is make more enemies which will go against the goal of helping to empower the nation of Israel and the Jewish people.   

I live around a lot of gentiles and grew up with them.  I understand how they think and I also know ways to win their support. 

Don't think for one moment that I think we should ever cave in or degrade our own religion or culture.  Never!  On the contrary, anybody who wants to make war with the Jewish people and Israel should be crushed! 

But, remember, let us not attack our friends, only our enemies!

The post is about me.

[Every Jew AK47]

The post is about me.

Oh ok.. I was getting worried for a moment..  Nothing like guilt..


Oh yeah, sorry ChaimFan that Tag has beef with you..


Muman.. You say we are not allowed to curse another Jew, does that include Diane Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg? 

[briann]

Tag Mehir.. I have a feeling this post is against me..

Oy vey .


Listen, I, myself, am begging you not to leave this forum.  You are a very educated and knowledgeable Jewish person and you are an asset to JTF.  That is another reason why I had to intervene in the last thread.  You and Muman, Bachamal are very well versed in Torah and Judaic Law and you have a major influence.  What you guys say will shake people up, much more than any of us, as you have so much knowledge of the religion.   That is why, when I saw some comments I felt could hurt the feelings of some non-Jews I had to step in.  DO you realize how important people like you are here?  But, do you also realize how important it is that we reconcile Gentiles and have them support Israel and the Jewish people which are being attacked right now by Islamic and Communist/Socialist Fascists?

You have a short fuse , just like myself.  We probably are closely related.. LOL..   I am asking you Tag-Mehir to try to understand the situation we are facing.   Take a few moments to breathe, relax and think.

I'd say more but I don't want to get myself into trouble.   Maybe it is best Chaim chimes in when he has time.   

Tag-Mehir you are a brother to me and the last thing we must do is destroy this relationship.  We are family and if the family makes war with one another, then the enemies have less work to do.

I threatened to leave myself earlier because I felt upset, but now I see I also made some mistakes, even though I had good intentions.  Let us try to work these things out.  If we keep fighting ourselves we will eventually find ourselves all alone in this world.   

If you want to hate me, fine do so.  But I would hope you can contribute your knowledge about Judaism and as well as demonstrate your vigilance and pride of being a Jew..  I want you to be vigilant, proud and do all you can to show the glory of Israel and the Jewish people.  But, you need to take a few moments to think about a few things.  If we promote ourselves at the expense of other people, rather than win the support and respect of other people, all we will do is make more enemies which will go against the goal of helping to empower the nation of Israel and the Jewish people.   

I live around a lot of gentiles and grew up with them.  I understand how they think and I also know ways to win their support. 

Don't think for one moment that I think we should ever cave in or degrade our own religion or culture.  Never!  On the contrary, anybody who wants to make war with the Jewish people and Israel should be crushed! 

But, remember, let us not attack our friends, only our enemies!

I must admit... I greatly miss-judged you... you definitely have the forum's best interest at heart.  Yes.. there are people who have short fuses here... and say things they wish they hadn't..   I think we should always give these members a second chance.

[briann]

Oh ok.. I was getting worried for a moment..  Nothing like guilt..


Oh yeah, sorry ChaimFan that Tag has beef with you..


Muman.. You say we are not allowed to curse another Jew, does that include Diane Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg? 

As much as I hate Feinstein... Boxer is actually the worse of the two.

[muman613]

Oh ok.. I was getting worried for a moment..  Nothing like guilt..


Oh yeah, sorry ChaimFan that Tag has beef with you..


Muman.. You say we are not allowed to curse another Jew, does that include Diane Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg? 

Technically yes, unless we consider their crimes to rise to the level of Heretic or Informer, then we must curse them...

But then it could be argued are they really informers and heretics? So it is best to err on the side of avoiding cursing a Jew...

I have reposted information on this in the past... Let me see if I can find the sources for this... Of course it is based on the pasuk "Do not curse the deaf"....


Here is a good post on the topic : http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,41672.msg412589.html#msg412589

[Rubystars]

Tag you and I don't always agree but I like the majority of your posts and I will miss you if you decide to leave the forum. Of course any member is free to stay or go as they choose and I don't think we should be begging you to stay if you don't feel comfortable here. Maybe you would enjoy the Hebrew forum more?

[muman613]

Here is some of the meat of the question:

http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/bonchek/archives/kedoshim63.htm

Parashas Kedoshim (5763)

This sedra, as Rashi points out (verse 19:2), contains some of the most basic teachings of Judaism. One is that one must not take advantage of someone who is in a weaker or one-down position from you. An example of that is given in the following verse.

Vayikra 19:14

“You shall not curse a deaf person and before a blind person you shall not place a stumbling block. You shall fear your G-d. I am Hashem.”

RASHI

You shall not curse a deaf person: RASHI: I only know [this prohibition] regarding a deaf person, from where do I know [the prohibition] includes everyone. (i.e it is forbidden to curse anyone).Another verse says (Exodus 22:27) ‘[A prince] among your people you shall not curse.’ (the term ‘among your people’ includes the prohibition against cursing anyone). If so, then why must the Torah specify a deaf person? [The reason is that ] Just as a deaf a person is alive so too anyone who is alive, this excludes the prohibition of cursing a dead person, who is not alive

WHAT IS RASHI SAYING?

Rashi employs the Talmudic drash which derives from this verse the halacha that the prohibition of cursing a person is applicable only when the person who is cursed is living. This means that while cursing a person who is dead is certainly not good behavior, it is not prohibited in this verse. The drash explains why a deaf person is singled out in this verse, if cursing anyone is forbidden. The reason that the Torah mentions a deaf person explicitly is to use it as a representative of a category – the category of living people. Just as a deaf person is alive and it is forbidden to curse him, so too any person who is alive it is forbidden to curse. But it is not forbidden to curse a person who is not alive, who is dead.

UNDERSTANDING THE DRASH

The drash emphasizes the point that the deaf person is alive, but isn’t that strange ? Most people we are prohibited from harming are alive! Why single out the deaf person ?

An Answer: The defining characteristic of a deaf person is that he is deaf. If one where to ask: What do you know about Yaakov? The first answer someone would give is that he is deaf (if in fact he were deaf). But if Yaakov were also dead, then the first answer would be “He is dead.” That is more defining than the fact that he was deaf when he was alive.

A DEEPER QUESTION

But why do I need to be told this? Isn’t it obvious that cursing a deaf person is basically a crime if the person is alive and could suffer from being cursed, even if he, himself, cannot hear the curse ?

The answer is that there is a case where cursing a dead person is a crime. One may not curse one’s parents even if they are dead. So I might have thought that since it is prohibited to curse parents even if they are not alive, so too it would be prohibited to curse anyone even after they died. But the Torah differentiates between the two cases, one is forbidden (parents) and on is not forbidden (any other person).

Can you think why?

Your Answer:

A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING

An Answer: I would say that cursing anyone is forbidden because you do him harm. Therefore, only when the object of your curse can suffer harm, are you forbidden to curse him. That would be only while he is alive. But the reason for not cursing parents is not the harm that could come to them; rather the reason is that one must not be ungrateful to one’s parents who gave him life. That reason exists even after one’s parents have died. He must still be respectful of them and grateful to them for the life they have given him. It is for this reason that one must never curse one’s parents, alive or dead. But this is not the rationale for not cursing another person. The rational exists only when the other person is alive.

Shabbat Shalom
Avigdor Bonchek

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Oh ok.. I was getting worried for a moment..  Nothing like guilt..


Oh yeah, sorry ChaimFan that Tag has beef with you..


Muman.. You say we are not allowed to curse another Jew, does that include Diane Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg? 

Where did you get Chaimfan from?

[Every Jew AK47]

I must admit... I greatly miss-judged you... you definitely have the forum's best interest at heart.  Yes.. there are people who have short fuses here... and say things they wish they hadn't..   I think we should always give these members a second chance.

No worries Brian..  We all are sometimes too quick to judge or speak and I have been plenty guilty here.   Considering how small of a group is the Jewish people and considering the threats we face, coming together and working through our disagreements is more important now than ever.     Every Jewish soul is precious to Hashem. 

Technically yes, unless we consider their crimes to rise to the level of Heretic or Informer, then we must curse them...

But then it could be argued are they really informers and heretics? So it is best to err on the side of avoiding cursing a Jew...

I have reposted information on this in the past... Let me see if I can find the sources for this... Of course it is based on the pasuk "Do not curse the deaf"....


Here is a good post on the topic : http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,41672.msg412589.html#msg412589

Muman, I am sorry.. Maybe, I am committing a sin or will looked down by you, but I feel people like Feinstein, Bloomberg are traitors to the Jewish and American people and put us at great risk of danger and annihilation.   I also have a hard time overlooking criminal things done by Jewish politicians any more than a non-Jew, simply because they are Jewish.  But, perhaps, that is a topic for discussion at another time.   I will certainly have to read your post soon.   

Let me say, I think we should avoid at all costs insulting or cursing another Jew..  However, there are extremes and these extremes have gone way past the acceptable threshold by these people, IMO.

As much as I hate Feinstein... Boxer is actually the worse of the two.

Oy vey!  How much worse can you get??  Feinstein is the architect of the Assault Weapon Ban Bill that will be adopted by the Kenyan dictator Hussein Obama and will be used to disarm Jews and Americans and open up the possibility for another Shoah.    Hell hath no fury!

[muman613]

No worries Brian..  We all are sometimes too quick to judge or speak and I have been plenty guilty here.   Considering how small of a group is the Jewish people and considering the threats we face, coming together and working through our disagreements is more important now than ever.     Every Jewish soul is precious to Hashem. 
Muman, I am sorry.. Maybe, I am committing a sin or will looked down by you, but I feel people like Feinstein, Bloomberg are traitors to the Jewish and American people and put us at great risk of danger and annihilation.   I also have a hard time overlooking criminal things done by Jewish politicians any more than a non-Jew, simply because they are Jewish.  But, perhaps, that is a topic for discussion at another time.   I will certainly have to read your post soon.   

Let me say, I think we should avoid at all costs insulting or cursing another Jew..  However, there are extremes and these extremes have gone way past the acceptable threshold by these people, IMO.

Oy vey!  How much worse can you get??  Feinstein is the architect of the Assault Weapons Bill that will be adopted by the Kenyan dictator Hussein Obama and will be used to disarm Jews and Americans and open up the possibility for another Shoah.    Hell hath no fury!

Your opinion is not out of line with the majority here. What I say is the minority opinion here at JTF...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Tag, I'm not sure what to tell you here. I know this post is about me but I'm not sure what you wanted me to say. I posted a story about a pedophile who happens to be Jewish, whose victims were also all Jews, and you went ballistic. I'm sorry that you feel that you have to leave but I didn't say anything wrong. This is between you and G-d now. I wish you wouldn't leave but this is your decision and not mine.

[Every Jew AK47]

Where did you get Chaimfan from?

Thorugh a PM.. He kept changing his ID so many times, I asked what to call him.  And he said to call him ChaimFan.. That is how I address him now..

[Lisa]

Tag, I'm not sure what to tell you here. I know this post is about me but I'm not sure what you wanted me to say. I posted a story about a pedophile who happens to be Jewish, whose victims were also all Jews, and you went ballistic. I'm sorry that you feel that you have to leave but I didn't say anything wrong. This is between you and G-d now. I wish you wouldn't leave but this is your decision and not mine.

I think some of the religious Jews here like Tag are very sensitive when they see that an entire group of Jews are criticized by a non-Jew.  Likewise, if I were to post that the Roman Catholic Church in America is rotten to the core because there were priests that molested boys, I can see how it might offend the Catholic members here. 

Now it's one thing to say that pedophilia is disgusting and wrong and that the offenders (regardless of their religion) should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.  I think it's also fine to point out that the Satmar Rebbe who encouraged his followers to remain in Hungary while he escaped on the Kastner train, has a lot to answer for. 

But remember you guys, we're a forum of Jews and non-Jews.  So please be careful what you post about an entire religious group that's not your own. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I think some of the religious Jews here like Tag are very sensitive when they see that an entire group of Jews are criticized by a non-Jew.  Likewise, if I were to post that the Roman Catholic Church in America is rotten to the core because there were priests that molested boys, I can see how it might offend the Catholic members here. 

Now it's one thing to say that pedophilia is disgusting and wrong and that the offenders (regardless of their religion) should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.  I think it's also fine to point out that the Satmar Rebbe who encouraged his followers to remain in Hungary while he escaped on the Kastner train, has a lot to answer for. 

But remember you guys, we're a forum of Jews and non-Jews.  So please be careful what you post about an entire religious group that's not your own.

The evidence shows that the entirety of Satmar leadership is evil. You could substitute Lutheranism or any other such group. They certainly showed evil behavior in this case.

My advice to Satmar that are not evil zombies is to leave this cult. Chaim would agree with this.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The evidence shows that the entirety of Satmar leadership is evil. You could substitute Lutheranism or any other such group. They certainly showed evil behavior in this case.

My advice to Satmar that are not evil zombies is to leave this cult. Chaim would agree with this.

My wife and kids are Lutherans, and they have no idea of the evil they are attached to!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I'm not saying your family is evil or that all Lutherans/Satmars are, but certainly as a religion, they are evil.