Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
A New low for messianics
Sveta:
I hope I was not rude to anyone though.
Ephraim Ben Noach:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on June 06, 2013, 09:24:43 PM ---I hope I was not rude to anyone though.
--- End quote ---
I didn't think you were at all, you spoke the truth! Also great links.
Saxon Marauder:
--- Quote from: Lisa on June 06, 2013, 12:09:21 PM ---You guys, I don't want this to become a Judaism vs. Christianity debate. We Jews believe in Judaism from the Torah and Talmud. The Christians believe in the NT as a continuation of the Tanach. So I don't want this degenerating into a thread about how "my religion is better than yours."
The subject of when Christianity separated from Judaism, and the resulting differences between the two religions could be the subject of entire books or forums. So if you guys want to continue the discussion, either do it via private messages or off the forum completely.
Otherwise, I'm locking this thread.
--- End quote ---
I respect Jews who follow Judaism- like Rebbe Kahane and his students and not, say, Jews who want to be Christians like the "Jews for Jesus" crowd. Likewise I hold in contempt Christians who want to become Jews or follow the Torah and not the Gospel. These religious hybrids only sow confusion within their respective Jewish and Christian communities because they engage in religious deception.
I am in disgust of political Jews inasmuch as I am disgusted by political Catholics. Snakes. Vipers.
Jesus says "A man cannot serve two masters." I serve my religion- and make no demands of Jews to serve or submit to Catholicism. It's undignified. Gross. Evil. I will oppose any so-called Christian who tries to subject religious Jews to Christianity- but also vice-versa. :)
Outside of public discourse Catholics have no ability to influence Judaism. Anciently Catholicism has always held Judaism to be an independent religion that the clergy has no influence over.
muman613:
Please spare us Saxon Marauder... You know as well as we do what the 'Catholic' church did to the Jewish people through-out history.... I hope you were just making an ignorant comment and not attempting to white-wash history.
And may I ask what is your intention with the 'nic' of 'Saxon Marauder'? The last time I took a history class was about 25 years ago but I did look it up. It seems odd to me your selection of that name in light of this information:
--- Quote ---After a bloody struggle that lasted thirty years (772-804), the Saxons were finally brought under Frankish supremacy by the great Frankish ruler, Charlemagne. The earliest date at which it can be proved that Charlemagne had the conquest of the Saxon districts in view is 776. Charlemagne was also able to win them to Christianity, the Saxons being the last German tribe that still held persistently to belief in the Germanic gods. At different times the Saxon wars of Charlemagne have been called "religious wars." The assertion, which cannot be proved, has been made that Pope Adrian I had called upon Charlemagne to convert the Saxons by force. Charlemagne's campaigns were intended mainly to punish the Saxons for their annual marauding expeditions to the Rhine, in which they burned churches and monasteries, killed the priests, and sacrificed their prisoners of war to the gods. At the same time it is true that various measures taken by Charlemagne, as the execution of 4500 Saxons at Verden in 782 and the hard laws issued to the subjugated, were shortsighted and cruel.
It was believed that if peace was to be permanent the overthrow of the Saxons must be accompanied by their conversion to Christianity. The work of converting Saxony was given to St. Sturmi, who was on terms of friendship with Charlemagne, and the monks of the monastery of Fulda founded by Sturmi. Among the successful missionaries were also St. Willehad, the first Bishop of Bremen, and his Anglo-Saxon companions. After St. Sturmi's death (779) the country of the Saxons was divided into missionary districts, and each of these placed under a Frankish bishop. Parishes were established within the old judicial districts. With the generous aid of Charlemagne and his nobles large numbers of churches and monasteries were founded, and as soon as peace and quiet had been re-established in the different districts, permanent dioceses were founded.
--- End quote ---
Does it seem to you that the Saxon's willingly accepted the imposed 'conversion' to Catholicism? 4500 were slain by Charlemagne. Indeed the Saxons were originally 'marauding' barbarians to the church...
The Catholic church has a lot of blood on it's hands, both Jewish and other religions...
Nobody here wants to convert you... Just keep the crazy lunatics of the Mel Gibson variety in check and things will be ok...
Sveta:
--- Quote from: muman613 on June 21, 2013, 02:29:56 AM ---Please spare us Saxon Marauder... You know as well as we do what the 'Catholic' church did to the Jewish people through-out history.... I hope you were just making an ignorant comment and not attempting to white-wash history.
--- End quote ---
Being that my ancestors were Sephardic Jews who suffered greatly by the Inquisition that the catholic church propogated against Jews in Spain, when I think of catholicism, I usually picture this: (please be warned, there are some graphic scenes in the video- BUT it is NOTHING compared to what happened in real life) In this scene, some "Conversos" who were forced-converts to catholicism but were found to be secretly praciticing Judaism are being burned at the stake. Before being burned alive, some were offered to "repent" and be spared of the fire by being stragled. We can see that these people being burned were saying the Shema before dying, one becomes afraid and "accepts" absolution but it killed by the "garrote". Some brotherly love indeed.
It's just the mental image I get. I have met some really nice Catholics in my days, I have also met some (pre-Vatican II) types who were very mean. But that's true even for protestants. I believe it was Pope John Paul II, who apologized to all Jews for the many atrocities of the church. Ok, that was nice to recognize it. But the point I am making is that...
When a man kills another- is saying sorry good enough? Is there not a penalty or a death sentence? We realize how many Jews were killed by the Catholic church in sooo many years. Is saying "we are sorry" just going to wipe the killings away? Do we not think that Hashem serves punishment for the blood spilled?
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