Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
A New low for messianics
cjd:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on June 23, 2013, 04:43:17 AM ---Being that my ancestors were Sephardic Jews who suffered greatly by the Inquisition that the catholic church propogated against Jews in Spain, when I think of catholicism, I usually picture this: (please be warned, there are some graphic scenes in the video- BUT it is NOTHING compared to what happened in real life) In this scene, some "Conversos" who were forced-converts to catholicism but were found to be secretly praciticing Judaism are being burned at the stake. Before being burned alive, some were offered to "repent" and be spared of the fired by being stragled. We can see that these people being burned were saying the Shema before dying, one becomes afraid and "accepts" absolution but it killed by the "garrote". Some brotherly love indeed.
It's just the mental image I get. I have met some really nice Catholics in my days, I have also met some (pre-Vatican II) types who were very mean. But that's true even for protestants. I believe it was Pope John Paul II, who apologized to all Jews for the many atrocities of the church. Ok, that was nice to recognize it. But the point I am making is that...
When a man kills another- is saying sorry good enough? Is there not a penalty or a death sentence? We realize how many Jews were killed by the Catholic church in sooo many years. Is saying "we are sorry" just going to wipe the killings away? Do we not think that Hashem serves punishment for the blood spilled?
--- End quote ---
Well since it is impossible to bring back the dead what more is there to do for the church but to apologize and work towards better relations moving forward... If Hashem is serving punishment to the ones who deserve it so be it.
Sveta:
--- Quote from: cjd on June 23, 2013, 05:00:34 AM ---Well since it is impossible to bring back the dead
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Well, technically speaking...when Moshiach comes, the dead will rise :)
But anyways, the inquisition is the picture I get of the church. To others it may be the holocaust, others the pogroms etc..etc..
cjd:
--- Quote from: IsraeliHeart on June 23, 2013, 05:04:44 AM ---Well, technically speaking...when Moshiach comes, the dead will rise :)
But anyways, the inquisition is the picture I get of the church. To others it may be the holocaust, others the pogroms etc..etc..
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Well I don't know that the church was responsible for the holocaust but that's another story... I am sure besides religious were some political motivations to some of this as well... It's good to be informed of the past but I think it's more important to see what's up ahead... I might be like an old horse with blinders on but it seems to me the present day dangers for the Jewish people are coming from places other than Rome.
Sveta:
I didn't say the church itself created the holocaust. But the perpretators of the holocaust were of christian religions. Catholic or Protestant. Regardless of the 3rd Reich trying to be pagan or atheist.. The culture of Europe was one where the majority was Christian and had been used to hundreds of years where it was allowed to do pogroms against Jews. Where it was allowed for (catholics and protestants) to go to Jewish villages and kill people just for being Jewish. I mean in almost every European city (catholic or protestant) there was some type of anti-Semitic historical event. You can search for Orleans France, Lancashire, Oslo, Madrid, Krakow, St. Petersburg etc..etc.. and in every history of the city there will be some "Anti-Semitism in..."
Hundreds and hundreds of years or murder ALL lead up to the ultimate act of massive murder of the Holocaust.
In Judaism, however, there is a teaching. And that is to NEVER be afraid of anyone- of anything. Only be afraid of G-d. There is also a teaching that says about Israel "Your destroyers come from within". I am not afraid of Rome and am not afraid of some anti-Semitic cardinals who proclaim that Gaza is like the concentration camp or a Ghetto. I'll never be afraid of them, only of Hashem. They are only a threat if we anger G-d. However, there is a history of the Christian churches that is a sad one. One that hurts. Fortunately, times have changed and while I obviously don't hate the Christians of today (because they are not responsible for the atrocities of their ancestors) I am still going to remember the past and honor my ancestor's memories for the suffering they went through.
My only problem today are with Christians who are anti-Semitic (the pre-Vatican II types like Mel Gibsons father), the pro-fakestine liberal Christians and the missionary Christians who go to Jewish neighborhoods to try to destroy souls.
All others I have no problem with. But I think it is understandable for me to have some hurt pain knowing about the Inquisition and what my own blood went through in the past, even if it was a long time ago.
mord:
Paul created Christianity Jesus was just into reinterpretation of Judaism alot less so then modern deformed and some Conservatives.If he lived today he would be Just another Jewish Rabbi who no Jew would complain about.
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