Ed Snowden : Hero or Traitor

[muman613]

I generally am completely against leaking government secrets. One reason is because I have worked for companies which required secret clearance and I know that government contractors do important work to make sure our country remains safe. I still stand against the Wiki-leakers and am trying to decide where I stand on this guy.

I am inclined to feel that he is a hero because it took a lot of guts and a lot of belief in what is right in order to sacrifice your life like he has done. This guy is now forced to flee and seek asylum from another nation to protect him from prosecution in America. I do believe that the NSA program is un-Constitutional because it violates the 4th Amendment which garuntees that a citizen will be safe from random search and seizure (a key concern of the Revolutionary government of America). I believe 'dragnets' are basically a violation of the intent of the Constitution.

Please decide and vote...

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=105&load=8511

[muman613]

[muman613]

Manning was wrong about some things...

He (Snowden) was not making $200k.... I have heard he only made $120k a year....  I make more than that currently so I don't think that he had a 'cush' job... I would have thought he made more for having a top secret clearance.

It doesn't matter to me that he didn't have a College diploma. In my field it is possible to excel without a degree...

[muman613]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/booz-allen-edward-snowden-nsa-leak-92568.html

Consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton has fired Edward Snowden, the computer technician who acknowledged leaking classified documents to The Guardian and The Washington Post, the company announced.

Booz Allen on Tuesday morning also called into question one detail Snowden gave about himself when it updated a statement it released Sunday evening with a single sentence: “Snowden, who had a salary at the rate of $122,000, was terminated June 10, 2013, for violations of the firm’s code of ethics and firm policy,” the company said.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have a hunch on how this poll is going to go... 

[Zelhar]

I don't like him, he is a libertarian/Rupaulian nut case. But he is neither hero nor traitor. I think exposing an illegal unconstitutional conspiracy by the government transcends the betrayal of secrecy in this case and it doesn't seem like he gave in any specific secrete but rather the general practice by the NSA to monitor everyone.

[muman613]

I don't like him, he is a libertarian/Rupaulian nut case. But he is neither hero nor traitor. I think exposing an illegal unconstitutional conspiracy by the government transcends the betrayal of secrecy in this case and it doesn't seem like he gave in any specific secrete but rather the general practice by the NSA to monitor everyone.

I believe as Dr Manning stated, that he may have given over more information than was published. And also he must have more information which he may use as a 'ace in the hole' or a bargaining chip in the future...

[IsraelForever]

A total traitor.  I would give him the death sentence, if I could.  Why, you ask?  Because he simply made it easier for another 9-11 to happen.  He's made it harder to catch Jihadists before they kill. 

By the way, they're collecting metadata, not the contents of your calls. 

This is 2013, not 1776.  I'm betting that the Framers wouldn't have any problem with this. 

If there's another 9-11, how many will say, "You know, we didn't do all we could, did we?"

I think we should do all we can.  This includes supporting programs like this. 

Snowden should be caught and tried for treason. 

[HiWarp]

A total traitor.  I would give him the death sentence, if I could.  Why, you ask?  Because he simply made it easier for another 9-11 to happen.  He's made it harder to catch Jihadists before they kill. 

By the way, they're collecting metadata, not the contents of your calls. 

This is 2013, not 1776.  I'm betting that the Framers wouldn't have any problem with this. 

If there's another 9-11, how many will say, "You know, we didn't do all we could, did we?"

I think we should do all we can.  This includes supporting programs like this. 

Snowden should be caught and tried for treason.

By that reasoning, everyone in the country should agree to 24x7x365 surveillance. Then we stand an even greater chance to thwart another 9/11. And, if someone has nothing to hide, then what would be their objection?

[Hoosier Kahanist]

He should be sentenced to the Ecuadorian embassy in London for life with his fellow sodomite Julian Assange.

[muman613]

A total traitor.  I would give him the death sentence, if I could.  Why, you ask?  Because he simply made it easier for another 9-11 to happen.  He's made it harder to catch Jihadists before they kill. 

By the way, they're collecting metadata, not the contents of your calls. 

This is 2013, not 1776.  I'm betting that the Framers wouldn't have any problem with this. 

If there's another 9-11, how many will say, "You know, we didn't do all we could, did we?"

I think we should do all we can.  This includes supporting programs like this. 

Snowden should be caught and tried for treason.

This argument is like the gun control argument. You know that the Government knew about the Tsarnav (sp?) brothers long before they planned their attack. They were on watch lists and were known to the govt... So why were they able to carry out their plan? Enhanced surveillance was not necessary for that... There are many other arguments which can be made which reveal that the inspection of every electronic communication is unnecessary in order to protect the country.

What you suggest, as HiWarp points out, would mean that a police officer could pull me over and search me for no reason other than to say he was looking for a terrorist. How long before all Kahanists are considered 'terrorists'? The word has no intrinsic meaning other than to cause others to be terrified... I do not want to live in a country where our freedoms are inpinged in order to maintain so-called security.

Look at the case of 9/11... It could have been prevented (without electronic spying) because all the terrorists were on watch lists and we knew about the first 911 plot (in 1993) which led to the 'Blind Sheiks' mosque, yet they were not stopped... Taking away the rights of Americans is exactly what the terrorists wanted in the first place... Next stop Sharia law..

[Mishmaat]

He is a hero! G-d bless him! The information he exposed was in our best interest and he only exposed it to U.S. citizens. Not to enemy countries. I value my privacy, freedom and protections guaranteed by the fourth amendment of the Constitution. All of the gung ho folks here who are calling for his execution seriously need to re-evaluate their position. Snowden is a courageous individual!

[Havok]

How can any of you view Mr Snowden as a traitor when he did exactly what Jonathan Pollard did.
They both gave top secret info out to help people. You are a bunch of hypocrites if you view one as doing the right thing and the other as not.

[Israel Chai]

[serbian army]

His name will never die!! A hero of our time!

[Israel Chai]

The NSA didn't like him violating their privacy. 

[Every Jew AK47]

A total traitor.  I would give him the death sentence, if I could.  Why, you ask?  Because he simply made it easier for another 9-11 to happen.  He's made it harder to catch Jihadists before they kill. 

By the way, they're collecting metadata, not the contents of your calls. 

This is 2013, not 1776.  I'm betting that the Framers wouldn't have any problem with this. 

If there's another 9-11, how many will say, "You know, we didn't do all we could, did we?"

I think we should do all we can.  This includes supporting programs like this. 

Snowden should be caught and tried for treason.

Considering, that my family in Europe was exterminated by the Nazis using similar tactics to what the USA government is doing with the ILLEGAL secret monitoring and intelligence acquisition operations , I will commend Edward Snowden as a great hero!!   


Forget 9/11, let's try a Shoa Chadash (New Holocaust)!  When a government using unconstitutional means to empower itself at the expense of its citizens in the name of "National Security", what you end up with is a Fascist state led by terrorists.  9/11 will be absolutely nothing to talk about in comparison to having a country ruled by an evil dictatorship that has complete control over the populace.  There is a reason why our Founding Fathers in the USA created a Constitution, it was to protect us from this very evil!  Modern technology and digital information technology has only given corrupt governments, like the one led by Barack Hussein a footstool in acquiring more power and control over an ignorant population of sheeple, then ever was possible in the past.  Essentially, by us digitizing and transporting all our thoughts over text, voice and video over the web, the government now has access to everything we ever said or thought and can utilize it against us.

I am a software developer and I do know the potential the government has at acquiring information.  I understand Snowden's fears, as I  in my own profession live with them every day.   The means for the government to compress, archive, encrypt and store data becomes easier and easier every year.  Nanotechnology means almost infinite amount of digital data can be archived in secret government databases.  Thankfully, we had a whistleblower who decided not to comply with unscrupulous, unconstitutional and heinous activities carried out by our evil government.

I support Edward Snowden, a 1000% ..     We The People, not We The Government.


If the government spying on US citizens and gaining more and more information from people is suppose to protect us from a few 3rd world jihadis, who will protect us when the government decides its time to broaden their spectrum of who is a terrorist and who is not?  Let's start with JTF and JDL groups.  We have a set of laws that guarantee the rights of our citizens from the government.  The government was circumventing the laws to empower itself and using terrorism and National Security as excuse.  It is the government, in fact, not Edward Snowden, who is responsible for putting Americans at risk for terrorist attacks, since they abused the powers which were to be used to protect the American public from such dangers.  Now, we have more to fear from our government then we do from any terrorist.  Governments have always proven themselves to be the worst terrorists throughout history.

Did anyone mention they failed to protect us from the Boston Bombing?? Despite, the fact Russian Intelligence a while back even warned America these men posed a significant threat!

[muman613]

Amen EveryJewA44!

And in light of the other scandals which have arisen, the targeting of conservatives by the government organization the IRS, and illegal phone inspection of journalists for the AP and FOX news, and the cover-up of Benghazi.... Only a completely ignorant fool who happens to be an idiot would not see the writing on the wall.

This is exactly the government my high school teachers warned me against.

[IsraelForever]

Sorry, everyone, I'm not going to over-react to this collection of metadata.  I'm not fearful that Nazi's are taking over the government and are going to throw innocents into jail for making a phone call to their grandmother.  I will say this:  If my brother was killed in the collapse of the Twin Towers, I wouldn't be afraid that my government was turning into the terrorists.  Instead, I would be very supportive of using any tools necessary to make it easier for them to prevent terrorism.  If I'm an idiot, then so be it. 

By the way, you know how they caught they caught the Boston Bombers?  From camera surveillance.  Gee, we should take down those cameras because our right to privacy is being eroded.  We can't walk the streets now without being photographed by the Nazi's who have taken over our government.  What's next?  Cameras in our bedrooms? 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

A total traitor.  I would give him the death sentence, if I could.  Why, you ask?  Because he simply made it easier for another 9-11 to happen.  He's made it harder to catch Jihadists before they kill. 

By the way, they're collecting metadata, not the contents of your calls. 

This is 2013, not 1776.  I'm betting that the Framers wouldn't have any problem with this. 

If there's another 9-11, how many will say, "You know, we didn't do all we could, did we?"

I think we should do all we can.  This includes supporting programs like this. 

Snowden should be caught and tried for treason.

You freaking serious? You don't think that the big shots in al-Qaeda don't have ways around government surveillance?

[Every Jew AK47]

Sorry, everyone, I'm not going to over-react to this collection of metadata.  I'm not fearful that Nazi's are taking over the government and are going to throw innocents into jail for making a phone call to their grandmother.  I will say this:  If my brother was killed in the collapse of the Twin Towers, I wouldn't be afraid that my government was turning into the terrorists.  Instead, I would be very supportive of using any tools necessary to make it easier for them to prevent terrorism.  If I'm an idiot, then so be it. 

By the way, you know how they caught they caught the Boston Bombers?  From camera surveillance.  Gee, we should take down those cameras because our right to privacy is being eroded.  We can't walk the streets now without being photographed by the Nazi's who have taken over our government.  What's next?  Cameras in our bedrooms?

In Nazi Germany there was very few terrorist attacks.  You're right, there is a price we pay living in a free society.  That means, people are going to attempt to break the trust and try to take advantage of the system.   When you live in a nazi-like, police-state people are much safer.  Perhaps we should all have chips implanted in our brain and have constant embedded tracking of our every move to be even more safe.  Where do we draw the line?   The outdoor cameras were put in a public place and used for security of private establishments.  They were not installed by the government, but happen to have served the purpose of identifying the perpetrators.  This is fine, as it did not impose upon the privacy of any individual in his private residence, but was maintaining the security of an establishment.   I also am not against installing cameras in public places to identify suspicious activity in places that could be susceptible to terrorist attacks, such as at the new world trade center building. 

However, the problem with trusting the government with your complete security is some times friend turns into foe.  Let us use Nazi Germany as a prime example, but it doesn't end there.  Mao Zedong, Joseph Stalin, among others took advantage of having complete government control and an oppressive security and intelligence force (like KGB) that did much to restrict freedom and suppress human rights.   

I'll take a string of suicide bombings over a complete police state where you have to ask permission to travel from one place to another, show your papers at checkpoints every 5 miles or have government approval to perform any activity.   The Chinese government, for example, surveillance churches, to make sure they are not giving praise to a man over The State.  It is illegal in China, for example, to say Praise G-d.  They must say Praise The Government of China and G-d.  This is mandatory, as they cannot accept the people to believe there is any higher authority than the government.  They know that these types of thoughts can trigger a Revolution.

Mass government surveillance, gun control, heavy taxation isn't about protecting and helping the people, it's about empowering the machine, the government who is self-destructive and corrupt.  Hence , once again, why we have a Constitution implemented to protect us against this inevitable corruptible nature of humans and governing authorities.

[HiWarp]

Sorry, everyone, I'm not going to over-react to this collection of metadata.  I'm not fearful that Nazi's are taking over the government and are going to throw innocents into jail for making a phone call to their grandmother.  I will say this:  If my brother was killed in the collapse of the Twin Towers, I wouldn't be afraid that my government was turning into the terrorists.  Instead, I would be very supportive of using any tools necessary to make it easier for them to prevent terrorism.  If I'm an idiot, then so be it. 

By the way, you know how they caught they caught the Boston Bombers?  From camera surveillance.  Gee, we should take down those cameras because our right to privacy is being eroded.  We can't walk the streets now without being photographed by the Nazi's who have taken over our government.  What's next?  Cameras in our bedrooms?

First of all, you cannot guarantee what a future government will look like so the fact that you are not fearful that Nazis are taking over the present government is irrelevant. When you give more power to the government today, you can never depend on getting it back tomorrow.

Secondly, surveillance cameras are used by private entities where the owner of the area implements them for security. Secret collection of information from private citizens by the government without their knowledge is, in fact, like someone coming into your bedroom and, unbeknownst to you, installing a surveillance camera and monitoring you.

Third, metadata in and of itself, does not necessarily infringe upon your privacy but, since it is data about data and can be used to extract the actual data (email, texts, phone records...) at a later date, are you willing to bank on the government never doing that? I work in the IT field and had a instance a while back where a volume on a network server suffered corruption in all copies of it's partition table. The data was inaccessible. Using metadata I was able to retrieve the volume with absolutely no data loss. Anyone looking at the metadata would have been looking at gibberish so there would have been no concern about any data breach. Once the metadata was used to reclaim the data, everything was accessible. 

[mord]

I'm just disappointed he gave the story to extremely U.S hating ,Israel hating gay glenn greenwald      http://cifwatch.com/2013/05/21/glenn-greenwald-doubles-down-on-claim-that-pro-israel-factions-nixed-massad-essay/

[angryChineseKahanist]

He's a criminal.
Ratting on the US.

[HiWarp]

He's a criminal.
Ratting on the US.

If the US is committing secret, illegal acts against it's citizens, then they deserve to get ratted out.