Is a conversion appropriate in this circumstance?

[Israel Chai]

My father has a disdain for judaism even though he's halachically jewish.My mother hasn't got time for religion though she still considers the church to be important.My sister is more complicated; she speaks hebrew, revisionist zionist , loves judaism but she's shown no sign of even considering being a giyur

What doesn't he like about Judaism? Either way, I'm in a similar situation, and when you want something, people will ask questions at first to make sure you're for real, but they back off in time. If you feel that's the best way for you to serve G-d, then do it. If you think that's too much for you and it's going to keep you back, maybe you should try living as a Noahide until you're freer. I won't question your reasons, because mine go on for a while, but if you want to follow Torah now, there's always a way.

[rafeli18]

What about your Grandparents? Most them may of converted out of fear or convince...

my grandmother was born of a jewish mother and italian catholic father so she is jewish but she converted quite young even though she still retained some jewish customs. My great grandfather was adopted in southern italy

[rafeli18]

What doesn't he like about Judaism? Either way, I'm in a similar situation, and when you want something, people will ask questions at first to make sure you're for real, but they back off in time. If you feel that's the best way for you to serve G-d, then do it. If you think that's too much for you and it's going to keep you back, maybe you should try living as a Noahide until you're freer. I won't question your reasons, because mine go on for a while, but if you want to follow Torah now, there's always a way.

He respects the jewish communal spirit but finds the hasidim ridiculous in that he kinda giggles when he sees one. Ironically, when he was younger and I have pictures him and his sister used to dress in a very similar fashion especially the hair. Once my auntie told me when they used to go out shopping in east london which was the heart of jewish life in britain people used to talk to her in yiddish  I've looked at other religions( Shintoism, catholicism, islam to a degree, budhhism) but the one I find the most interesting  and spiritually soothing has to be judaism. I had a school project in which I could do anything I deliberately choose to do the history of european jewry. I know I'm too young which is why for a few years I want to learn more about judaism whilst studying at uni, etc and see if this is the right choice. Hopefully it will be. Noahide laws are a sound stucture but they lack any sense of spirituality which is something my heart wants.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

my grandmother was born of a jewish mother and italian catholic father so she is jewish but she converted quite young even though she still retained some jewish customs. My great grandfather was adopted in southern italy

Would they help you, in wanting you to be Jewish? I'm pretty sure my Mothers, mothers, mothers, mom was a Hungarian Jew that never came to America. So I'm very mixed up as well.

[rafeli18]

Would they help you, in wanting you to be Jewish? I'm pretty sure my Mothers, mothers, mothers, mom was a Hungarian Jew that never came to America. So I'm very mixed up as well.

they're dead now

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

He respects the jewish communal spirit but finds the hasidim ridiculous in that he kinda giggles when he sees one. Ironically, when he was younger and I have pictures him and his sister used to dress in a very similar fashion especially the hair. Once my auntie told me when they used to go out shopping in east london which was the heart of jewish life in britain people used to talk to her in yiddish  I've looked at other religions( Shintoism, catholicism, islam to a degree, budhhism) but the one I find the most interesting  and spiritually soothing has to be judaism. I had a school project in which I could do anything I deliberately choose to do the history of european jewry. I know I'm too young which is why for a few years I want to learn more about judaism whilst studying at uni, etc and see if this is the right choice. Hopefully it will be. Noahide laws are a sound stucture but they lack any sense of spirituality which is something my heart wants.

You want to hear something totally stupid? I kept taking online religious tests, and every time the result was I was Jewish. 

[rafeli18]

You want to hear something totally stupid? I kept taking online religious tests, and every time the result was I was Jewish. 

lol, how kosher are they?

[rafeli18]

I just did one
top 3; sikhism , orthodox judaism and reform 

[Israel Chai]

He respects the jewish communal spirit but finds the hasidim ridiculous in that he kinda giggles when he sees one. Ironically, when he was younger and I have pictures him and his sister used to dress in a very similar fashion especially the hair. Once my auntie told me when they used to go out shopping in east london which was the heart of jewish life in britain people used to talk to her in yiddish  I've looked at other religions( Shintoism, catholicism, islam to a degree, budhhism) but the one I find the most interesting  and spiritually soothing has to be judaism. I had a school project in which I could do anything I deliberately choose to do the history of european jewry. I know I'm too young which is why for a few years I want to learn more about judaism whilst studying at uni, etc and see if this is the right choice. Hopefully it will be. Noahide laws are a sound stucture but they lack any sense of spirituality which is something my heart wants.

The Noahides do have a degree of spirituality and you can read up on Judaism without being Jewish. Practicing the religion is a serious commitment, so, in the end, the spirituality in Judaism is very interesting and eye-opening, but you will end up needing more reason than that to really be orthodox.

Wearing black clothes and big hats isn't Judaism. They have their reasons, but unless your ancestors went through exactly what they did in Europe, there's no actual reason to dress like a Cossack lawyer.

[rafeli18]

Agreed, it's not a trivial decision to make but there's that abstract thing i get from learning about judaism . The sense of belonging that doesn't bide for me with other religions.Say listening to shloime gertner brings out emotions that were seldom expressed by me before but now are open.The names for g-d; Hashem , hashem, adoni seem more powerful than most other words. I'm starting to become more of a positive person though I of course want to think this through.Another user here converted in his mid 30's i believe .I know this may sound stupid but would say conservative judaism be more appropriate ?

[Israel Chai]

Agreed, it's not a trivial decision to make but there's that abstract thing i get from learning about judaism . The sense of belonging that doesn't bide for me with other religions.Say listening to shloime gertner brings out emotions that were seldom expressed by me before but now are open.The names for g-d; Hashem , hashem, adoni seem more powerful than most other words. I'm starting to become more of a positive person though I of course want to think this through.Another user here converted in his mid 30's i believe .I know this may sound stupid but would say conservative judaism be more appropriate ?

Reform and conservative aren't actually Judaism. If you want to not follow the bible and call yourself Jewish, you don't need them, and the shallow phony spirituality makes you gag after a while. If you want Judaism, try it, but don't get a pro-Fraudestinian lesbian woman rabbi to explain you how mitzvahs means G-d loves you and whats you to do the opposite of what he says. It's one thing to not be living righteously, it's worse to call unrighteousness righteous, and then do something wrong and get convinced that it's good.

[rafeli18]

Reform and conservative aren't actually Judaism. If you want to not follow the bible and call yourself Jewish, you don't need them, and the shallow phony spirituality makes you gag after a while. If you want Judaism, try it, but don't get a pro-Fraudestinian lesbian woman rabbi to explain you how mitzvahs means G-d loves you and whats you to do the opposite of what he says. It's one thing to not be living righteously, it's worse to call unrighteousness righteous, and then do something wrong and get convinced that it's good.

Agreed, a lot of religious leaders are hypocritical apart from muslims of course. A lot of jewish writers seem to place them on equal setting though.Could i ask you a favour?

[Israel Chai]

Agreed, a lot of religious leaders are hypocritical apart from muslims of course. A lot of jewish writers seem to place them on equal setting though.Could i ask you a favour?

You've got to know the source. There are many different opinions on everything, but the opinion "is my religion fake" means you really shouldn't be calling yourself part of that religion.

What would you like?

[rafeli18]

You've got to know the source. There are many different opinions on everything, but the opinion "is my religion fake" means you really shouldn't be calling yourself part of that religion.

What would you like?

Indeed, doubting the authenticity of your religion poses serious problems.
Could you recommend any prayers or materials  that might be useful in helping me come to terms with myself and my relationship with G-d?

[Israel Chai]

Indeed, doubting the authenticity of your religion poses serious problems.
Could you recommend any prayers or materials  that might be useful in helping me come to terms with myself and my relationship with G-d?

Rabbi Kahane books and vids did it for me. I follow Mumans weekly parasha postings here... ask him. He's like my enacting rabbi. Watch the yoke of heaven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguHBnL5UYc&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLF02B180A3309D74A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-HjYbbIpDM&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLF02B180A3309D74A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOvR5sgy7Z8&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLF02B180A3309D74A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAg7EDW9Co&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLF02B180A3309D74A

After, try reading Torah, and then commentaries on any of the 70+ ways it can be understood. It's said that it's better to give up Judaism and keep G-d than be Jewish and give up his laws, because through the laws, you find your way back to G-d. A connection with G-d is an indescribably powerful state of being, and you can find out about G-d in one place in particular. The chapter of Esther deals with coverts too, so that is also an interesting place to start, considering your situation.

I need more detail on what you mean by coming to terms with yourself, but here's the bottom line: if you become Jewish, the majority of the world will hate you without having met you, and you will have many new obligations, which not keeping as a Jew is a sin, but not in any way for you now. If you aren't already convinced, you have to ask Muman about the spirituality before you convert.

[muman613]

Shalom LKZ,

I feel honored for your compliment. I hope I can help everyone find a way to get close to Hashem, because the world is a better place when we know him and through this, we know ourselves and each other.

I have an 'Ask muman613' thread in the 'Ask Posters' forum where people, from time to time, ask me questions about Jewish beliefs. I always try my best to provide an answer based on sources which I find and provide links to additional material supporting my explanation. If anyone has any question which you think I could answer then go ahead and post the question in my thread.

Regarding Jewish prayer. The first and foremost 'central' prayer to Judaism is called the Shema prayer. This prayer is central to several Jewish commandments including the commandments of Mezuzah, Tefillin, and Tzit-Tzits. It is these portions which are written on parchment which is inserted in the mezzuzah (case with scroll attached to door-post) and also inserted into the boxes of Tefillin (Phalactyries) and the Tzit-Tzits are the ritual fringes we wear on our four-cornered garment.

The Shema prayer asserts the ABSOLUTE ONENESS of Hashem, the Master of the Universe, and affirms our connection with him.

The first sentence reads:


SHEMA YISRAEL HASHEM ELOKAINU, HASHEM ECHAD!
HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD IS OUR G-D, THE LORD IS ONE!

COMMENTARY:
(of course when I write the word HASHEM we actually say the word A-D-O-N-A-I (which is also not actually the pronunciation of the 'name' but means 'Our Master/Lord') The real name is called the Tetragrammaton (four letter name) which we call Yud-Kay-Vav-Kay (again I use the letter Kay, which should be read Hey). Jews do not openly use the name of Hashem as we lost the actual pronunciation after the Temple was destroyed, and as a means of preventing 'erasing of the name' which the Torah forbids. If someone should print this page and burn it, if the actual name was contained it could be considered 'CHILLUL HASHEM' or desecration of the name.

The next paragraph discusses the commandments of Tefillin and Mezuzah, and also establishes the system of reward and punishment... Here is the transliteration from Chabad


V'a-hav-ta eit A-do-nai E-lo-he-cha,
B'chawl l'va-v'cha,
u-v'chawl naf-sh'cha,
u-v'chawl m'o-de-cha.
V'ha-yu ha-d'va-rim ha-ei-leh,
A-sher a-no-chi m'tsa-v'cha ha-yom, al l'va-ve-cha.
V'shi-nan-tam l'-va-ne-cha, v'di-bar-ta bam
b'shiv-t'cha b'vei-te-cha,
uv-lech-t'cha va-de-rech,
u-v'shawch-b'cha uv-ku-me-cha.
Uk-shar-tam l'ot al ya-de-cha,
v'ha-yu l'to-ta-fot bein ei-ne-cha.
Uch-tav-tam, al m'zu-zot bei-te-cha, u-vish-a-re-cha.

You shall love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might. And these words which I command you today shall be upon your heart. You shall teach them thoroughly to your children, and you shall speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. And you shall write them upon the doorposts of your house and upon your gates.

Second Paragraph:

V'ha-ya, im sha-mo-a tish-m'u el mits-vo-tai
a-sher a-no-chi m'tsa-veh et-chem ha-yom
l'a-ha-va et A-do-nai E-lo-hei-chem
ul-awv-do b'chawl l'vav-chem, u-v'chawl naf-sh'chem,
V'na-ta-ti m'tar ar-ts'chem b'i-to, yo-reh u-mal-kosh,
v'a-saf-ta d'ga-ne-cha,
v'ti-ro-sh'cha v'yits-ha-re-cha.
V'na-ta-ti ei-sev b'sa-d'cha liv-hem-te-cha,
v'a-chal-ta v'sa-va-'ta.
Hi-sha-m'ru la-chem pen yif-te l'vav-chem, v'sar-tem,
va-a-vad-tem E-lo-him a-chei-rim, v'hish-ta-cha-vi-tem la-hem.
V'cha-rah af A-do-nai ba-chem, v'a-tsar et ha-sha-ma-yim,
v'lo yi-h'yeh ma-tar, v'ha-a-da-ma lo ti-tein et y'vu-la,
va-a-vad-tem m'hei-ra mei-al ha-a-rets ha-to-va
a-sher A-do-nai no-tein la-chem.
V'sam-tem et d'vara ei-leh, al l'vav-chem v'al naf-sh'chem,
uk-shar-tem o-tam l'ot al yed-chem,
v'ha-yu l'to-ta-fot bein ei-nei-chem.
V'li-mad-tem o-tam et b'nei-chem, l'da-beir bam
b'shiv-t'cha b'vei-te-cha, uv-lech-t'cha va-de-rech
u-v'shawch-b'cha uv-ku-me-cha.
Uch-tav-tam, al m'zu-zot bei-te-cha, u-vish-a-re-cha.
L'ma-an yir-bu y'mei-chem, vi-mei v'nei-chem, al ha-a-da-ma
a-sher nish-ba A-do-nai la-a-vo-tei-chem, la-teit la-hem
ki-mei ha-sha-ma-yim al ha-a-rets.
And it will be, if you will diligently obey My commandments which I enjoin upon you this day, to love the L-rd your G-d and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, I will give rain for your land at the proper time, the early rain and the late rain, and you will gather in your grain, your wine and your oil. And I will give grass in your fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be sated. Take care lest your heart be lured away, and you turn astray and worship alien gods and bow down to them. For then the L-rd's wrath will flare up against you, and He will close the heavens so that there will be no rain and the earth will not yield its produce, and you will swiftly perish from the good land which the L-rd gives you. Therefore, place these words of Mine upon your heart and upon your soul, and bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. You shall teach them to your children, to speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise. And you shall inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates - so that your days and the days of your children may be prolonged on the land which the L-rd swore to your fathers to give to them for as long as the heavens are above the earth.

Third Paragraph:

Va-yo-meir A-do-nai el Mo-she lei-mor:
Da-beir el b'nei Yis-ra-eil, v'a-mar-ta a-lei-hem
v'a-su la-hem tsi-tsit, al kan-fei vig-dei-hem l'do-ro-tam,
v'na-t'nu al tsi-tsit ha-ka-naf p'til t'chei-let.
V'ha-ya la-chem l'tsi-tsit, ur-i-tem o-to
uz-char-tem et kawl mits-vot A-do-nai, va-a-si-tem o-tam,
v'lo ta-tu-ru a-cha-rei l'vav-chem,
v'a-cha-rei ei-nei-chem
a-sher a-tem zo-nim a-cha-rei-hem,
L'ma-an tiz-k'ru, va-a-si-tem et kawl mits-vo-tai
vi-h'yi-tem k'do-shim lei-lo-hei-chem.
A-ni A-do-nai E-lo-hei-chem,
a-sher ho-tsei-ti et-chem mei-e-rets Mits-ra-yim
li-h'yot la-chem lei-lo-him;
A-ni A-do-nai E-lo-hei-chem… Emet
The L-rd spoke to Moses, saying: Speak to the children of Israel and tell them to make for themselves fringes on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to attach a thread of blue on the fringe of each corner. They shall be to you as tzizit, and you shall look upon them and remember all the commandments of the L-rd and fulfill them, and you will not follow after your heart and after your eyes by which you go astray - so that you may remember and fulfill all My commandments and be holy to your G-d. I am the L-rd your G-d who brought you out of the land of Egypt to be your G-d; I, the L-rd, am your G-d. True.



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/706163/jewish/In-Hebrew.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/706162/jewish/Translation.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282822/jewish/Transliteration.htm

My first attempt at transliterating the second paragraph
Veyahavta Et Hashem Elokecha, Bechol Levavecha, U'Bechol Nafshecha U'Bechol Meodecha.
V'Hayu HaDevarim HaEleh Asher Anachi Mitzecha HaYom Al Levavecha. Veshnetam Livaneycha
Vidibarta Bam, Bishvitecha, Baderech, UBishcivecha UBikomecha U'Kishritam Laot Al Yidecha, VaHu L'Taphot Bein Anecha, UCetavatam Al Mezuzot Beitecha, Uvshiurecha.

[muman613]

Get accustomed to Shema prayer, we say it morning and night (as we rise in the morning, and when we lay down to sleep). It is also a Jewish custom to say Shema right before we die.

[muman613]

[muman613]

[muman613]

You should also learn the 'Modeh Ani' or 'I gratefully acknowledge':

[ChabadKahanist]

My suggestion is that you go to the London Beth Din & speak with them.
If conversion is needed & I assuming it is if you wish to be Jewish then LBD is the best place for you to go to as LBD convesions as universally accepted worldwide.

[muman613]

My suggestion is that you go to the London Beth Din & speak with them.
If conversion is needed & I assuming it is if you wish to be Jewish then LBD is the best place for you to go to as LBD convesions as universally accepted worldwide.

Yes, rafeli18 has indicated he is interested in conversion. I think it has been said that Torah Judaism only recognizes Orthodox Conversion and I would not recommend anything less than a full, recognized Halachic Conversion.

I think it would be helpful for a prospective convert to know what is expected from a religious Jew. Maybe the secular Jews have given a wrong impression but we, the Orthodox and religious Zionists. place a great deal of importance on Mitzvot observance and Torah study. No other category of Jews (reform, progressive, conservative, reconstruction) will survive because they all support intermarriage and do not place any importance on the Torah lifestyle. I really believe that the only Jews who will be left in the future will be the small remnant of the Orthodox Jewish people. All others will have melded into the host countries population.

I have learned that some converts can make excellent Jews. There is a Jewish soul which sometimes is placed in a non-Jewish body (according to some beliefs in Gilgul) so that this is one reason some converts want to join us so intently.

I hope that rafeli18 does an actual Conversion recognized by the Beit Din. I know several men who have gone through with it.

[ChabadKahanist]

BTW,Everybody including the Israeli Rabbanut recognizes conversions done by the London Beth Din who have very strict procedures governing giyur.

[rafeli18]

Yes, rafeli18 has indicated he is interested in conversion. I think it has been said that Torah Judaism only recognizes Orthodox Conversion and I would not recommend anything less than a full, recognized Halachic Conversion.

I think it would be helpful for a prospective convert to know what is expected from a religious Jew. Maybe the secular Jews have given a wrong impression but we, the Orthodox and religious Zionists. place a great deal of importance on Mitzvot observance and Torah study. No other category of Jews (reform, progressive, conservative, reconstruction) will survive because they all support intermarriage and do not place any importance on the Torah lifestyle. I really believe that the only Jews who will be left in the future will be the small remnant of the Orthodox Jewish people. All others will have melded into the host countries population.

I have learned that some converts can make excellent Jews. There is a Jewish soul which sometimes is placed in a non-Jewish body (according to some beliefs in Gilgul) so that this is one reason some converts want to join us so intently.

I hope that rafeli18 does an actual Conversion recognized by the Beit Din. I know several men who have gone through with it.

I fully acknowledge that at my age it would be wiser to continue studying before converting but otherwise my intentions still stand. There's a fantastic british site called the Jewish Volunteering Network which I have signed up to and they cover a wide range of activities within the jewish community. I have expressed an interest in Standwithus amongst some charities. Do you feel partaking in such activities will help me become closer to jewish life which will in turn help me ascertain whether or not becoming a giyur is the right path for me?

[rafeli18]

I need more detail on what you mean by coming to terms with yourself, but here's the bottom line: if you become Jewish, the majority of the world will hate you without having met you, and you will have many new obligations, which not keeping as a Jew is a sin, but not in any way for you now. If you aren't already convinced, you have to ask Muman about the spirituality before you convert.
[/quote]

After searching a variety of religions it seems Judaism including its history, tenets and beliefs resonate with me the most in terms of my heart. For years I've been enduring what I would call an existential crisis but ever since I've learnt more and more about judaism my anxieties and worries have slowly vanished. I understand I'm a complete novice with regards to knowing completely the core tenets of the religion but these are my feelings at the moment. How often does Muman come on to this forum?