Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

Throwing a stone at Markolis and Islam

<< < (3/5) > >>

muman613:
But it is interesting that Edu posted this today, as we are reading on this coming Shabbat (Parsha Re'eh) where we are given the commandment to destroy the idols of the nations.

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading.asp?aid=36235&p=complete

Devarim - Re'eh
Chapter 12

1. These are the statutes and ordinances that you shall keep to perform in the land which the Lord God of your fathers gives you to possess all the days that you live on the earth.
2. You shall utterly destroy from all the places where the nations, that you shall possess, worshipped their gods, upon the lofty mountains and upon the hills, and under every lush tree.
3. And you shall tear down their altars, smash their monuments, burn their asherim with fire, cut down the graven images of their gods, and destroy their name from that place.
4. You shall not do so to the Lord, your God.

muman613:
Devarim - Re'eh
Chapter 12

29. When the Lord, your God cuts off the nations to which you will come to drive them out from before you, and when you drive them out and dwell in their land,
30. beware, lest you be attracted after them, after they are exterminated from before you; and lest you inquire about their gods, saying, "How did these nations serve their gods? And I will do likewise."
31. You shall not do so to the Lord, your God; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates, they did to their gods, for also their sons and their daughters they would burn in fire to their gods.

Ephraim Ben Noach:
But, those of us that put our faith in "the creator of the universe" and don't worship graven images, shall be safe. Maybe only your soul...

edu:
Quote from Muman613

--- Quote ---This is all theoretical because at this time we have no Sanhedrin and the Ishmaelites control the Temple Mount. We are not permitted to pray there... Until the time when we have sovereignty what is the purpose of hypothesizing whether this constitutes avodah zarah.
--- End quote ---
I will mention some practical outcomes even in our times of this discussion.
But first an introduction.
The Chazon Ish to Shviit #24, says that the Yishmaelites have the status similar to other wicked Gentiles except for one issue. Namely, if they touch Jewish wine, although it becomes non-kosher, nevertheless one is allowed to have benefit from it, that is to say, to sell it to a non-Jew.
Rabbi Kook on the other hand desperate to find any leniency possible to help the economy and agriculture, in his days, during the Shmitta year, survive, claimed that we can rely on the minority view of the Bach that the prohibition "that they shall not dwell in your land" might not apply to Yishmaelites, together with the viewpoint, that the prohibition "lo tichanem" doesn't apply when the Jews get a benefit out of the deal, in order to temporarily sell Yishmaelites, Jewish land during the Shmitta year, in order to uproot the restrictions of the Shmitta year.
Other rabbis, such as Rabbi Herzog took Rabbi Kook, one step further and started to say it was Okay to sell Yishmaelites, Jewish Land in General, even on an individual basis and even not for the purpose of uprooting Shmitta year restrictions.
Now the truth is that Rabbi Kook was relying on a censored version of the Bach. The real uncensored version of the Bach holds the exact opposite. Namely, the prohibition of  "lo tichanem" does apply to Yishmaelites.
But even leaving that issue aside, Rabbi Kook thought for Shmitta purposes to make a distinction between Gentiles that believe in idols or in a Trinity and Gentiles who are monotheists, like Moslems. But if we can show that the Yishmaelites are practicing Markolis worship, then this might sabotage, the whole premise that Yishmaelites are any better than Baal worshipers or J-man worshipers.

muman613:
I believe it was RaMBaM who first decided that Yishmaelites were monotheists. I learned this when I was looking into whether it was prohibited for a Jew to enter a church (because where I live they make us vote in churches). In that discussion I learned that we are permitted to enter mosques but not permitted to enter churches where imagery is displayed (crosses, pictures of their messiah, etc.).

It may have been because Rambam lived in a muslim country that he found a lenient (non-offensive) decision regarding the muslims.

Also, while I am no student or professor of islam, I believe I heard it said that the reason the muslims throw rocks at the kaabah is because they believe they are stoning the HaSotan. I also don't know technically whether this falls under the category of avodah zarah being worshiped in the manner it is supposed to be worshiped. If their belief concerns stoning Samech-Mem does that constitute idol worship?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page