Author Topic: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you  (Read 3910 times)

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Offline Shlomo

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If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« on: August 06, 2013, 10:38:41 PM »
If you use TOR, the government and hackers have been spying on you. Update your clients here:
https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en#downloads

Attackers wield Firefox exploit to uncloak anonymous Tor users
Publicly available exploit threatens all Tor users unless they take action now.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/attackers-wield-firefox-exploit-to-uncloak-anonymous-tor-users/

Attackers exploited a recently patched vulnerability in the Firefox browser to uncloak users of the Tor anonymity service, and the attack code is now publicly circulating online. While the exploit was most likely designed to identify people alleged to have frequented a child porn forum recently targeted by the FBI, anonymity advocates say the code could be used against almost any Tor user.

A piece of malicious JavaScript was found embedded in webpages delivered by Freedom Hosting, a provider of "hidden services" that are available only to people surfing anonymously through Tor. The attack code exploited a memory-management vulnerability, forcing Firefox to send a unique identifier to a third-party server using a public IP address that can be linked back to the person's ISP. The exploit contained several hallmarks of professional malware development, including "heap spraying" techniques to bypass Windows security protections and the loading of executable code that prompted compromised machines to send the identifying information to a server located in Virginia, according to an analysis by researcher Vlad Tsrklevich.

Discovery of the exploit came as the FBI reportedly sought the extradition of Freedom Host founder on child porn charges. Word of 28-year-old Eric Eoin Marques's arrest also came as members of the Tor Project reported the disappearance of a "large number" of hidden service addresses used by Freedom Hosting. The confluence of the three events has prompted speculation that the de-anonymizing exploit is the work of the FBI or another organized group targeting child pornographers.

"Because this payload does not download or execute any secondary backdoor or commands it's very likely that this is being operated by an LEA [law-enforcement agent] and not by blackhats," Tsrklevich wrote.

Tor has become a vital tool for journalists, political dissidents, and other people looking to surf anonymously. Naturally, the list of users also includes the types of hardened criminals the FBI alleges frequented some of the Freedom Host services. Word that there is code circulating in the wild that can uncloak people using the privacy service became distressing to many who rely on Tor to shield their identities from repressive governments or business adversaries.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Shlomo

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2013, 10:46:21 PM »
Another interesting piece of information... the government has been caught installing spyware (viruses) on people's computers and phones.

FOX News: Feds move to surveillance tactics associated more with underworld of computer hacking
Published August 03, 2013
The Wall Street Journal

The U.S. government is expanding its suspect-surveillance programs to include tactics developed and more commonly associated with some of the world’s most sophisticated and criminal-minded experts – computer hackers.

Court documents and interviews reveal new details about the closely-held programs, including spyware that can be sent to computers and phones through email and Web links -- techniques more commonly associated with attacks by criminals, according to The Wall Street Journal. 

People familiar with the FBI’s programs told the newspaper the agency has increased its use of court-ordered hacking tools to keep pace with suspects who have learned to communicate in ways that cannot be wiretapped, which law-enforcement officials call “going dark.”

A spokeswoman for the FBI declined to comment.

A former U.S. official told The Journal that some of the technology allows the FBI to remotely activate the microphones in phones running on Google Inc.’s Android software to record conversations.

Some the hacking tools were purportedly developed internally while others were bought from the private sector.

More here:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/03/feds-move-to-surveillance-tactics-associated-more-with-underworld-computer/
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 11:11:38 PM »
We might all have to go off the grid soon!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline The Noachide

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 11:23:26 PM »
Stay away from verizon too and android os.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 11:52:53 PM »
Stay away from verizon too and android os.

I think for the dumber of us here, we should just stop using a computer

Offline The Noachide

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 12:19:06 AM »
I like the idea to stop using computers. It seems like a default safe solution altogether. However, this is the technology age we live in. I like the internet, but I also don't like the internet A.K.A. the super information highway we used to call in the 80s and 90s.

Even I can't live without technology and I build/repair computers as a hobby.
When you apply for work, the employer might ask you to send your resume online only. See, you need a computer to compute information to obtain your goal.

Did you people know in every 60 seconds, over 1 billion data of information is shared on the internet as I type this post.
Admittedly, I cannot live without the internet. It's entertaining, but very addicting. It has become a norm in every household in modern society. Pre-teens these days have smartphones. It is an unbelievable change.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 12:24:09 AM »
I don't have a problem with govt hacking when its done with a court order.  Especially to catch pedophiles.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 12:30:15 AM »
I don't have a problem with govt hacking when its done with a court order.  Especially to catch pedophiles.

Me neither of course, but lately everything I hear about is some gov't office or agency just collecting data on totally innocent people en masse.  Thats not cool. To catch a predator, a criminal of course, but to amass info about any of us for future use for Gd knows what reason, that's too much

Offline White Israelite

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 01:02:01 AM »
I don't use tor I use i2p which is internal darknet only, tor in its design is not insecure or backdoored, the problem is user security, for example if you visit a onion site that has a infected iframe using java or flash and your computer is running java or flash, then only your http traffic is encrypted, not the flash or java content which is why users should disable java or flash while browsing websites with tor. Another problem with tor is that you have to rely on exit nodes which means if you are accessing non https sites, that data is plaintext including passwords which can build a profile on you eventually and your habits.

Security is only as secure as you make it if you sacrifice convenience, there are more secure solutions which I have outlined on the forums before such as i2p which are encrypted end to end through a internal darknet and virtual routers which rebuild tunnels every 10 to 15 minutes utilizing garlic routing. There is no such thing as 100 percent security, the highest form of security is keeping off the Internet and keeping everything in your mind, but there are ways to make things secure to a point it is difficult for anyone to find out what is encrypted. I study computer forensics so please feel free to ask me more, I know a lot about onion routing in general.

The issue comes down to this, if your in a surveillance state, no amount of encryption is going to save you, for example in chicago there are cameras on every block that can take pictures of something as small as a tiny needle in the street, if your being key logged or you have been infected and backdoored via hardware or software means, your keys are also compromised, if you think your accessing a page anonymously via tor project but every single node that's passing your encrypted packet is just a government server that's mapped out the tor project, your traffic is simply encrypted through each infected node and decrypted at the infected exit node, so yes in theory that is of course a possible issue.

What is advisable is staying under the radar, do not bring attention to your self, and if you are using encryption and tor for legal purposes and you have a threat model for security purposes, then you are fine. Remember that everything has vulnerabilities and this is not a exploit on the tor network it's self, this is simply a simple exploit that anyone could do outside of the tor network and is nothing new.

I personally run tails linux which has everything built in, runs on a live cd without root access which means nothing can run in the background, everything is null routed for distributing traffic except local host which is via my virtual router set to my trusted peers for encrypted traffic and transmission through a overlay network.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2013, 01:23:36 AM »
What should you use?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2013, 01:24:20 AM »
What should you use?

Protection... Like Trojans...

 :::D
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2013, 04:27:41 PM »
Protection... Like Trojans...

 :::D

Torjans... seriously, is ff with ghostery the best option?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2013, 04:33:33 PM »
Torjans... seriously, is ff with ghostery the best option?
I thought it was funny!  :::D
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2013, 04:38:57 PM »
Let me reiterate something which White Israelite said previously...

No amount of encryption will prevent the Big Brother from decrypting it. I was a 'hacker' at the young age of 15 and we used to 'crack' software protection on games in order to duplicate and share these games.... (Yes I was a 'pirate' back in the mid-80s). Back then encryption on microcomputers was in its infancy... But even then we knew that no matter how hard they tried to ensure that their code was encrypted to prevent copying, we had the tools and the knowledge to reverse engineer their efforts and crack their code.

The government has the resources and the desire to crack your encrypted communications. They have computer equipment which dwarfs the computing power of our most powerful desktop systems. I also believe that the current PGP/GPG encryption system may already be compromised and they are among the most used encryption systems available.

The answer seems to be to :

1) Avoid using these computer systems.
2) Use a dictionary based code in order to communicate (as long as the dictionary is not compromised).

I work in technology and  thus I cannot completely stop using my computer systems. I attempt to keep up with the latest security issues (exploits, patches, etc) and keep my systems as secure as possible. But if someone really wants to avoid all surveillance the only way I can think is to avoid using the system entirely.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2013, 04:49:10 PM »
What's TOR?

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2013, 04:53:12 PM »
Stay away from verizon too and android os.


Well I think all the "smart phones" are garbage anyway. Why can't people just wait until they get home to go on the Internet? It's also a problem that kids don't know how to write properly anymore. It also effect the speech of people. Why all the sudden do you hear "hashtag" on commercials all the time? Today's teenager think that life is a text message. They don't how to write properly and don't communicate how people used to before there was the Internet.


Offline muman613

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2013, 04:58:45 PM »


Well I think all the "smart phones" are garbage anyway. Why can't people just wait until they get home to go on the Internet? It's also a problem that kids don't know how to write properly anymore. It also effect the speech of people. Why all the sudden do you hear "hashtag" on commercials all the time? Today's teenager think that life is a text message. They don't how to write properly and don't communicate how people used to before there was the Internet.

I don't blame the smart phone... I blame the teacher and the parent. When I was growing up we had very simple computers and a communication system called BBS and we still all learned proper spelling and grammar.

Also I don't use the phone for the internet so much as I use it to help navigate and estimate arrival times. My phone knows my routine and can, using the current traffic data, estimate how long my drive to/from work will be. There are other useful uses for android apps including the flash light and the cat sounds...


Image from 'cat sounds'

I was actually able to communicate with one of my outside cats using this app. This cat, previously, had never communicated with me before... I think this app may have broken through to this cat.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2013, 05:02:58 PM »


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2013, 06:37:13 PM »
Let me reiterate something which White Israelite said previously...

No amount of encryption will prevent the Big Brother from decrypting it. I was a 'hacker' at the young age of 15 and we used to 'crack' software protection on games in order to duplicate and share these games.... (Yes I was a 'pirate' back in the mid-80s). Back then encryption on microcomputers was in its infancy... But even then we knew that no matter how hard they tried to ensure that their code was encrypted to prevent copying, we had the tools and the knowledge to reverse engineer their efforts and crack their code.

The government has the resources and the desire to crack your encrypted communications. They have computer equipment which dwarfs the computing power of our most powerful desktop systems. I also believe that the current PGP/GPG encryption system may already be compromised and they are among the most used encryption systems available.

The answer seems to be to :

1) Avoid using these computer systems.
2) Use a dictionary based code in order to communicate (as long as the dictionary is not compromised).

I work in technology and  thus I cannot completely stop using my computer systems. I attempt to keep up with the latest security issues (exploits, patches, etc) and keep my systems as secure as possible. But if someone really wants to avoid all surveillance the only way I can think is to avoid using the system entirely.

Could you make a program that produces a dictionary code each time that only one other computer understands, and keep changing it, at least to slow them down (because this is important for rampant industrial espionage from China), or is there some better way?
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Offline White Israelite

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2013, 12:31:18 AM »
The issue isn't that the encryption can be cracked (yet) but rather the type of encryption, the length of the key, and the threats of discovering that key

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279619

Some weaker encryption methods like ssl can be easily cracked because computing technology today is capable of cracking it, however as 256 bit encryption refers to a mathematical algorithm which if there was an attempt to brute force it, the maximum attempts would be  1.1 x 10 to the 77th power. Even with a super computer it would take 1 billion years to crack a key that's 256 bit assuming that was what was being used. We simply do not have the technology at this time to handle that kind of encryption, the amount of power that would need to be used would far exceed what we have available at this time. That is not to say in the future that there will be technology, obviously quantum computing could change that in the near future.

To make the technology even more sophisticated, if tor and i2p were used in the way they were supposed to for internal darknets only and individual users had secure operating systems, disabled java, JavaScript and flash, and wiped memory, then the technology would be relatively secure, the way tor project works is you use http traffic over a local proxy running on your computer that routes you through onion routing using a list of peers acting as nodes to route your traffic, each data packet is encrypted in layers hence the name onion routing, each packet has its own key and can only be decrypted upon reaching each node until it hits the exit node. That in its self makes the architecture and design secure for plausible deniability.

The problem is not in the encryption, the problem is that you don't know who the exit node is hence the exit node once data is decrypted may not know who the user was that requested data to be sent back, however if say you login to facebook in plaintext or jtf, then the individual on the exit node is sniffing the packets, they can find out so and so username was using them as a exit node and build a profile.

The other problem as previously mentioned is with sites that are infected with iframe or another good example would be youtube, while your http traffic may be encrypted, when you view a video in flash, it is not encrypted since data from flash would make a direct connection via a separate port from 80 and transmit data outside of the local proxy hence collecting information on the operating system, the browser, etc.

The last vulnerability would be the issue of data being retained in memory, and so an example would be lets say you encrypt your data with truecrypt on your computer in a encrypted container, you dismount believing the data to be encrypted, the problem is your encryption key is stored in memory which all data content is temporary mounted in memory as well known as a memory footprint, that means a forensics agent could do a memory dump and extract the key even though you dismounted the encrypted container and believed it to be decrypted. The truth is computers need to be completely powered down or the memory dump overwritten and cleared to encrypt the file.

The issue is not encryption technology, it's the carlessness of users who don't properly secure themselves use weak passwords and don't know enough about the technology to properly use it, but as stated, nothing is 100 percent secure, again I have studied forensics for the past 4 years, I have countless books and experience about data retrieval, packet analysis, deep packet inspection, etc, I'm very familiar with the technology.

Stating that using tor means that your being watched would be similar to saying the Internet allows your computer to be watched, it's true that theoretically a Internet service provider COULD implement deep packet inspection like china to monitor entry points to the tor network that are known, and it wouldn't be difficult to filter that out, however tor in its self is not causing viruses to expose them or backdoored.

Aes 245 bit encryption algorithm is something like this


No. of Years to crack AES with 128-bit Key = (3.4 x 1038) / [(10.51 x 1012) x 31536000]
                = (0.323 x 1026)/31536000
                = 1.02 x 1018
                = 1 billion billion years



If you assume:
Every person on the planet owns 10 computers.
There are 7 billion people on the planet.
Each of these computers can test 1 billion key combinations per second.
On average, you can crack the key after testing 50% of the possibilities.

Then the earth's population can crack one encryption key in 77,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years!


Infact if you look on the net, you will find cases of court cases being tossed because aes 256 bit encryption couldn't be cracked, if you look for articles on the net, read very carefully through the articles that claim the encryption has been cracked and you will find that the only time access has been gained was through the threat models I mentioned, a strong passphrase and encrypted layers of packets are not impossible to crack but are extremely difficult to gain information with our current technology.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 12:43:32 AM by White Israelite »

Offline Shlomo

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2013, 01:32:15 AM »
Excellent and accurate information, White Israelite. I studied cryptography in fairly good depth. Also, the algorithms used (like Triple DES, AES-256, Blowfish, Serpent, and Twofish) are very important as well as the key size (which exponentially increases the time to crack the encryption unless using a brute force attack against a weak password or public key with a weak passphrase).

I will say, however, that as technology gets faster and more processors are used, the time it takes to decrypt data becomes exponentially shorter.
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Offline muman613

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2013, 03:26:27 AM »
Excellent and accurate information, White Israelite. I studied cryptography in fairly good depth. Also, the algorithms used (like Triple DES, AES-256, Blowfish, Serpent, and Twofish) are very important as well as the key size (which exponentially increases the time to crack the encryption unless using a brute force attack against a weak password or public key with a weak passphrase).

I will say, however, that as technology gets faster and more processors are used, the time it takes to decrypt data becomes exponentially shorter.

That is my point exactly. Processors have become exponentially faster in my lifetime. Parallel processing (multi-threaded CPUs) and other techniques of super-computing are advancing quickly. Do not rely on existing encryption techniques to remain uncrackable.

I believe there have been flaws discovered in some of these encryption algorithms. Shlomo did not mention SHA1 because it has been discovered to have some flaws...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-1

The original specification of the algorithm was published in 1993 as the Secure Hash Standard, FIPS PUB 180, by U.S. government standards agency NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology). This version is now often referred to as SHA-0. It was withdrawn by NSA shortly after publication and was superseded by the revised version, published in 1995 in FIPS PUB 180-1 and commonly referred to as SHA-1. SHA-1 differs from SHA-0 only by a single bitwise rotation in the message schedule of its compression function; this was done, according to NSA, to correct a flaw in the original algorithm which reduced its cryptographic security. However, NSA did not provide any further explanation or identify the flaw that was corrected. Weaknesses have subsequently been reported in both SHA-0 and SHA-1. SHA-1 appears to provide greater resistance to attacks[citation needed], supporting the NSA’s assertion that the change increased the security.

Now just because SHA1 had security problems doesn't mean that all algorithms are flawed. But there may be undiscovered flaws in every algorithm.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Shlomo

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 06:15:02 PM »
I believe there have been flaws discovered in some of these encryption algorithms. Shlomo did not mention SHA1 because it has been discovered to have some flaws...

SHA1 is not encryption. It's a hash algorithm.

No encryption is perfect. That's a fundamental of cryptography. If there was a perfect one, then there would be no need for variants. But most strong encryption algorithms serve their purpose effectively (when used correctly).
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2013, 09:45:35 PM »
I won't use ( Tor ) unless they start making very loud bullhorns. I hope the Government watches and listens to every word. I am sick to death of the US Government polices. I think everyone that uses a weapon in the commission of a crime ( Aggravated ) should be put to death within a month. This applies to sex offenders as well. I believe the Fort Hood shooter should face a firing squad tomorrow morning. I think Obama should be impeached and deported along with his supporters to some far away land. This is the reason we had WWII was to keep people like him from taking over our Nation.

I could go on but it would take several hours if not days.

That's the spirit. We're all on the list anyways; say it while you can.
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Offline Shlomo

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Re: If you use TOR, the government has been spying on you
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2013, 10:27:15 PM »
I very seriously doubt that the government considers us important enough or much of a threat. There is nothing to worry about.

Now that would change if (and when) we become a mass movement, G-d willing.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim