Author Topic: Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen May Join Forces  (Read 8733 times)

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Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen May Join Forces
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2013, 06:55:56 PM »
This is the Ukrainian Slavic pogrom I was referring to.

The Khmelnytsky Uprising (also known as the Khmel'nyts'kyi/Chmielnicki Uprising) was a Cossack rebellion in Ukraine between the years 1648–1657 which turned into a Ukrainian war of liberation from Poland. Under the command of Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky, the Zaporozhian Cossacks allied with the Crimean Tatars, and the local peasantry, fought several battles against the armies and paramilitary forces of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The result was an eradication of the control of the Polish szlachta and their Jewish intermediaries, and the end of ecclesiastical jurisdiction for the Latin Rite Catholics (as well as Karaites, and other arendators) over the country. The Uprising has taken on a symbolic meaning in the story of Ukraine's relationship with Russia. It resulted in the incorporation of eastern Ukraine into the Tsardom of Muscovy at the Pereiaslav Agreement, where the Cossacks swore an oath of allegiance to the tsar. This, according to the poet and artist, Taras Shevchenko, brought about his people's 'enslavement' under Russia.[1]

The Uprising started as the rebellion of the Cossacks, but as other Orthodox Christian classes (peasants, burghers, petty nobility) of the Ukrainian palatinates joined them, the ultimate aim became a creation of Ukrainian autonomous state.[2] The Uprising succeeded in ending the Polish influence over those Cossack lands that were eventually taken by the Tsardom of Russia . These events, along with internal conflicts and hostilities with Sweden and Russia, resulted in severely diminished Polish power during this period (referred to in Polish history as The Deluge). The failure of the Cossacks to consolidate their victory led to the Ruin (Ukrainian history).


Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen May Join Forces
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2013, 07:00:06 PM »
Jews

Most Jewish Ukrainian communities were devastated by the uprising and ensuing massacres, though occasionally a Jewish population was spared, notably after the sack of the town of Brody (the population of which was 70% Jewish). The Jews of Brody were judged and "deemed as not engaged in maltreatment of the Ruthenians" and were instead required to pay a tribute in "textiles and furs".[12]

The uprising also led to a decree on July 3, 1661, at the Council of Vilna in which Jewish elders banned merrymaking, including the setting of limitations on wedding celebrations, public drinking, fire dances, masquerades and Jewish comic entertainers.[13] Stories about massacre victims who had been buried alive, cut to pieces or forced to kill one another spread throughout Europe and beyond. These stories filled many with despair, and resulted in a revival of the ideas of Isaac Luria, and the identification of Sabbatai Zevi as the Messiah.[14]

The entire Jewish population of the Commonwealth in that period (1618–1717) has been estimated to have been about 200,000.[15] Most Jews lived outside Ukraine in the territories unaffected by the uprising, as the Jewish population of Ukraine of that period is estimated at about 50,000.[16]

The accounts of contemporaneous Jewish chroniclers of the events tended to emphasize large casualty figures, but they have been re-evaluated downwards at the end the 20th century, when modern historiographic methods, particularly from the realm of historical demography, became more widely adopted.[9] According to Orest Subtelny:

Weinryb cites the calculations of S. Ettinger indicating that about 50,000 Jews lived in the area where the uprising occurred. See B. Weinryb, "The Hebrew Chronicles on Bohdan Khmelnytsky and the Cossack-Polish War", Harvard Ukrainian Studies 1 (1977): 153-77. While many of them were killed, Jewish losses did not reach the hair-raising figures that are often associated with the uprising. In the words of Weinryb ("The Jews of Poland", 193-4), "The fragmentary information of the period—and to a great extent information from subsequent years, including reports of recovery—clearly indicate that the catastrophe may have not been as great as has been assumed."[17]

Early 20th-century estimates of Jewish deaths were based on the accounts of the Jewish chroniclers of the time, and tended to be high, ranging from 100,000 to 500,000 or more; in 1916 Simon Dubnow stated:

The losses inflicted on the Jews of Poland during the fatal decade 1648-1658 were appalling. In the reports of the chroniclers, the number of Jewish victims varies between one hundred thousand and five hundred thousand. But even if we accept the lower figure, the number of victims still remains colossal, even exceeding the catastrophes of the Crusades and the Black Death in Western Europe. Some seven hundred Jewish communities in Poland had suffered massacre and pillage. In the Ukrainian cities situated on the left banks of the Dnieper, the region populated by Cossacks... the Jewish communities had disappeared almost completely. In the localities on the right shore of the Dneiper or in the Polish part of the Ukraine as well as those of Volhynia and Podolia, wherever Cossacks had made their appearance, only about one tenth of the Jewish population survived.[18]

From the 1960s to the 1980s historians still considered 100,000 a reasonable estimate of the Jews killed and, according to Edward Flannery, many considered it "a minimum".[19] Max Dimont in Jews, God, and History, first published in 1962, writes "Perhaps as many as 100,000 Jews perished in the decade of this revolution." [20] Edward Flannery, writing in The Anguish of the Jews: Twenty-Three Centuries of Antisemitism, first published in 1965, also gives figures of 100,000 to 500,000, stating "Many historians consider the second figure exaggerated and the first a minimum".[19] Martin Gilbert in his Jewish History Atlas published in 1976 states "Over 100,000 Jews were killed; many more were tortured or ill-treated, others fled..."[21] Many other sources of the time give similar figures.[22]

Although many modern sources still give estimates of Jews killed in the uprising at 100,000[23] or more,[24] others put the numbers killed at between 40,000 and 100,000,[25] and recent academic studies have argued fatalities were even lower.

A 2003 study by Israeli demographer Shaul Stampfer of Hebrew University dedicated solely to the issue of Jewish casualties in the uprising concludes that 18,000-20,000 Jews were killed out of a total population of 40,000.[26] Paul Robert Magocsi states that Jewish chroniclers of the 17th century "provide invariably inflated figures with respect to the loss of life among the Jewish population of Ukraine. The numbers range from 60,000-80,000 (Nathan Hannover) to 100,000 (Sabbatai Cohen), but that "[t]he Israeli scholars Shmuel Ettinger and Bernard D. Weinryb speak instead of the 'annihilation of tens of thousands of Jewish lives', and the Ukrainian-American historian Jarowlaw Pelenski narrows the number of Jewish deaths to between 6,000 and 14,000".[27] Orest Subtelny concludes:

Between 1648 and 1656, tens of thousands of Jews—given the lack of reliable data, it is impossible to establish more accurate figures—were killed by the rebels, and to this day the Khmelnytsky uprising is considered by Jews to be one of the most traumatic events in their history.[17]

In the two decades following the uprising the Commonwealth suffered two more major wars (The Deluge and Russo-Polish War (1654–1667); during that period total Jewish casualties are estimated as at least 100,000.[10]


Offline serbian army

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Re: Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen May Join Forces
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2013, 07:45:55 PM »
Very well written articles...Polish Catholics lost control over Orthodox Kozaci..text states that the Jews were in Polish army fighting the Kozaci..all the Jews but those in city of Brody..now think for the moment that Kozaci wanted liberation for many years..after the liberation from Polish rule Kozaci took terrible revange on the Jews..same thing happened to the muslims after the Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Macedonians, Montenegrians, liberated their land from the Ottomans..local muslim population that sided with Ottomas suffered greatly..what Jews went through is horrible but my point is that Kozaci did not kill them out of hate just because they are Jews but because they sided with occupiers..had the Jews sided with Kozaci not a single Jew would have been killed..it was after all the war in which the Jews fought and paid terrible price..this is how I look on it..now I am ready for many insults
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Offline muman613

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Re: Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen May Join Forces
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2013, 07:52:15 PM »
I have related several times the story of the Massacre of Uman in Ukraine, a famous pogrom of the 18th century...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman

Massacre of Uman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Massacre of Uman was the 1768 massacre of the Jews, Poles and Ukrainian Uniates at Uman in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Ukrainian rebel Haidamak army.

Uman was a well-fortified town that held a large garrison part of Polish troops. This fact made Uman one of the primary targets of Koliyivschyna movement, and, probably, the siege of Uman was planned well in advance. Ivan Gonta, an officer in the private militia of Count Franciszek Salezy Potocki (composed of Registered Cossacks) was accused of connections with haidamakas by local Jewish community three months before the siege; however, due to the lack of hard evidence and the sudden death of a star witness on his road to Uman no formal charges were made. Although Ivan Gonta was de facto the commander of Uman cossacks he was not the most senior in their ranks.

In early June 1768 the Ukrainian rebels under the command of Maksym Zalizniak marched on Uman after capturing Cherkasy, Korsun and Kaniv. As Zalizniak openly encouraged the slaughter of Jews and Poles, the town was filled with refugees. A large camp filled with Polish nobility and their private militia, regular soldiers and Jewish refugees was stationed outside the city walls. Polish troops outnumbered the forces of rebels, and therefore it was decided that some of the forces should guard the ramparts while Gonta with his cossack unit would meet the Haidamakas in open battle. However, when Gonta met Zalizniak's units he openly declared that he is going to join Koliyivschyna. Some sources claim that the formal commanders of the unit were sent back to Uman, although the authenticity of the story is highly disputed.

The united troops razed the encampment on June 14 and tried to penetrate the ramparts by concealing the rebels behind the backs of Gonta's Registered Cossacks. However, the attempt failed, and so the siege started on June 17. The very first day large number of Ukrainians deserted the ranks of Polish forces and joined the rebels when the city was surrounded.

After three days of the siege the city fell to Zalizniak in spite of a courageous defense in which the Jews also played an active role. The tragic event occurred after the betrayal of commandant Mladanovitch, who wanted to buy the lives of Poles betraying Jews to Zaliznak and Gonta. This evolved into the violent and bloody massacre (where Mladanovitch was himself killed). The Jews then gathered in the synagogues, where they were led by Leib Shargorodski and Moses Menaker in an attempt to defend themselves, but they were destroyed by cannon fire. Most of the remaining Jews in the city were subsequently killed. According to earlier estimates the number of Poles and Jews massacred was 20,000.[1] The estimate given by Gonta for self-embellishment during his trial was 33,000. These numbers are considered exaggerated by the modern historyography, with numbers of Poles and Jews who were killed in the “massacre of Uman” estimated at ca. 2,000.[2]
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