Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over

[muman613]

When I post about this topic I usually get some people who want to know where 'zealotry' fits in, how the Kahanist ideal can be expressed when we have so many Jewish traitors. I have heard Chaims explanation and I fully agree with him on everything.

There most certainly is a place in Judaism for zealotry as clearly demonstrated in the Torah portion of Pinchas. But it must be clear that Zealotry in Judaism is only meritorious if it contains no personal agenda nor self aggrandizing. We say we want to stone the homosexual it must be not because we hate the homosexual, but rather because Hashem commanded us to do so we must do so. Because we must hate evil we must eradicate it from our midst, not to make us better than others, but because Hashem said we must.

Zealotry is good when it is done in order to make Hashem's name great in this world...


http://ravkooktorah.org/PINCHAS_65.htm

Pinchas: Genuine Zealotry

"Pinchas... zealously avenged My cause among the Israelites.... Therefore, tell him that I have given him My covenant of peace." (Num. 25:11-12)

Why did God present Pinchas, the archetypical zealot, with a covenant of peace? What was the nature of this covenant?

The Prayer of Shemuel HaKatan

The Talmud (Berachot 28b) recounts that Rabban Gamliel, who headed the Sanhedrin in Yavneh after the destruction of Jerusalem, saw the need to make an addition to the daily prayer. The Jewish people needed heavenly protection against heretics and informers. But Rabban Gamliel had trouble finding a scholar capable of composing such a prayer.

In the end, Shemuel HaKatan ('Samuel the modest') agreed to formulate the prayer, called Birkat HaMinim. Why was it so difficult to find a scholar to author this prayer? What made Shemuel HaKatan so qualified for the task?

By its very nature, prayer is a medium of harmony and understanding, full of kindness and love. Any scholar on an appropriate spiritual level is capable of writing prayers that are fitting for a holy and wise nation.

A prayer decrying slanderers and heretics, however, touches upon powerful emotions of hostility and anger. We naturally feel hatred towards our foes and the enemies of our people. To compose a fitting prayer against enemies requires an individual who is utterly pure and holy, one who has succeeded in eliminating all hatred and petty resentments from his heart. In order that such a prayer will be pure, its sole intention must be to limit the damage and correct the evil caused by the wicked, as they impede the world's spiritual and ethical progress. It is for the sake of this pure, unselfish motive that we plead that God vanquish the wicked and foil their evil plans.

Even though one's initial motives are pure, if he is subject to even the slightest feelings of animosity that are naturally aroused when one feels attacked, his thoughts will be tainted by personal hatred, and his prayer will deviate from the true intent. Only Shemuel HaKatan was a suitable candidate to compose this difficult prayer. His life's motto was "Do not rejoice when your enemy falls"  (Avot 4:24). Shemuel succeeded in removing all feelings of enmity from his heart, even for personal enemies. Only this saintly scholar was able to compose a prayer against slanderers that would convey the feelings of a pure heart, expressing the soul's inner aspirations for complete universal good.

Refining Zeal

From Shemuel HaKatan we see that zealotry is not a simple matter. Zeal must be carefully refined to ensure that it is truly for the sake of heaven. As Rav Kook explained in Orot HaKodesh (vol. III, p. 244):

"We need to refine the attribute of zeal, so that when it enters the realm of the holy, it should be a pure zeal for God. Since zealotry often contains some slight influence of human failings, our powers of self-examination must determine its primary motive. We must ensure that it is not based on personal jealousy, which rots one's very bones, but rather a zeal for God, which provides a covenant of peace."

When God gave Pinchas a covenant of peace, He affirmed that Pinchas' act of zealotry — defending the Jewish people from idolatrous influences — was performed with pure motives. Only God could testify as to the purity of Pinchas' zeal, that he had acted solely for the sake of Heaven, without any admixture of pettiness or personal animosity. Pinchas' zeal was the product of his burning love for God, an expression of his desire to bring true peace (shalom) and perfection (shleimut) to the world.

(Gold from the Land of Israel, pp. 275-277. Adapted from Olat Re'iyah vol. I, p. 278)

[Every Jew AK47]

I appreciate the time you have taken to make such a deep, comprehensive post, using Talmudic wisdom to help explain the issues at hand.  I have only had brief time to skim over the large amount of information you have written, but will take time to read them in more detail later.  However, let me address a few points on your first response:

A Jew is not perfect, we never were intended to be perfect, and despite our imperfection Hashem still loves us and walks with us. Judaism is not a contest of 'holier than though' attitudes either. Some of your comments seem to draw comparisons between what you believe Judaism is supposed to be, and the failings of those you observe from attaining those lofty goals. We are commanded to be the best we can be, a slogan the US Army molded into 'BE ALL YOU CAN BE' which is a goal we all should try to attain. Hashem does not ask more from us than we can acheive, he gives us all we need to acheive our personal and national missions and it is up to us to make use of our G-d given talents to change the world in a positive way.

  Muman, I am not the one to condemn or point the finger..  In fact, it is I who is the hunted one, I am the one that people mock , insult and consider Inferior.  I  only wish the Jews at the synagogues I have attended could live up to the standards that you are promoting here in your post.  Sadly, I feel the holier than thou attitude and the attitude of superiority and narcissism very strongly among the Jews I am around.  It seems everyone is out to make a name for themselves and promote their own superiority rather than form a chavurah and help bring Jews together, lifting one another up and help one another along the way.  An, example is when the Shadchan at the Sefardic kehillot I attended said no woman will marry me at the kehillot because my income is too low.  That was a big F YOU to me and a sign I was not as worthy of Jewish Olam Haba as they were.  My rabbi then proceeded to tell me to sign up for J-Date, since I couldn't marry anyone there.   I said, no thanks, I don't want the table scraps, I'll stay celibate, since I am considered inferior in my own community.    Basically, my credentials have disqualified me as being a Jew in their eyes.  My zealotry, desire, kindness , etc means nothing .  Did the fact me going to Africa to help dying widows and orphans hold any weight on my character? No..  People were more impressed with each other's cars or the type of camp or school their kids were attending.  The only praise I received at the Sefardic kehillot I attended was about the nice watch I was wearing.  Actually, I got the watch 60% off and only paid $150 for it, but it looks like a $1000 watch.  All the people dressed up so nicely at this wealthy community  that I tried my best with my ability to get good deals on liquidated attire/accessories to fit in.   

One of the main concepts of Judaism is caring for our fellow Jews, no matter how far or close they are to Hashem. Hashem says in the Torah to love our enemies (of course not physical enemies who want to kill us) and to not bear a grudge against them, we are to honestly and lovingly rebuke them in the attempt to return them to the correct path. We should not give rebuke which pushes a person farther from Hashem though, which is one reason rebuke is such a difficult commandment.

There are all kinds of bad issues within the Jewish communities, both the religious and irreligious. This is a fact of life and the Torah recognizes this. Only Hashsem knows what is truly in the hearts of men. Is a person pious or is he a sinner? We can only guess what the calculation Hashem uses to determine these issues.

I am not one to rebuke, but I am constantly looked down on and rebuked.    However, I will rebuke when I see atrocities committed.  As much as I respect the wisdom you are sharing Muman, I also think this mindset can be destructive and dangerous.  Where do we draw the line?  If my synagogue just ordained a lesbian rabbi, for sake of not rebuking my fellow Jew or risking lashon hara, should I just shut my mouth and go with the flow?   EVen though I consider myself the lowest of all Jews (e.g.I have only a few prayers memorized), I still feel a burning driving fire inside myself to speak out when I see people watering down Hashem's laws and trying to destroy the foundations that were built with sweat, blood and suffering of our ancestors.

My advice is always to work on yourself first, make yourself strong in your faith, make your mitzvot important to your lifestyle. Your making the mitzvot important to your life will have added effects on those who are around you. Work on your character traits in a way which makes you more dear to your fellow Jew, concentrate on the traits of compassion and mercy (two of the most revered traits of Hashem) and do not worry about stoning homosexuals. The laws concerning forbidden relationships is not as important as making yourself strong, and influencing others around you.

I don't hate homosexuals.. Heck, I don't even think we should stone them..  I just think they have no place in our synagogues and I think saying Judaism accepts homosexuality, allowing gay people to attend our kehillot, have gay marriages, etc is an abomination and any Jew who advocates this, in my eyes, is worse than a homosexual, him/herself.    Homosexuality is becoming very prevalent in the Conservative and Reform movement and I can see it is started to make its way into the Orthodox movement now.  IF we just sit back and shut our mouths for fear of offending our fellow Jew, we will find that our communities will be infiltrated and foundations will be destroyed for the sake of our emotions and fear of offending man.  But what if for the sake of pleasing man, we offend Hashem??

You should want to give money to your community, you should want to better the Jewish people around you. They are your family. It was this which led me to Teshuva, when a black Christian neighbor said 'Go back to your people'. The Jewish people are MY people, and they should be your people too.

Maybe, my community should give me money too?  If my rabbi is driving a very expensive car and living in a mansion, like the rabbis at the Chabad's I was visiting and I am struggling to make it, living in an inexpensive rental and risking being homeless every day, as my small bankrupted business is dwindling, may I ask, who should be giving who money?   Isn't a Jewish community, more than just giving lots of money to the Rabbi and synagogue, but also helping your fellow Jews?   If I am the poorest Jew, rather than telling me I am not welcomed, because I can not make the dues, maybe one of my wealthy brothers from the community can help a hard working, determined (not lazy, freeloading) Jew , like myself, to make his way into the community.   If I had as much cash as the Rabbis or many of members of the communities I was attending, I would not even think twice about donating lots of money to the kehillot.  As a matter of fact, many wealthy Jews boldly proclaim their donations on Shabbat to show how much they are giving.  I was told this practice use to be forbidden in ancient times, but now, somehow, vowing your donations out loud on Shabbat is considered honorable. 

I love all Jews, whether they put on Tefillin, say Shema, light candles, or not... Every Jew who was born Jewish has a portion in the world to come, and we should want to help them back on the path to listening to Hashems voice. We should feel personal responsibility when we see fellow Jews acting in a shameful way.

I am the kind of guy who may jump in front of a bullet for my fellow Jew..  I always felt I loved my own people much more than they ever loved me..  Whether they dawn tefillin, recite all prayers, etc means little to me.  A kind, humble and noble heart to me is always the greatest virtue, not how many prayers you can recite or if you own a $10,000 pair of hand-made tefillin.

We should not try to shame them, embarass them, or hate them. We should think about what we can do to gently nudge them in the right direction and we will gain merit for every Jew we help.

For the sake of not embarrassing or shaming anyone I vent my frustration here.. Nobody, knows what I think.  I am never allowed to say what I think .  Most Jews I know get very emotional if you even make the slightest criticism to them.  Perhaps, we can also be overly sensitive and this also has resulted in our communities from addressing some very serious issues??  Just a thought!

I do not think it is a panacea to believe that joining a Yemenite community will solve all your problems. That is called idealism and usually a person is disappointed when they find out that the other community suffers almost the same problems as the community which you left. Always believing it is better in some other community leads many to depression.

Do not seek a community which is evil, but judge each one for the good. This is another Jewish concept, the benefit of the doubt... We should not assume that a person who is sinning is an evil person, he or she is just acting foolishly and will some day realize his or her sin....

Don't knock it til you try it, Muman..  And, no, I don't agree that every community is the same.  Of course, no community will be perfect and every group of people will have their problems.  I guess I feel it is worth a try though.  I have spent enough time with Jews here in USA and know I have no luck with them and I am more or less not welcomed and not liked.  Sure, maybe the Yemenite Jewish communities will be snobby, cold , unfriendly, women will be dressing slutty and people will look down on me cause I am unmarried, etc.   But, at least I know I made the effort to find out for myself.  My friend David told me the people are quite different and are quite accepting and live very simple lives.  OF course, he was there in the 1970s, so who knows what it is like today.   However, I do know not all Jewish communities are the same.  For example, most of synagogues here are Conservative/Reform synagogues and their behavior is considerably different than what I would experience from an Ultra-Orthodox Charedi or Satmar synagogue in New York.   I have lot of respect for these ULtra Orthodox Jews, but do not feel connected to Yiddish culture.  If I felt more Yiddish/Ashkenazi I would think Satmar/Ultra Orthodox Charedi sect would be good way to go, but  I cannot live up to their strict standards and don't feel connected to the strict Yiddish minhag they practice.   My heart feels more Middle Eastern.

[muman613]

EJA44,

I can only relate how I experience my Chabad community and it seems much different than your experience. I attended for ten years without giving anything back. Now I feel I owe them because I see how they support others who do not have enough to give. We have a very good member, a Mizrachi fellow, who has fallen on bad times and has been unemployed for over a year now. He attends every Shabbat and Yom Tov and he is honored in our community. Last year I bought his etrog and four species for him, and I have contributed other times to support his mitzvot. I try to help everyone who comes through the doors at my Rabbis Chabad house.

I pray you find a community which will suit your needs. I believe you have a great Jewish neshama and I am of the belief your suffering will be for the good in the end. It is difficult to understand why you have to go through this at this time, but you should find a great reward at the end of the test...

Be humble, do not chase honor, and you will find that honor is coming to you...

http://www.torah.org/learning/integrity/fleehonor2.html

[muman613]

Sorry to post so much information in a short time but here is another lesson from the great rabbi Hillel:


http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-13.html

Chapter 1 Mishna 13
By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld

The Challenge of Life

"He (Hillel) used to say, one who seeks a name loses his name, one who does not increase decreases, one who does not learn deserves death, and one who makes use of the crown [of Torah] will pass away."

This mishna was stated in rather poetic Aramaic, the spoken language during the Second Temple period and the language of much of the Talmud. It consists of short sayings focusing primarily on our attitude towards Torah study and growth. It's interesting to note, before beginning our discussion, that the same Hillel - who in the last mishna asked us to love peace and humanity in the spirit of Aharon - in this mishna requires us to have a much sterner attitude toward ourselves.

"One who seeks a name loses his name": One who actively seeks honor for himself will not be able to acquire it. The Talmud (Eruvin 13b) states, "One who runs after honor will have it run away from him; one who runs from honor will have it pursue him." Honor is an elusive animal. It should be viewed as an after-effect of true accomplishment. Do something honorable, and honor will follow. Pursue honor for its own sake, and you will achieve little more than demonstrate your unworthiness of honor.

"One who does not increase, decreases": This is understood by the commentators to refer to Torah study. One may not rest on his laurels in his accomplishments in acquiring knowledge, even if he has learned a lot. The Torah is infinite in breadth and depth (something I appreciate more and more the more I learn). We will never master it completely, but are obligated to continually grow in it and accept new challenges. We will learn (Chapter 2, Mishna 16), "It is not expected that you will finish the work, but you are not free to waste time from it." The language of this mishna - one who does increase decreases - creates a perception that study is a constant struggle, in which we either rise or fall, but never remain the same.

Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler, of England and later Israel, one of the great Jewish thinkers during and after the time of the War, explained that God constantly challenges each of us, and the type of test depends on each individual's level. For one person, say one raised in a strictly Orthodox home, the challenge may be to keep up his concentration for a 45 minute Shacharis (morning prayer service). For another, who had no such upbringing, the challenge may be to order fish at the MacDonald's rather than a cheeseburger. The Orthodox Jew who may let his mind wander at synagogue - though he would never dream of walking into a MacDonald's - may very well be slipping and in a sense farther from God than the non-affiliated who keeps kosher to his limited knowledge. As soon as a person wins or loses one challenge, he will be challenged with something slightly harder or easier. The higher a challenge we are ready for the better off we are, for it enables us to reach higher levels. But how close one is to God depends more on his or her direction than his current challenge-level.

Judaism places a great deal of emphasis on training and raising our children properly. Even at ages far too young to appreciate the significance of Judaism, they become ingrained with many of the laws and customs of our tradition. The purpose of this is basically to give them a head start in their life goals. They will not need to overcome challenges of keeping kosher or intermarrying, and will be ready to accept higher challenges. At the same time the Talmud (Berachos 34b) tells us, "Where those who repent stand (in proximity to God), fully righteous do not stand." One who has tasted sin and then separates himself has covered more ground and has accomplished more than one who has never faced such temptations. Still, we do not ask for additional challenges, not knowing if we'll pass them. God does have His ways, however, and despite our best precautions God may challenge us by placing us in less than ideal circumstances (spending a Sabbath at the airport etc.).

Hillel continues by stating "one who does not learn, deserves death." There is nothing as unforgivable as one who never accepts life's challenges in the first place. Before winning or losing challenges, one must accept that there is a purpose to his life. We may very well lose some battles, but we must never fail to recognize that there is a war.

(The final statement of the mishna, "one who makes use of the crown [of Torah] will pass away", will appear again in Chapter 4 Mishna 5 and will be discussed God willing there.)

Pirkei-Avos, Copyright (c) 1999 by Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and Project Genesis, Inc.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I appreciate the time you have taken to make such a deep, comprehensive post, using Talmudic wisdom to help explain the issues at hand.  I have only had brief time to skim over the large amount of information you have written, but will take time to read them in more detail later.  However, let me address a few points on your first response:
  Muman, I am not the one to condemn or point the finger..  In fact, it is I who is the hunted one, I am the one that people mock , insult and consider Inferior.  I  only wish the Jews at the synagogues I have attended could live up to the standards that you are promoting here in your post.  Sadly, I feel the holier than thou attitude and the attitude of superiority and narcissism very strongly among the Jews I am around.  It seems everyone is out to make a name for themselves and promote their own superiority rather than form a chavurah and help bring Jews together, lifting one another up and help one another along the way.  An, example is when the Shadchan at the Sefardic kehillot I attended said no woman will marry me at the kehillot because my income is too low.  That was a big F YOU to me and a sign I was not as worthy of Jewish Olam Haba as they were.  My rabbi then proceeded to tell me to sign up for J-Date, since I couldn't marry anyone there.   I said, no thanks, I don't want the table scraps, I'll stay celibate, since I am considered inferior in my own community.    Basically, my credentials have disqualified me as being a Jew in their eyes.  My zealotry, desire, kindness , etc means nothing .  Did the fact me going to Africa to help dying widows and orphans hold any weight on my character? No..  People were more impressed with each other's cars or the type of camp or school their kids were attending.  The only praise I received at the Sefardic kehillot I attended was about the nice watch I was wearing.  Actually, I got the watch 60% off and only paid $150 for it, but it looks like a $1000 watch.  All the people dressed up so nicely at this wealthy community  that I tried my best with my ability to get good deals on liquidated attire/accessories to fit in.   
I am not one to rebuke, but I am constantly looked down on and rebuked.    However, I will rebuke when I see atrocities committed.  As much as I respect the wisdom you are sharing Muman, I also think this mindset can be destructive and dangerous.  Where do we draw the line?  If my synagogue just ordained a lesbian rabbi, for sake of not rebuking my fellow Jew or risking lashon hara, should I just shut my mouth and go with the flow?   EVen though I consider myself the lowest of all Jews (e.g.I have only a few prayers memorized), I still feel a burning driving fire inside myself to speak out when I see people watering down Hashem's laws and trying to destroy the foundations that were built with sweat, blood and suffering of our ancestors.

I don't hate homosexuals.. Heck, I don't even think we should stone them..  I just think they have no place in our synagogues and I think saying Judaism accepts homosexuality, allowing gay people to attend our kehillot, have gay marriages, etc is an abomination and any Jew who advocates this, in my eyes, is worse than a homosexual, him/herself.    Homosexuality is becoming very prevalent in the Conservative and Reform movement and I can see it is started to make its way into the Orthodox movement now.  IF we just sit back and shut our mouths for fear of offending our fellow Jew, we will find that our communities will be infiltrated and foundations will be destroyed for the sake of our emotions and fear of offending man.  But what if for the sake of pleasing man, we offend Hashem??


Maybe, my community should give me money too?  If my rabbi is driving a very expensive car and living in a mansion, like the rabbis at the Chabad's I was visiting and I am struggling to make it, living in an inexpensive rental and risking being homeless every day, as my small bankrupted business is dwindling, may I ask, who should be giving who money?   Isn't a Jewish community, more than just giving lots of money to the Rabbi and synagogue, but also helping your fellow Jews?   If I am the poorest Jew, rather than telling me I am not welcomed, because I can not make the dues, maybe one of my wealthy brothers from the community can help a hard working, determined (not lazy, freeloading) Jew , like myself, to make his way into the community.   If I had as much cash as the Rabbis or many of members of the communities I was attending, I would not even think twice about donating lots of money to the kehillot.  As a matter of fact, many wealthy Jews boldly proclaim their donations on Shabbat to show how much they are giving.  I was told this practice use to be forbidden in ancient times, but now, somehow, vowing your donations out loud on Shabbat is considered honorable. 
I am the kind of guy who may jump in front of a bullet for my fellow Jew..  I always felt I loved my own people much more than they ever loved me..  Whether they dawn tefillin, recite all prayers, etc means little to me.  A kind, humble and noble heart to me is always the greatest virtue, not how many prayers you can recite or if you own a $10,000 pair of hand-made tefillin.
For the sake of not embarrassing or shaming anyone I vent my frustration here.. Nobody, knows what I think.  I am never allowed to say what I think .  Most Jews I know get very emotional if you even make the slightest criticism to them.  Perhaps, we can also be overly sensitive and this also has resulted in our communities from addressing some very serious issues??  Just a thought!
Don't knock it til you try it, Muman..  And, no, I don't agree that every community is the same.  Of course, no community will be perfect and every group of people will have their problems.  I guess I feel it is worth a try though.  I have spent enough time with Jews here in USA and know I have no luck with them and I am more or less not welcomed and not liked.  Sure, maybe the Yemenite Jewish communities will be snobby, cold , unfriendly, women will be dressing slutty and people will look down on me cause I am unmarried, etc.   But, at least I know I made the effort to find out for myself.  My friend David told me the people are quite different and are quite accepting and live very simple lives.  OF course, he was there in the 1970s, so who knows what it is like today.   However, I do know not all Jewish communities are the same.  For example, most of synagogues here are Conservative/Reform synagogues and their behavior is considerably different than what I would experience from an Ultra-Orthodox Charedi or Satmar synagogue in New York.   I have lot of respect for these ULtra Orthodox Jews, but do not feel connected to Yiddish culture.  If I felt more Yiddish/Ashkenazi I would think Satmar/Ultra Orthodox Charedi sect would be good way to go, but  I cannot live up to their strict standards and don't feel connected to the strict Yiddish minhag they practice.   My heart feels more Middle Eastern.

Satmar? What the heck?

Middle Eastern? Like a ......

And no you did not post on Shabbat. I just thought it was odd you were on the computer on Shabbat, after complaining about others.

[Every Jew AK47]

When was I on my computer on Shabbat?

Never mind I am done on this forum this is my last post go talk all the drek about me you want.  Jews are great at insulting their own although you are not a Jew I am reading so maybe you should mine your own fing biz, do I tell you how to behave as a christian or whatever you are?

I'm sure you people will be happy when I am dead.  You people love talking crap but I wonder what anyone here us really doing to actually help save Israel except b1tch and complain on this forum.

[Israel Chai]

When was I on my computer on Shabbat?

Never mind I am done on this forum this is my last post go talk all the drek about me you want.  Jews are great at insulting their own although you are not a Jew I am reading so maybe you should mine your own fing biz, do I tell you how to behave as a christian or whatever you are?

I'm sure you people will be happy when I am dead.  You people love talking crap but I wonder what anyone here us really doing to actually help save Israel except b1tch and complain on this forum.

How could we be happy when you're dead. We don't know you. Honestly, you keep feeding your self-hating "humility" which is really pride, and you're going to go into a depression.

Ephy isn't Jewish, so I can't fault him like a would a Jew for being some sort of a reporter shabbat detective, but no one's talking [censored] about you. If what you're saying is serious, as my brother, I recommend you seek immediate psychological help, but I can't honestly see a normal Jew saying these things.

I'm pretty sure the saving Israel goes on in the Hebrew forum. This is more like the bitching and complaining and fund raising forum, from what I noticed, and they try to help America.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

When was I on my computer on Shabbat?

Never mind I am done on this forum this is my last post go talk all the drek about me you want.  Jews are great at insulting their own although you are not a Jew I am reading so maybe you should mine your own fing biz, do I tell you how to behave as a christian or whatever you are?

I'm sure you people will be happy when I am dead.  You people love talking crap but I wonder what anyone here us really doing to actually help save Israel except b1tch and complain on this forum.

I'm not a Jew, and I'm not a Christian! But don't lie to me... Don't bash Chabad when you're online on Shabbat. Tell me you were not on technology?

I like you, I'm just confused about you. ..

Getting yourself killed only makes you look weak in the eyes of HaShem!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

How could we be happy when you're dead. We don't know you. Honestly, you keep feeding your self-hating "humility" which is really pride, and you're going to go into a depression.

Ephy isn't Jewish, so I can't fault him like a would a Jew for being some sort of a reporter shabbat detective, but no one's talking [censored] about you. If what you're saying is serious, as my brother, I recommend you seek immediate psychological help, but I can't honestly see a normal Jew saying these things.

I'm pretty sure the saving Israel goes on in the Hebrew forum. This is more like the bitching and complaining and fund raising forum, from what I noticed, and they try to help America.

Samething.

[Israel Chai]

I'm not a Jew, and I'm not a Christian! But don't lie to me... Don't bash Chabad when you're online on Shabbat. Tell me you were not on technology?

I like you, I'm just confused about you. ..

Getting yourself killed only makes you look weak in the eyes of HaShem!

Ah, srry for calling you some kind of reporter shabbat detective, I didn't realize you were calling him a hypocrite, not talking about sins.

[muman613]

Listen...

I do believe EJA44 is Jewish... We are in a virtual world here and it is hard to determine who is who and when is when. Do you realize how much it would hurt to be accused of not being a Jew when you really are, and you really want to love your Jewish heritage? Should we push someone away just because they don't conform to what we expect from a fellow Jew. Maybe some things are said in depression and others in desperation...

I don't think we should push anyone away for what was said in these threads.

[Israel Chai]

Listen...

I do believe EJA44 is Jewish... We are in a virtual world here and it is hard to determine who is who and when is when. Do you realize how much it would hurt to be accused of not being a Jew when you really are, and you really want to love your Jewish heritage? Should we push someone away just because they don't conform to what we expect from a fellow Jew. Maybe some things are said in depression and others in desperation...

I don't think we should push anyone away for what was said in these threads.

Yeah, people straight up said I wasn't Jewish when I came here, and it's incredibly frustrating, because how are you really going to prove that online. I didn't say he was a goy though, just the way he's acting isn't exactly kosher, but of course, if he shows he can have humility and continue to talk despite that, assuming he's here l'shem shamayim, then the hand of brotherhood is always out. If someone said they wanted to kill my sister, no matter how evil, I would fight. There's still a chance, and if you try to help someone make teshuva, and they refuse, you get their share in the world to come. Even a beis din when the temple was standing wouldn't execute her, and Judaism is a lot to take in for someone who was never exposed to it, so promoting murder and calling it Judaism is going to have the opposite effect.