Author Topic: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!  (Read 7613 times)

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Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2014, 03:06:53 PM »
One almost murdered me...



And beside that, a Jew who has one is engaging in avodah zara, according to the Torah.

So it is a valid question why is a rabbi who attends a ramadan event worse than any Jew who has a xmas tree?
Okay...was it spiritually or physically?  If it was physically, you have to tell the story.  :::D
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2014, 03:19:31 PM »
The Kabah house the blackstone, which is most likely a meteorite. The blackstone had split into a couple of pieces during one of the muslim on muslim figthing over it so maybe it should now be call the black stones.

Look at all the Musrats of the world , some we know very well, coming to worship and honor the great black Stone.. Supposedly, the moon god's power is alive inside the stone.. 






Quote from: Veneration of Black Stone
The pagan gods of pre-Islamic Arabia were worshiped in the form of rectangular stones or rocks. For example, the pagan deity 'Al-Lat', mentioned in Qur'an 53:19, and believed by pre-Islamic pagans to be one of the daughters of Allah, was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta'if in Saudi Arabia. An edifice was built over the rock to mark it apart as a house of worship.

Al-lat stood in al-Ta'if, and was more recent than Manah. She was a cubic rock beside which a certain Jew used to prepare his barley porridge (sawiq). Her custody was in the hands of the banu-'Attab ibn-Malik of the Thayif, who had built an edifice over her. [...]She is the idol which God mentioned when He said, "Have you seen Al-lat and al-'Uzza (Surah 53:19)?[2]
Kitab Al-Asnam (The Book of Idols), p 14
"A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone, either a rock outcropping or a large boulder, often a rectangular or irregular black basaltic stone… of numerous baetyls, the best known is the Black-stone of the Ka’aba at Mecca which became the central shrine object in Islam".[3]
Encyclopedia Britannica
There is no denying that the Black Stone was one among many stones and idols venerated at the Ka’aba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Though Muhammad threw out 360 other objects at the Ka’aba, he retained this Black Stone and continued the practice of kissing it. It is this same stone that the pre-Islamic pagans once kissed, that Muslims kiss today when visiting Mecca.


Please keep the Kahanist movement strong and free of internal strife and drama.

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2014, 03:31:15 PM »
Okay...was it spiritually or physically?  If it was physically, you have to tell the story.  :::D

I may have told it before...

One night driving home from work (with my 1st Mustang) I was driving in the fast last (carpool lane) and before I could do anything I saw a Christmas tree which I suppose had fallen off the back of a truck while attempting to dispose of it, and my car hit it causing me to swerve into the second land. Luckily for me there was nobody in that lane so I survived with a crumpled front bumper...

After that accident I took the car to the dealer and traded it in for a GT.

I don't like how people dispose of their trees. Often leaving them in the streets for weeks.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2014, 03:39:03 PM »
I can care less about what muslims believe. It makes no difference. And as we know it is possible for those who do not believe in a religion to view practices in a biased light. We Jews have been accused of these very same things, that we pray to the wall (facing East), we make pilgrimages to Jerusalem, that Hashem has many names in the Torah (people think that means we worshipped many gods)... So I am not quick to judge what muslims do or do not believe.

I judge them based on their actions. And their actions stink. Until islam can peacefully coexist with the Jewish state, islam is my enemy. Not because of beliefs, but because they declared war on us.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2014, 03:39:30 PM »
בס''ד

Muslim Nazis have spent over 100 years trying to exterminate the Jewish people. These Islamic Amalekites have massacred tens of thousands of Jews and are sworn to carrying out another holocaust, G-d forbid.

This Semitic fungus who calls himself a "rabbi" wants to honor their monstrous religion and kiss the behinds of these Nazi mass murderers. He even adopts their insane Ramadan fast.

ימח שמו וזכרו שם רשעים ירקב (yimach shmo vezichro shem reshaim yirkav)

May the name and memory of this Semitic fungus be obliterated and may the name of the wicked rot.

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2014, 03:42:43 PM »
בס''ד

Muslim Nazis have spent over 100 years trying to exterminate the Jewish people. These Islamic Amalekites have massacred tens of thousands of Jews and are sworn to carrying out another holocaust, G-d forbid.

This Semitic fungus who calls himself a "rabbi" wants to honor their monstrous religion and kiss the behinds of these Nazi mass murderers. He even adopts their insane Ramadan fast.

ימח שמו וזכרו שם רשעים ירקב (yimach shmo vezichro shem reshaim yirkav)

May the name and memory of this Semitic fungus be obliterated and may the name of the wicked rot.

Wow, what a judgement for just having a fast with them... Is there a halachic basis for your cursing  him? Do you even know the facts of the case other than just rumors.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2014, 03:46:31 PM »
I just read the article and while I strongly disagree with his position (as I do believe it is useless for 'interfaith' services) I do not join in cursing him.

While I recognize everyones right to bless or curse as he or she pleases. I do not believe that this rises to the Y'S curse... But again, Chaim may have better reason than I know.

If any of those attending this event are terrorists or support terrorism against the Jewish state then I would join in cursing him. But at this time the article did not mention any terror or 'radical' ties. Again I do not think islam is a valid belief, and I think that muslims in general are pre-disposed to Jew hatred.... But it may be possible with so-called 'moderate' muslims in England, to appeal to them and change their opinions.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2014, 03:50:27 PM »
I just read the article and while I strongly disagree with his position (as I do believe it is useless for 'interfaith' services) I do not join in cursing him.

While I recognize everyones right to bless or curse as he or she pleases. I do not believe that this rises to the Y'S curse... But again, Chaim may have better reason than I know.

If any of those attending this event are terrorists or support terrorism against the Jewish state then I would join in cursing him. But at this time the article did not mention any terror or 'radical' ties. Again I do not think islam is a valid belief, and I think that muslims in general are pre-disposed to Jew hatred.... But it may be possible with so-called 'moderate' muslims in England, to appeal to them and change their opinions.

בס''ד

Muman, how long have you been on this forum?

Islam is terrorism. The Koran is Mein Kampf.

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2014, 03:56:50 PM »
בס''ד

Muman, how long have you been on this forum?

Islam is terrorism. The Koran is Mein Kampf.

Chaim,

I hate islam as much as anyone here. You know my story... I have skin in the game (as they say)...

And while I do not believe 'moderate islam' has much of a future it may catch on (like deformed 'Judaism' caught on)... There may be some small change which could come about. Maybe I am foolish.  But I think that there are some people caught up in islam who are on the fence and it may be possible to change their views slightly.

I do not suggest we take this as a sign things are getting better between Islam and Judaism. It will take much more from the muslims to show that they reject the teachings of the koran and eliminate those who believe the Jew hating teachings... Is it possible? I don't know...

But I am careful about cursing Jews... That is my issue.

PS: You know I join in cursing NK... I have rebuked them via email several times, and now have openly called for cursing of their sect.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2014, 05:08:52 PM »
I can care less about what muslims believe. It makes no difference. And as we know it is possible for those who do not believe in a religion to view practices in a biased light. We Jews have been accused of these very same things, that we pray to the wall (facing East), we make pilgrimages to Jerusalem, that Hashem has many names in the Torah (people think that means we worshipped many gods)... So I am not quick to judge what muslims do or do not believe.

I judge them based on their actions. And their actions stink. Until islam can peacefully coexist with the Jewish state, islam is my enemy. Not because of beliefs, but because they declared war on us.



Muman, there is a great difference between praying at the Kotel and praying at the Ka'bah..  First of all, the Kotel is the remants of the wall that surrounded the Beit Mikdash.  Jews have never worshipped the Kotel or the Temple, but worshipped in the Temple.  Also, the Kotel is part of the Jewish scriptures and sanctified by Hashem.   The Ka'bah itself is a manifestation of ancient Arabian idol worship.  Many Arabic deities themselves were worshiped in the form of stones.  It was believed that their gods would dwell within these objects and there power would be exhibited through the worship of the objects.    This type of practice predates Islam and is very ancient.  Some claim that some of these type of practices are sourced from Sanskrit and may contain some influences from Ancient Hinduism, but intermixed with various Arabian mythologies.  Also, since Muslims claim to be of an Abrahamic belief system, then pagan practices such as these are completely contrary to Abrahamic belief and prove that in fact, they are not an Abrahamic belief system, but rather a belief system based on Arabian mythology with some Abrahamic practices infused into them.    There has been plenty of research proving that the Ka'bah was built much later than the time of Avraham and that there was no possible way Avraham could have built the house of the black stone, refuting Mohammad's bogus claims in the Qur'an/Hadiths.

What makes the Ka'bah and the black stone an idol is that the object itself is considered to be the manifestation of allah on earth.    The Jews never worship the Temple or even the Ark of the Covenant, but rather honor G-d there as this is his holy sanctuary.   No object, itself , has power or is worshipped, but rather the presence of Hashem dwelling in his most holy sanctuary.

Contrary, the Ka'bah is purely sourced from idol worship.  The black stones were idols that were worshiped and considered to be the manifestation of their gods on earth.  They actually believe that allah is inside the stone and that the stone is their god.  That is why they make pilgrimage (Hajj) to the stone and pray towards the stone and come to kiss the stone.  There is nothing biblical about it, but if you study arabian mythology you will see that these stones are in fact various arabian gods, where Al-iLah, the moon god of war, is considered the most honored and respected of all the gods of Arabia.  It was through this pagan deity and this black stone that Mohammad was able to unite the warring Arabian tribes and promote the Islamic religion.  BY uniting the tribes to worship this one black stone, he was able to conquer a good portion of the world and promote this religion throughout the world.
Please keep the Kahanist movement strong and free of internal strife and drama.

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2014, 05:36:03 PM »
Our forefathers were Idol worshippers too.. Abrahams father himself was the biggest idol maker in his country... Jews, even in the time of the prophets, relapsed to idolatry time and again...

I am not seeking to justify it, nor am I as informed as to islamic history or belief, but I am just saying it is difficult to know (from my perspective) if they are worshipping the stone or what it represents. As I posted previously, the nations of the world would sacrifice animals for pagan gods before Hashem commanded the Jews to only sacrifice to Hashem at the site of the Temple mount.

I know I have heard antisemites make these charges that Judaism is based on pagan religions...

References:


http://www.aish.com/tp/i/ky/48951511.html

Quote
From the Passover Haggadah:

"Originally our forefathers were idol worshippers, but now God has drawn us close to serve Him ... As the verse states, 'Your ancestors ... Terach, the father of Abraham and Nachor, worshipped other lords.'"

Relevant to us this week during the Parsha of Pinchas (who happens to also be Elijah the prophet)...

http://www.jewishamerica.com/ja/timeline/elijah.cfm

Reposted in the Torah section @ http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,76873.msg639110.html#msg639110
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2014, 05:39:21 PM »
I suppose my posts can be misunderstood as trying to justify islamic practice... That is not my intention, let me make that clear.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2014, 06:24:13 PM »
As far as I am concerned he is an imam.
Is there a way to excommunicate these chazirs in Judaism?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2014, 06:25:49 PM »
I may have told it before...

One night driving home from work (with my 1st Mustang) I was driving in the fast last (carpool lane) and before I could do anything I saw a Christmas tree which I suppose had fallen off the back of a truck while attempting to dispose of it, and my car hit it causing me to swerve into the second land. Luckily for me there was nobody in that lane so I survived with a crumpled front bumper...

After that accident I took the car to the dealer and traded it in for a GT.

I don't like how people dispose of their trees. Often leaving them in the streets for weeks.
Glad you're alive, but I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but this is rather funny.  :::D

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2014, 06:27:08 PM »
Look at all the Musrats of the world , some we know very well, coming to worship and honor the great black Stone.. Supposedly, the moon god's power is alive inside the stone..
This is the Christian view, I will admit, but it is perfectly possible that the moon god's power (meaning that of satan or one of his demons) is indeed alive in the big black rock, empowering tens of millions of Koranrat jihadists to go forth and commit mass murder in his name.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2014, 06:27:55 PM »
בס''ד

Muman, how long have you been on this forum?

Islam is terrorism. The Koran is Mein Kampf.
Don't you think you were a little harsh, Chaim?  ;D  :o :laugh:

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2014, 06:45:36 PM »
Is there a way to excommunicate these chazirs in Judaism?

No.. Without a universal deciding body there is no way to do this to any Jew... Judaism has such a concept but it is up to the individual sects to shun a party... I posted about this previously

Quote
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/excom2.html

All this is no more. Jewish law has not had the judicial authority to punish people in any of the manners described above for nearly two thousand years13. Indeed, Jewish law has functioned for the past two millennia with only two real jurisdictional bases to punish violations: the "pursuer" jurisdictional grant, and excommunication or shunning14. The pursuer rationale (in hebrew: rodef) is the jurisdictional source of power for a Jewish court or community to intervene15 to prevent a murder16. That area of Jewish law is widely known and much written about17, and irrelevant to the formation of a sub-society in modern times, as the class of cases it governs are crimes that are nearly always also violations of basic general moral principles and thus subject, on a practical level to concurrent jurisdiction within secular society and its organs of government. Thus the normal response -- even in a very insular, fastidiously observant, Jewish society -- to a murder would be to call the police18.

And apparently what this rabbi did would not rise to the level of excommunication because it is not clear that he violated any law...

Quote
III. Shunning: For What Offenses

Having established the legal basis for shunning and excommunication, it is now necessary to determine for what one is shunned62. As noted above, the theoretical talmudic law is clear: "one who violates any prohibition may be shunned.63" That is, however, only the beginning of the rule. One of the commentators immediately notes that this is limited to a situation where the person has already been formally warned that his public conduct violated Jewish law64. So too, one may not excommunicate or shun a person who unintentionally violated Jewish law; indeed, one may not, Jewish law rules, shun a person who is aware of what the rule of law is, tries to observe it, and occasionally slips65.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2014, 06:47:01 PM »
Glad you're alive, but I'm sorry if this sounds insensitive, but this is rather funny.  :::D

Yeah, funny in a way... But now I hate Christmas trees left on the sidewalk...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2014, 06:47:52 PM »
No.. Without a universal deciding body there is no way to do this to any Jew... Judaism has such a concept but it is up to the individual sects to shun a party... I posted about this previously

And apparently what this rabbi did would not rise to the level of excommunication because it is not clear that he violated any law...
Did you read EJA44's thread in which he discussed how he was excommunicated for opposing his BDS-supporting "rabbi" and his friend? This was Chabad, by the way, who are supposed to be above this lunacy.

So if Jews can be excommunicated for being right-wing, how can they not be excommunicated for fraternizing with the enemy?

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2014, 06:49:29 PM »
Did you read EJA44's thread in which he discussed how he was excommunicated for opposing his BDS-supporting "rabbi" and his friend? This was Chabad, by the way, who are supposed to be above this lunacy.

So if Jews can be excommunicated for being right-wing, how can they not be excommunicated for fraternizing with the enemy?

He was not excommunicated... I have spoken to him about this... He decided not to go back..

If he wanted to return he could. That is not excommunication. If you read the site I linked to it explains how the process of Jewish excommunication works. It involves a bit of halacha in order to achieve this. But as I said it is not possible today. If you don't like one Chabad you can go to another...


BTW, the rabbi you refer to is liked by EJA44. It is his decision to not participate in that community.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2014, 06:54:25 PM »
The negro-worshiping chazir Hoeseph "American Pruneface" Lieberman (ysv) was excommunicated from his Orthodox shul because he supports "partial birth" baby murder.

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2014, 06:56:35 PM »
As I said, there is no such thing as excommunication today. Being un-invited to one shul does not constitute excommunication (which would mean the entire Jewish community shuns the individual). If a person is not welcome to one synagogue he can find another one...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2014, 06:57:29 PM »
As I said, there is no such thing as excommunication today. Being un-invited to one shul does not constitute excommunication (which would mean the entire Jewish community shuns the individual). If a person is not welcome to one synagogue he can find another one...
The Pentateuch speaks of Jews being cut off from their people.

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2014, 07:00:31 PM »
The negro-worshiping chazir Hoeseph "American Pruneface" Lieberman (ysv) was excommunicated from his Orthodox shul because he supports "partial birth" baby murder.

Is there any proof of this? According to Ohr Samayach he is still a member of his Orthodox congregation...


http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/286/Q1/

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: English orthodox rabbi fasts for Ramadan!
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2014, 07:03:51 PM »
The Pentateuch speaks of Jews being cut off from their people.

That is spiritual excisement, not excommunication... Different ideas.

Karet is not excommunication.

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http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/10949/jewish/Karet.htm

Karet: (lit. “excision”); the cutting of the soul, causing premature death on the earthly plane and a severing of the soul’s connection with G-d on the spiritual plane

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1340046/jewish/Can-Someone-Be-Cut-Off-From-G-d.htm

The Torah states Karet (Being cut off) happens if a Jew does not circumcise his son, or he does not partake of the Passover offering.

http://www.torah.org/advanced/mikra/5757/br/dt.58.1.03.html

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This is My covenant that you shall keep...circumcise all of your males. The male that does not circumcise his flesh, that soul shall be cut off from its nation... (B'resheet 17:10,14).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14