18 yr old Israeli girl made sex slave For P.A. officials

[Dexter]

DWI, you need to realize how much you think and speak like a muslim before you go condemning a muslim girl who is used as a rape slave.

Great, now you are like Teran and SSN that claimed we are Judeo-Christians Jihadist, I think you should stop all this demagogic claims .

[DownwithIslam]

Dexter, nobody will remove your honored status, you will only be promoted. You should be made a moderator as you are more than qualified.
Thunderbolt, I don't sound like a muslim. Have I advocated killing infidels? Have I recommended female circumcision? Have I recommended beheadings? The fact is that treating muslims the way you treat civilized people will not work.

[Joe Schmo]

Dexter is certainly guilty of forcing that hideous, up-close photograph of that child molesting, murderous serpent down our throats.

I almost lost my lunch!

[Dexter]

Dexter is certainly guilty of forcing that hideous, up-close photograph of that child molesting, murderous serpent down our throats.

I almost lost my lunch!

molesting ?
anyway, i'll remove those pictures .

[DownwithIslam]

Ok can we stop. Chaim has said last week that he doesnt like this and that it embarrasses the forum. Me and dexter did not want to respond but we must uphold jewish values and defend our religion. Their is no reason to continue.

[Joe Schmo]

Dexter is certainly guilty of forcing that hideous, up-close photograph of that child molesting, murderous serpent down our throats.

I almost lost my lunch!

molesting ?
anyway, i'll remove those pictures .

Forgive me. 

I thought that Arafat was a child molester.  If you say he isn't, I have to believe you. 

Anyhow, I've been told not to even question your knowledge, Dexter.

[Dexter]

Dexter is certainly guilty of forcing that hideous, up-close photograph of that child molesting, murderous serpent down our throats.

I almost lost my lunch!

molesting ?
anyway, i'll remove those pictures .

Forgive me. 

I thought that Arafat was a child molester.  If you say he isn't, I have to believe you. 

Anyhow, I've been told not to even question your knowledge, Dexter.

Now that's a laugh, you are so funny Scriabin, infact, you should be this forum's comedian .

[Joe Schmo]

Dexter is certainly guilty of forcing that hideous, up-close photograph of that child molesting, murderous serpent down our throats.

I almost lost my lunch!

molesting ?
anyway, i'll remove those pictures .

Forgive me. 

I thought that Arafat was a child molester.  If you say he isn't, I have to believe you. 

Anyhow, I've been told not to even question your knowledge, Dexter.

Now that's a laugh, you are so funny Scriabin, infact, you should be this forum's comedian .

Thank you, but that's Newman.  You said it, "Molesting?"

You're pretty funny yourself.   

[dawntreader]

Ok can we stop. Chaim has said last week that he doesnt like this and that it embarrasses the forum. Me and dexter did not want to respond but we must uphold jewish values and defend our religion. Their is no reason to continue.

Yes, I think we should all stop. This is not helpful. I doubt that my misgivings about the way people talk on here will really change anything anyways.

However, Downwithislam should know that I happen to be Jewish. I'm Israeli even. (born and raised in the USA though). I have Jewish values. Just because I don't hold to the Torah She'Baal Peh does not mean I'm not Jewish. I think I have valid reasons for not following the Oral Law.

And when other Jews, on this forum, make it seem as if theirs is the only "right" way...it tends to upset me. Because I know, that pretty much 80% of the time, those that seem to think theirs is the only right way...are following tradition without taking the time to really research things, or think things through.

I personally hate it when people, Jews, Christians...whoever, decide they believe something just because everyone else believes it...or just because Rabbi so and so, or Pastor so and so said something.

We all have minds of our own. If we actually used them, good things might happen.

But if you are going to listen to a particular Rabbi, didn't Rabbi Kahane say that those who cannot debate, defame?

So if anyone would care to take this off the list and debate me on the issue (Without being ugly, and without being insulting) I would be more than happy to.

But since our overall goals are the same...here at least, we should agree to disagree on this issue and there should be peace and unity among us.

P.S.

Thanks for letting me know I'm a genius Scriabin. LOL

[Dexter]

Ok can we stop. Chaim has said last week that he doesnt like this and that it embarrasses the forum. Me and dexter did not want to respond but we must uphold jewish values and defend our religion. Their is no reason to continue.

Yes, I think we should all stop. This is not helpful. I doubt that my misgivings about the way people talk on here will really change anything anyways.

However, Downwithislam should know that I happen to be Jewish. I'm Israeli even. (born and raised in the USA though). I have Jewish values. Just because I don't hold to the Torah She'Baal Peh does not mean I'm not Jewish. I think I have valid reasons for not following the Oral Law.

And when other Jews, on this forum, make it seem as if theirs is the only "right" way...it tends to upset me. Because I know, that pretty much 80% of the time, those that seem to think theirs is the only right way...are following tradition without taking the time to really research things, or think things through.

I personally hate it when people, Jews, Christians...whoever, decide they believe something just because everyone else believes it...or just because Rabbi so and so, or Pastor so and so said something.

We all have minds of our own. If we actually used them, good things might happen.

But if you are going to listen to a particular Rabbi, didn't Rabbi Kahane say that those who cannot debate, defame?

So if anyone would care to take this off the list and debate me on the issue (Without being ugly, and without being insulting) I would be more than happy to.

But since our overall goals are the same...here at least, we should agree to disagree on this issue and there should be peace and unity among us.

P.S.

Thanks for letting me know I'm a genius Scriabin. LOL

Are you Karati jew ?
I agree with you in 100%, that's why I ignor Scriabin's last post .

[Joe Schmo]

Ok can we stop. Chaim has said last week that he doesnt like this and that it embarrasses the forum. Me and dexter did not want to respond but we must uphold jewish values and defend our religion. Their is no reason to continue.

Yes, I think we should all stop. This is not helpful. I doubt that my misgivings about the way people talk on here will really change anything anyways.

However, Downwithislam should know that I happen to be Jewish. I'm Israeli even. (born and raised in the USA though). I have Jewish values. Just because I don't hold to the Torah She'Baal Peh does not mean I'm not Jewish. I think I have valid reasons for not following the Oral Law.

And when other Jews, on this forum, make it seem as if theirs is the only "right" way...it tends to upset me. Because I know, that pretty much 80% of the time, those that seem to think theirs is the only right way...are following tradition without taking the time to really research things, or think things through.

I personally hate it when people, Jews, Christians...whoever, decide they believe something just because everyone else believes it...or just because Rabbi so and so, or Pastor so and so said something.

We all have minds of our own. If we actually used them, good things might happen.

But if you are going to listen to a particular Rabbi, didn't Rabbi Kahane say that those who cannot debate, defame?

So if anyone would care to take this off the list and debate me on the issue (Without being ugly, and without being insulting) I would be more than happy to.

But since our overall goals are the same...here at least, we should agree to disagree on this issue and there should be peace and unity among us.

P.S.

Thanks for letting me know I'm a genius Scriabin. LOL

Are you Karati jew ?
I agree with you in 100%, that's why I ignor Scriabin's last post .

You're so funny, Dexter!

[Dexter]

Ok can we stop. Chaim has said last week that he doesnt like this and that it embarrasses the forum. Me and dexter did not want to respond but we must uphold jewish values and defend our religion. Their is no reason to continue.

Yes, I think we should all stop. This is not helpful. I doubt that my misgivings about the way people talk on here will really change anything anyways.

However, Downwithislam should know that I happen to be Jewish. I'm Israeli even. (born and raised in the USA though). I have Jewish values. Just because I don't hold to the Torah She'Baal Peh does not mean I'm not Jewish. I think I have valid reasons for not following the Oral Law.

And when other Jews, on this forum, make it seem as if theirs is the only "right" way...it tends to upset me. Because I know, that pretty much 80% of the time, those that seem to think theirs is the only right way...are following tradition without taking the time to really research things, or think things through.

I personally hate it when people, Jews, Christians...whoever, decide they believe something just because everyone else believes it...or just because Rabbi so and so, or Pastor so and so said something.

We all have minds of our own. If we actually used them, good things might happen.

But if you are going to listen to a particular Rabbi, didn't Rabbi Kahane say that those who cannot debate, defame?

So if anyone would care to take this off the list and debate me on the issue (Without being ugly, and without being insulting) I would be more than happy to.

But since our overall goals are the same...here at least, we should agree to disagree on this issue and there should be peace and unity among us.

P.S.

Thanks for letting me know I'm a genius Scriabin. LOL

Are you Karati jew ?
I agree with you in 100%, that's why I ignor Scriabin's last post .

You're so funny, Dexter!

I'm happy you are entertained .

[dawntreader]

Are you Karati jew ?
I agree with you in 100%, that's why I ignor Scriabin's last post .

Did you mean a Karaite Jew?

No I am not. I am Conservative. BUT! Even though the Conservative movement accepts the Torah She'Baal Peh, I personally have problems with aspects of it.

I believe it is a valuable body of work. But I don't believe it came from HaShem to Moshe at the same time as the Torah She'Bichsav.

As I mentioned earlier, if it had come directly from HaShem to Moshe...why then does it have multiple opinions? As I said earlier, is G-d not of one mind?  And again...sometimes the Oral Law in an opinion says "others say"....

Who are these "Others?"

Did G-d have a discussion with other gods or something before giving the Oral Law to Moshe?

No. Because in the Tanach, in Yeshiyah 45:5-6 it says:

    I am HaShem, and there is none else, beside Me there is no G-d; I have girded thee, though thou hast not known Me;
6
    That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me; I am HaShem; and there is none else;
7

If there are no other gods etc., to whom are these "other" opinions which HaShem supposedly handed down to Moshe acredited?

There is a fundamental flaw here. That's why I don't personally follow the Oral Law as if it came from HaShem himself.

[Dexter]

Well, Chazal using the next quotes to proove that Ha Torah sheBe Al-Pe does exist :

Leviticus
26:46 These are the statutes, regulations, and instructions which the Lord established between himself and the Israelites at Mount Sinai through Moses.

Deuteronomy
31:1 Then Moses went and spoke these words to all Israel

And it also impossible to know how to do some laws because in the Torah you don't have enough details, so there must be Torah sheBe Al-Pe that says how to do some laws .

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

1- I really bothers me that people here are posting on Shabb-t.
2- the only reason that their are different opinions in Torah Shebal Pe is becuase a lot of the knowledge of the DETAILS of the laws has been lost. The laws themselves are uniform , ex- you have to keep the Shabb-t, etc. But their are disagreements on some details, becuase Jews have lost some of the details of the laws, so Chachamim who study then make a legal decision to what appears to be the best option.
 - If you dont belive in Torah Shebaal Pe then how do you know to keep any of the laws. What do you do when it talks about putting Tefillin between you eyes and on your arm? do you do it at all? do you literally put it between your eyes, what shape etc. etc.

[Joe Schmo]

1- I really bothers me that people here are posting on Shabb-t.
2- the only reason that their are different opinions in Torah Shebal Pe is becuase a lot of the knowledge of the DETAILS of the laws has been lost. The laws themselves are uniform , ex- you have to keep the Shabb-t, etc. But their are disagreements on some details, becuase Jews have lost some of the details of the laws, so Chachamim who study then make a legal decision to what appears to be the best option.
 - If you dont belive in Torah Shebaal Pe then how do you know to keep any of the laws. What do you do when it talks about putting Tefillin between you eyes and on your arm? do you do it at all? do you literally put it between your eyes, what shape etc. etc.

I'm a non-Jew.

[dawntreader]

I am a Jew. But I'm not Orthodox by any means. Posting on Shabbat does not hurt HaShem's feelings I don't think.

Besides, the whole idea of not writing two letters on shabbat?

I disagree with it. I won't say more out of respect for those who hold that sort of thing sacred. I just personally don't think it has anything to do with keeping Shabbat.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I am a Jew. But I'm not Orthodox by any means. Posting on Shabbat does not hurt HaShem's feelings I don't think.

Besides, the whole idea of not writing two letters on shabbat?

I disagree with it. I won't say more out of respect for those who hold that sort of thing sacred. I just personally don't think it has anything to do with keeping Shabbat.

 How would you know what hurts Hashe-m or not? G-d told the Jews to keep Shabb-t, it is THE mitzva which makes a Jew really a Jew.
"I dont think" - theirs your problem- How do you expect to understand G-d's laws and ideas threw your (my included) limited understanding of things? (of course we learn and try to keep the crumbs of different ideas) But still you should follow what G-d has ordered you to.
 - You have to understand the importance of Shabb-t and that a Jew who intentionally breaks it is subject to the death penalty. (of course everone Jew should be given the benifit of the doubt and repent), but seriously is going on the computer, or watching telivision worth doing then keeping the Holy Shabb-t? By Jews Keeping the Shabb-t soo much blessing will await them in this and the next World. 
- Some Rabbis ( I heard Rav Mizrahi) say that if a Jew doesnt keep the Shabb-t he is like a goy, maybe even worse because a goy wont get judged for breaking the Shabb-t or eatin non-kosher but a Jew will.

[newman]

I am a Jew. But I'm not Orthodox by any means. Posting on Shabbat does not hurt HaShem's feelings I don't think.

Besides, the whole idea of not writing two letters on shabbat?

I disagree with it. I won't say more out of respect for those who hold that sort of thing sacred. I just personally don't think it has anything to do with keeping Shabbat.

 How would you know what hurts Hashe-m or not? G-d told the Jews to keep Shabb-t, it is THE mitzva which makes a Jew really a Jew.
"I dont think" - theirs your problem- How do you expect to understand G-d's laws and ideas threw your (my included) limited understanding of things? (of course we learn and try to keep the crumbs of different ideas) But still you should follow what G-d has ordered you to.
 - You have to understand the importance of Shabb-t and that a Jew who intentionally breaks it is subject to the death penalty. (of course everone Jew should be given the benifit of the doubt and repent), but seriously is going on the computer, or watching telivision worth doing then keeping the Holy Shabb-t? By Jews Keeping the Shabb-t soo much blessing will await them in this and the next World. 
- Some Rabbis ( I heard Rav Mizrahi) say that if a Jew doesnt keep the Shabb-t he is like a goy, maybe even worse because a goy wont get judged for breaking the Shabb-t or eatin non-kosher but a Jew will.

This is the thin end of the wedge. Next thing is he can't understand why he can't eat bacon, or shrimp, or have to wear a hat.............the next thing is kissing a cross!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

maybe you should learn some real Torah Judaism (and not conservative or other alien philosophies and ideologies) and then see where you go with it.

http://www.torahanytime.com/recent_lectures.html
and
http://divineinformation.com/downloads/default.asp

- tell me which lecture you have listined to and what you think.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I am a Jew. But I'm not Orthodox by any means. Posting on Shabbat does not hurt HaShem's feelings I don't think.

Besides, the whole idea of not writing two letters on shabbat?

I disagree with it. I won't say more out of respect for those who hold that sort of thing sacred. I just personally don't think it has anything to do with keeping Shabbat.

 How would you know what hurts Hashe-m or not? G-d told the Jews to keep Shabb-t, it is THE mitzva which makes a Jew really a Jew.
"I dont think" - theirs your problem- How do you expect to understand G-d's laws and ideas threw your (my included) limited understanding of things? (of course we learn and try to keep the crumbs of different ideas) But still you should follow what G-d has ordered you to.
 - You have to understand the importance of Shabb-t and that a Jew who intentionally breaks it is subject to the death penalty. (of course everone Jew should be given the benifit of the doubt and repent), but seriously is going on the computer, or watching telivision worth doing then keeping the Holy Shabb-t? By Jews Keeping the Shabb-t soo much blessing will await them in this and the next World. 
- Some Rabbis ( I heard Rav Mizrahi) say that if a Jew doesnt keep the Shabb-t he is like a goy, maybe even worse because a goy wont get judged for breaking the Shabb-t or eatin non-kosher but a Jew will.

This is the thin end of the wedge. Next thing is he can't understand why he can't eat bacon, or shrimp, or have to wear a hat.............the next thing is kissing a cross!

Breaking Shabb-t is worse then eating bacon, or shrimp , - even worse then kissing a cross (a cross isn't an idol thats why a Jewish jeweler is allowed to make and sell them). , but breaking Shabb-t is a very grave sin that G-d warns over and over.

one who breaks Shabb-t is worse than a murderer (G-d have mercy). Someone who breaks Shabb-t (if hes known) cant have an Aliya to the Torah, cant be counted as part of a minyan and other things. But it doesnt say that even about a murderer.

[Joe Schmo]

Breaking Shabb-t is worse then eating bacon, or shrimp , - even worse then kissing a cross (a cross isn't an idol thats why a Jewish jeweler is allowed to make and sell them). , but breaking Shabb-t is a very grave sin that G-d warns over and over.

one who breaks Shabb-t is worse than a murderer (G-d have mercy). Someone who breaks Shabb-t (if hes known) cant have an Aliya to the Torah, cant be counted as part of a minyan and other things. But it doesnt say that even about a murderer.

Really?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Breaking Shabb-t is worse then eating bacon, or shrimp , - even worse then kissing a cross (a cross isn't an idol thats why a Jewish jeweler is allowed to make and sell them). , but breaking Shabb-t is a very grave sin that G-d warns over and over.

one who breaks Shabb-t is worse than a murderer (G-d have mercy). Someone who breaks Shabb-t (if hes known) cant have an Aliya to the Torah, cant be counted as part of a minyan and other things. But it doesnt say that even about a murderer.

Really?

YES.

[dawntreader]

Ah, but I am not breaking Shabbat.

When typing, one is not "writing". Nowhere have I physically written two letters on Shabbat.

This is why it is also permissable to erase G-d's name when typing on the computer. In fact, when deleting G-d's name from a computer screen, it seems that in fact nothing is being written or erased (except for electromagnetic impulses). Actually, when you display Torah on your screen you are actually erasing and rewriting it 50 (or 60) times a second. So when you erase it or shut your screen off, you are not doing anything worse than you have just done thousand of times in the last few minutes. Nevertheless, many people hyphenate G-d on a computer, as a sign of respect, to show that a reference to G-d is being made.

So if I type something, I actually have not "written" anything either. Thus I have not broken Shabbat.

Newman, you're being just a touch insulting here. Nowhere am I claiming that a Jew should not keep Shabbat. I am saying that the rules the Orthodox SAY are correct...are not necessarily truly correct. Nowhere did I say that I eat bacon (I don't), I have never kissed a Cross. My goodness. (What, I should go and kiss an instrument of death, something like an electric chair too?)

Also, I am not working on Shabbat. Watching Television is not breaking Shabbat. What kind of craziness is this?

Tzvi, you are being a touch over-zealous here. If, G-d forbid I am really breaking the Shabbat then maybe He will show me. I am open to hearing truth. I'm open to listening and researching for myself.

But no one, and nothing shall convince me that I am just because someone points in horror and says so. Prove it to me and I will repent. Otherwise? It's just a lot of hoopla.


P.S.

Tzvi, I will listen to both lectures you presented and let you know what I think.

[jdl4ever]

Writing on a computer is not considered writing I think, but turning on the computer monitor is violating the biblical prohibition of starting fires on Sabbath since the monitor is powered by a high voltage electron beam, which comes from superheated metal being atomized.  Even if you use a LCD monitor, the indicator lights on the monitor and on the computer are considered like little candles, and the flourescent bulb powering the LCD monitor is questionable if it is like starting a fire or not, probably not.  Similarly, the motor used to cool the CPU and the computer case may possibly be considered starting a fire since brush motors make lots of sparks by the metal brush design.